On 2007-12-18, Michael Alan Chary <mchary@panix.com> wrote:
> In article <slrnfmg2sg.3ml.jeremy@usenet.dc.dc.cox.net>,
> Jeremy Billones <jbillones@gmail.com> wrote:

>>I was never wondering if, I was just wondering "which one", though the
>>credits kind of tipped it.
>
> How, I confess I don't pay attention to the credits.

As I recall, they go

Lee Pace
Anna Friel
Chi McBride
Kristin Chenoweth
Jim Dale
Ellen Greene
"and Swoosie Kurtz"

Regardless of how good Swoosie Kurtz' agent is, when her character and
Ellen Greene's character are basically equivalent, but Ellen gets billed
last and she gets the "and", something's fishy.

--
Jeremy Billones

In article <slrnfmiu10.dmh.jeremy@usenet.dc.dc.cox.net>,
Jeremy Billones <jbillones@gmail.com> wrote:
>Regardless of how good Swoosie Kurtz' agent is, when her character and
>Ellen Greene's character are basically equivalent, but Ellen gets billed
>last and she gets the "and", something's fishy.

Yes -- she would have negotiated for that. As it is, her name stands out more
than it would have otherwise.

Jeremy Billones <jbillones@gmail.com> wrote:

>>> I was never wondering if, I was just wondering "which one",
>>> though the credits kind of tipped it.
>>
>> How, I confess I don't pay attention to the credits.
>
> As I recall, they go
>
> Lee Pace
> Anna Friel
> Chi McBride
> Kristin Chenoweth
> Jim Dale
> Ellen Greene
> "and Swoosie Kurtz"
>
> Regardless of how good Swoosie Kurtz' agent is, when her character
> and Ellen Greene's character are basically equivalent, but Ellen
> gets billed last and she gets the "and", something's fishy.

No, there's nothing fishy. It's an indication that in the TV world,
Swoosie Kurtz's name means more than Ellen Greene's. At the very
least, Kurtz is known to TV audiences from seven seasons of SISTERS.
Has Greene done anything equivalent to that on TV?

It has everything to do with the actors, and little to do with
the significance of the characters.

-- jayembee

In article <slrnfmiu10.dmh.jeremy@usenet.dc.dc.cox.net>,
Jeremy Billones <jbillones@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 2007-12-18, Michael Alan Chary <mchary@panix.com> wrote:
>> In article <slrnfmg2sg.3ml.jeremy@usenet.dc.dc.cox.net>,
>> Jeremy Billones <jbillones@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>I was never wondering if, I was just wondering "which one", though the
>>>credits kind of tipped it.
>>
>> How, I confess I don't pay attention to the credits.
>
>As I recall, they go
>
>Lee Pace
>Anna Friel
>Chi McBride
>Kristin Chenoweth
>Jim Dale
>Ellen Greene
>"and Swoosie Kurtz"
>
>Regardless of how good Swoosie Kurtz' agent is, when her character and
>Ellen Greene's character are basically equivalent, but Ellen gets billed
>last and she gets the "and", something's fishy.


They aren't equivalent. Ellen Greene has the musical numbers...

But nah, Swoozie Kurtz is an established tv star, and that's where the
"and" comes from.
--
The All-New, All-Different Howling Curmudgeons!
http://www.whiterose.org/howlingcurmudgeons

Michael Alan Chary wrote:
> In article <slrnfmiu10.dmh.jeremy@usenet.dc.dc.cox.net>,
> Jeremy Billones <jbillones@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On 2007-12-18, Michael Alan Chary <mchary@panix.com> wrote:
>>
>>>In article <slrnfmg2sg.3ml.jeremy@usenet.dc.dc.cox.net>,
>>>Jeremy Billones <jbillones@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>I was never wondering if, I was just wondering "which one", though the
>>>>credits kind of tipped it.
>>>
>>>How, I confess I don't pay attention to the credits.
>>
>>As I recall, they go
>>
>>Lee Pace
>>Anna Friel
>>Chi McBride
>>Kristin Chenoweth
>>Jim Dale
>>Ellen Greene
>>"and Swoosie Kurtz"
>>
>>Regardless of how good Swoosie Kurtz' agent is, when her character and
>>Ellen Greene's character are basically equivalent, but Ellen gets billed
>>last and she gets the "and", something's fishy.
>
>
>
> They aren't equivalent. Ellen Greene has the musical numbers...
>
> But nah, Swoozie Kurtz is an established tv star, and that's where the
> "and" comes from.

From what I understand, it is considered the second-most important
position,
next to the star billing, and it is something that is negotiated when the
actor is being wooed to sign that contract.

Alane

Alane wrote:
> Michael Alan Chary wrote:
>> In article <slrnfmiu10.dmh.jeremy@usenet.dc.dc.cox.net>,
>> Jeremy Billones <jbillones@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2007-12-18, Michael Alan Chary <mchary@panix.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <slrnfmg2sg.3ml.jeremy@usenet.dc.dc.cox.net>,
>>>> Jeremy Billones <jbillones@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I was never wondering if, I was just wondering "which one", though the
>>>>> credits kind of tipped it.
>>>> How, I confess I don't pay attention to the credits.
>>> As I recall, they go
>>>
>>> Lee Pace
>>> Anna Friel
>>> Chi McBride
>>> Kristin Chenoweth
>>> Jim Dale
>>> Ellen Greene
>>> "and Swoosie Kurtz"
>>>
>>> Regardless of how good Swoosie Kurtz' agent is, when her character and
>>> Ellen Greene's character are basically equivalent, but Ellen gets billed
>>> last and she gets the "and", something's fishy.
>>
>>
>> They aren't equivalent. Ellen Greene has the musical numbers...
>>
>> But nah, Swoozie Kurtz is an established tv star, and that's where the
>> "and" comes from.
>
> From what I understand, it is considered the second-most important
> position,
> next to the star billing, and it is something that is negotiated when the
> actor is being wooed to sign that contract.

Sort of like `and featuring...' it shows someone special.

On 2007-12-19, Michael Alan Chary <mchary@panix.com> wrote:
> In article <slrnfmiu10.dmh.jeremy@usenet.dc.dc.cox.net>,
> Jeremy Billones <jbillones@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On 2007-12-18, Michael Alan Chary <mchary@panix.com> wrote:
>>> In article <slrnfmg2sg.3ml.jeremy@usenet.dc.dc.cox.net>,
>>> Jeremy Billones <jbillones@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>I was never wondering if, I was just wondering "which one", though the
>>>>credits kind of tipped it.
>>>
>>> How, I confess I don't pay attention to the credits.
>>
>>As I recall, they go
>>
>>Lee Pace
>>Anna Friel
>>Chi McBride
>>Kristin Chenoweth
>>Jim Dale
>>Ellen Greene
>>"and Swoosie Kurtz"
>>
>>Regardless of how good Swoosie Kurtz' agent is, when her character and
>>Ellen Greene's character are basically equivalent, but Ellen gets billed
>>last and she gets the "and", something's fishy.
>
>
> They aren't equivalent. Ellen Greene has the musical numbers...
>
> But nah, Swoozie Kurtz is an established tv star, and that's where the
> "and" comes from.

Oh, certainly. But I think you and jayembee might be misinterpreting my
thought processes.

If you bring in Ellen and Swoosie, obviously* Swoosie gets an "and" and
Ellen doesn't. But why do you then bring them in for what amounts to the
same role? In an ideal world, it would be because they were the right
actresses for the roles, and one just happened to be a bigger deal than
the other, but that doesn't usually happen. What's more likely is
that the characters *aren't* equal, that one of them is more important
than the other, so you would cast a "bigger" actress in the more
prominent role.

* Though if I were Ellen Green, I'd be more upset that my agent couldn't
score a "with Ellen Green and Swoozie Kurtz" credit. I mean really.

--
Jeremy Billones

In article <slrnfmkvvj.bg5.jeremy@usenet.dc.dc.cox.net>,
Jeremy Billones <jbillones@gmail.com> wrote:

> * Though if I were Ellen Green, I'd be more upset that my agent couldn't
> score a "with Ellen Green and Swoozie Kurtz" credit. I mean really.

I suspect that in many cases the "and" credit is negotiated in lieu of
additional payments. So Ellen might want the cash rather than the fancy
credit, whereas Swoosie has enough "Sisters" money in the bank that she
was willing to go with the ego boost.

--
Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE don't copy me on replies, I'll read them in the group ***