On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 13:02:55 -0500, Michelle Bottorff
<mbottorff@lshelby.com> wrote in
<news:1i9bihk.1kobg5a15o8sooN%mbottorff@lshelby.com> in
rec.arts.sf.composition:

> I seem to recall Patricia saying here recently something roughly
> equivalent to: the problem with the advice to 'kill your darlings' is
> that sometimes the reason a writer likes a passage is because it works
> really really well.

> I thought it might make a good addition my brand new
> quotations file, but I can't find via google.

> It it because my google fu is weak, or did I just imagine it?

The closest that I've found was actually written by Mary
Gentle:

Sometimes they're your darlings because they _work_.

You can't always assume that just because you like
something, it has to go. First, it has to be the case
that it's a non-functional darling...

<http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.sf.composition/msg/90bf6f9cc4b67f3f>

Patricia responded:

Mary's got it dead on. The trouble *some* folks have is
that if they love something, they can't *tell* whether it
works or not, but that's a different problem, and it's
*still* no excuse for rampaging through a manuscript
cutting out all your favorite bits simply because you
like them.

<http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.sf.composition/msg/52f7ab1b90ec23f5>

Patricia, in another thread:

"Murder your darlings" isn't intended as a diagnostic
tool -- "if I like this, it must go." It's intended as a
*reminder* for when you're *resisting* getting rid of
something because you like it so much.

<http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.sf.composition/msg/4c8fad87fc26d986>

Brian

Brian M. Scott <b.scott@csuohio.edu> wrote:

> > It it because my google fu is weak, or did I just imagine it?
>
> The closest that I've found was actually written by Mary
> Gentle:

Yes, I found those two. Google is apparently being consistent.

But I was specifically looking for something that was posted last month
or thereabouts, because I *remembered* it, and no matter what I did, I
could not get it to turn up. It was a bit scary.


On a tangent...

I've discovered that finding good quotes for something like my random
quote generator is *hard*, because I need them to be fairly short, and
yet to work completely out of context.

The Mary Gentle quote is wonderfully to the point and pithy, but if
nobody has brought up the subject of writers "murdering one's darlings"
I don't think it carries itself.

The last half of Patricia's is *marvelous* I wish I could use it, but it
needs a beginning that stands on it's own, rather than one that
references the two previous posts.

In culling quotes from my own books I have similar problems.

There was, IIRC, someone commenting about this in the Miles to Go forum
over at Baen's Bar a while back. How lots of peoples' favorite Bujold
quotes were favorites only because they had read the book and remembered
the stuff that was around the line that made it work so well, and that
finding lines that truly stood on their own was a lot harder.


I suspect it's a not good idea to try to purposely write so that you can
pull quotes out afterward though.


(Although Prince Asond seems talk that way naturally. Almost every
time he opens his mouth something pithy, self-contained, and snarky pops
out of it. He'd take over my quote file if I let him.)




--
Michelle Bottorff -> Chelle B. -> Shelby
L. Shelby, Writer http://www.lshelby.com/
Livejournal http://lavenderbard.livejournal.com/
rec.arts.sf.composition FAQ http://www.lshelby.com/rasfcFAQ.html

On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 21:04:53 -0500, Michelle Bottorff
<mbottorff@lshelby.com> wrote in
<news:1i9dwky.1c065cv1fjbdmoN%mbottorff@lshelby.com> in
rec.arts.sf.composition:

> Brian M. Scott <b.scott@csuohio.edu> wrote:

>>> It it because my google fu is weak, or did I just imagine it?

>> The closest that I've found was actually written by Mary
>> Gentle:

> Yes, I found those two. Google is apparently being consistent.

> But I was specifically looking for something that was posted last month
> or thereabouts, because I *remembered* it, and no matter what I did, I
> could not get it to turn up. It was a bit scary.

Any rasfc post that news.individual.net had in the last two
months or so is still sitting on my computer; in that period
Patricia hasn't made a post that contains the string
'darling'

[...]

Brian

Brian M. Scott <b.scott@csuohio.edu> wrote:

> > But I was specifically looking for something that was posted last month
> > or thereabouts, because I *remembered* it, and no matter what I did, I
> > could not get it to turn up. It was a bit scary.
>
> Any rasfc post that news.individual.net had in the last two
> months or so is still sitting on my computer; in that period
> Patricia hasn't made a post that contains the string
> 'darling'

But Marilee also remembers her saying it.

So I have to assume that either she used diffrent words, or that it was
longer ago than I thought.
Both are likely.

If she used different words, which words might she have used?

--
Michelle Bottorff -> Chelle B. -> Shelby
L. Shelby, Writer http://www.lshelby.com/
Livejournal http://lavenderbard.livejournal.com/
rec.arts.sf.composition FAQ http://www.lshelby.com/rasfcFAQ.html

On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 16:27:05 -0500, Michelle Bottorff
<mbottorff@lshelby.com> wrote in
<news:1i9fgrh.xgd1qln1do3kN%mbottorff@lshelby.com> in
rec.arts.sf.composition:

> Brian M. Scott <b.scott@csuohio.edu> wrote:

>>> But I was specifically looking for something that was posted last month
>>> or thereabouts, because I *remembered* it, and no matter what I did, I
>>> could not get it to turn up. It was a bit scary.

>> Any rasfc post that news.individual.net had in the last two
>> months or so is still sitting on my computer; in that period
>> Patricia hasn't made a post that contains the string
>> 'darling'

> But Marilee also remembers her saying it.

> So I have to assume that either she used diffrent words, or that it was
> longer ago than I thought.

It may be both, but it's definitely the latter: I just went
through all of her posts that are still on my computer.

[...]

Brian

On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 16:27:05 -0500, mbottorff@lshelby.com (Michelle
Bottorff) wrote:

>Brian M. Scott <b.scott@csuohio.edu> wrote:
>
>> > But I was specifically looking for something that was posted last month
>> > or thereabouts, because I *remembered* it, and no matter what I did, I
>> > could not get it to turn up. It was a bit scary.
>>
>> Any rasfc post that news.individual.net had in the last two
>> months or so is still sitting on my computer; in that period
>> Patricia hasn't made a post that contains the string
>> 'darling'
>
>But Marilee also remembers her saying it.

Oh, not those specific words, but the equivalent.

>So I have to assume that either she used diffrent words, or that it was
>longer ago than I thought.
>Both are likely.
>
>If she used different words, which words might she have used?
--
Marilee J. Layman
http://mjlayman.livejournal.com

Marilee J. Layman <marilee@mjlayman.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 16:27:05 -0500, mbottorff@lshelby.com (Michelle
> Bottorff) wrote:
>
> >Brian M. Scott <b.scott@csuohio.edu> wrote:
> >
> >> > But I was specifically looking for something that was posted last month
> >> > or thereabouts, because I *remembered* it, and no matter what I did, I
> >> > could not get it to turn up. It was a bit scary.
> >>
> >> Any rasfc post that news.individual.net had in the last two
> >> months or so is still sitting on my computer; in that period
> >> Patricia hasn't made a post that contains the string
> >> 'darling'
> >
> >But Marilee also remembers her saying it.
>
> Oh, not those specific words, but the equivalent.

If I could remember the specific words, I wouldn't need to look up the
message, I could just transcribe the quote directly from memory.

I've always had the sneaking suspicion that finding things in the
archive took either a better memory for specific words than I have, or
more skill at coming up with alternatives until one hits on the right
one.

--
Michelle Bottorff -> Chelle B. -> Shelby
L. Shelby, Writer http://www.lshelby.com/
Livejournal http://lavenderbard.livejournal.com/
rec.arts.sf.composition FAQ http://www.lshelby.com/rasfcFAQ.html