In article <1197986499snz@deltrak.demon.co.uk>,
ames@deltrak.demon.co.uk (Andrew Stephenson) said:

> And how well, I wonder, would the average street-USian of today
> take to the culture and technologies of 1920s America?

The Wiki entry on the Ford Model T says things like:

Before starting a Model T with the hand crank, the spark had to be
manually ******ed or the engine might "kick back". The crank handle was
cupped in the palm, rather than grabbed with the thumb over the top of
the handle, so that if the engine did kick back, the rapid reverse
motion of the crank would throw the hand away from the handle, rather
than violently twisting the wrist or breaking the thumb. Most Model T
Fords had the choke operated by a wire emerging from the bottom of the
radiator where it could be operated with the left hand while cranking
the engine with the right hand.

and

The Model T was a rear-wheel drive vehicle. Its transmission was a
planetary gear type billed as "three speed". By today's standards it
would be considered a two speed, since one of the three speeds was
actually reverse.

The Model T's transmission was controlled with three foot pedals and a
lever that was mounted to the left of the driver's seat. The throttle
was controlled with a lever on the steering wheel. The left pedal was
used to engage the gear. When pressed and held forward the car entered
low gear. When held in an intermediate position the car was in neutral,
a state that could also be achieved by pulling the floor-mounted lever
to an upright position. If the lever was pushed forward and the driver
took their foot off the left pedal, the Model T entered high gear. The
car could thus cruise without the driver having to press any of the
pedals. There was no separate clutch pedal, so the Model T was somewhat
like a modern automatic transmission vehicle to drive.

The middle pedal was used to engage reverse gear, and the right pedal
operated the engine brake. The floor lever also controlled the parking
brake, which was activated by pulling the lever all the way back. This
doubled as an emergency brake.

Hell, I pride myself on driving a *real* car -- i.e., one with a
manual transmission -- but having to deal with all that would have
me choosing to walk a lot.

--
William December Starr <wdstarr@panix.com>

In article <fkae15$l8e$1@panix2.panix.com>,
William December Starr <wdstarr@panix.com> wrote:
>
> Before starting a Model T with the hand crank, the spark had to be
> manually ******ed or the engine might "kick back".....

[many details snipped]

>Hell, I pride myself on driving a *real* car -- i.e., one with a
>manual transmission -- but having to deal with all that would have
>me choosing to walk a lot.

The BBC's _The Nine Tailors_ has a lovely scene, a little
earlier, right at the beginning of WWI. The burglar is fleeing
the scene, with Lt. Wimsey in hot pursuit. The burglar leaps the
wall and ... spends what seems like forever cranking up his car
and getting it moving. He finally gets it started and begins
rumbling off, just as Ld. Peter arrives on the scene. He, too,
has to start his car, but it's a Mercedes or a Daimler or
something, and "goes like gee-whiz," and it takes him only maybe
fifteen seconds to get started. Reminds me of the old joke about
the day it was so hot, there was a coyote chasing a rabbit and
they were both walking.

Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
djheydt@kithrup.com

In article <fkae15$l8e$1@panix2.panix.com>,
William December Starr <wdstarr@panix.com> wrote:
>
>
>In article <1197986499snz@deltrak.demon.co.uk>,
>ames@deltrak.demon.co.uk (Andrew Stephenson) said:
>
>> And how well, I wonder, would the average street-USian of today
>> take to the culture and technologies of 1920s America?
>
>The Wiki entry on the Ford Model T says things like:
>
> Before starting a Model T with the hand crank, the spark had to be
> manually ******ed or the engine might "kick back". The crank handle was
> cupped in the palm, rather than grabbed with the thumb over the top of
> the handle, so that if the engine did kick back, the rapid reverse
> motion of the crank would throw the hand away from the handle, rather
> than violently twisting the wrist or breaking the thumb. Most Model T
> Fords had the choke operated by a wire emerging from the bottom of the
> radiator where it could be operated with the left hand while cranking
> the engine with the right hand.
>
>and
>
> The Model T was a rear-wheel drive vehicle. Its transmission was a
> planetary gear type billed as "three speed". By today's standards it
> would be considered a two speed, since one of the three speeds was
> actually reverse.
>
> The Model T's transmission was controlled with three foot pedals and a
> lever that was mounted to the left of the driver's seat. The throttle
> was controlled with a lever on the steering wheel. The left pedal was
> used to engage the gear. When pressed and held forward the car entered
> low gear. When held in an intermediate position the car was in neutral,
> a state that could also be achieved by pulling the floor-mounted lever
> to an upright position. If the lever was pushed forward and the driver
> took their foot off the left pedal, the Model T entered high gear. The
> car could thus cruise without the driver having to press any of the
> pedals. There was no separate clutch pedal, so the Model T was somewhat
> like a modern automatic transmission vehicle to drive.
>
> The middle pedal was used to engage reverse gear, and the right pedal
> operated the engine brake. The floor lever also controlled the parking
> brake, which was activated by pulling the lever all the way back. This
> doubled as an emergency brake.
>
>Hell, I pride myself on driving a *real* car -- i.e., one with a
>manual transmission -- but having to deal with all that would have
>me choosing to walk a lot.
>
>--
>William December Starr <wdstarr@panix.com>

Harry Turtledove riffs on this in one of his USA/CSA books, where some
of the above is described. I forget the exact circumstances, but I believe
it is one of the male characters, who knows only Fords, being surprised that
a woman could operate a car (not a Ford).

The bit about kickback was common enough that such a wrist break was called
a 'Ford Fracture'. Even back in the day, Model Ts were an object of
some (sometimes good-natured, sometimes not) derision. In the house of
one of my aunts (born 1905) I found a book of Ford jokes from about 1916.
I don't have it with me, but these are approximately how some of them went:

Q: Why will all new Fords be red instead of black?
A: Because the law says that any tin can containing gasolene must be
painted red.

Q: Why is a Ford the only automobile mentioned in the Bible?
A: Because no other can 'ascend to Heaven on High'.

A farmer was renting out a pasture for ball game parking. A Ford driver,
thinking that parking was free, parked his car and walked away. The farmer
ran after him yelling "50 cents! 50 cents!". "Sold!" said the Ford owner.



Ted

On 19 Dec 2007 01:34:13 -0500, wdstarr@panix.com (William December
Starr) wrote:

> The middle pedal was used to engage reverse gear, and the right pedal
> operated the engine brake. The floor lever also controlled the parking
> brake, which was activated by pulling the lever all the way back. This
> doubled as an emergency brake.
>
>Hell, I pride myself on driving a *real* car -- i.e., one with a
>manual transmission -- but having to deal with all that would have
>me choosing to walk a lot.

Yeah. I attended an antique car show a few years back where they had
a competition to see how fast teams could assemble a Model T from
parts, and drive it away. (The winning time was something like
fourteen minutes.) I had a front-row spot and got a good look at how
that damned thing worked.

I marvel that those were ever popular, given what a bitch they were to
operate. I think driving it was harder than putting it together.




--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
The sixth issue of Helix is at http://www.helixsf.com

On 19 Dec 2007 01:34:13 -0500, wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) wrote:

>In article <1197986499snz@deltrak.demon.co.uk>,
>ames@deltrak.demon.co.uk (Andrew Stephenson) said:
>
>> And how well, I wonder, would the average street-USian of today
>> take to the culture and technologies of 1920s America?
>
>The Wiki entry on the Ford Model T says things like:
>
> Before starting a Model T with the hand crank, the spark had to be
> manually ******ed or the engine might "kick back". The crank handle was
> cupped in the palm, rather than grabbed with the thumb over the top of
> the handle, so that if the engine did kick back, the rapid reverse
> motion of the crank would throw the hand away from the handle, rather
> than violently twisting the wrist or breaking the thumb. Most Model T
> Fords had the choke operated by a wire emerging from the bottom of the
> radiator where it could be operated with the left hand while cranking
> the engine with the right hand.
>
>and
>
> The Model T was a rear-wheel drive vehicle. Its transmission was a
> planetary gear type billed as "three speed". By today's standards it
> would be considered a two speed, since one of the three speeds was
> actually reverse.
>
> The Model T's transmission was controlled with three foot pedals and a
> lever that was mounted to the left of the driver's seat. The throttle
> was controlled with a lever on the steering wheel. The left pedal was
> used to engage the gear. When pressed and held forward the car entered
> low gear. When held in an intermediate position the car was in neutral,
> a state that could also be achieved by pulling the floor-mounted lever
> to an upright position. If the lever was pushed forward and the driver
> took their foot off the left pedal, the Model T entered high gear. The
> car could thus cruise without the driver having to press any of the
> pedals. There was no separate clutch pedal, so the Model T was somewhat
> like a modern automatic transmission vehicle to drive.
>
> The middle pedal was used to engage reverse gear, and the right pedal
> operated the engine brake. The floor lever also controlled the parking
> brake, which was activated by pulling the lever all the way back. This
> doubled as an emergency brake.
>
>Hell, I pride myself on driving a *real* car -- i.e., one with a
>manual transmission -- but having to deal with all that would have
>me choosing to walk a lot.

It also had quite a vibration. When I was a kid, in the early 40's, a family
friend still drove one. He was very deaf, and always said that it was the only
car that he could tell when the engine was running.

On 19 Dec 2007 01:34:13 -0500, William December Starr wrote:

> In article <1197986499snz@deltrak.demon.co.uk>,
> ames@deltrak.demon.co.uk (Andrew Stephenson) said:
>
>> And how well, I wonder, would the average street-USian of today
>> take to the culture and technologies of 1920s America?
>
> The Wiki entry on the Ford Model T says things like:
>
> Before starting a Model T with the hand crank, the spark had to be
> manually ******ed or the engine might "kick back". The crank handle was
> cupped in the palm, rather than grabbed with the thumb over the top of
> the handle, so that if the engine did kick back, the rapid reverse
> motion of the crank would throw the hand away from the handle, rather
> than violently twisting the wrist or breaking the thumb. Most Model T
> Fords had the choke operated by a wire emerging from the bottom of the
> radiator where it could be operated with the left hand while cranking
> the engine with the right hand.
>
> and
>
> The Model T was a rear-wheel drive vehicle. Its transmission was a
> planetary gear type billed as "three speed". By today's standards it
> would be considered a two speed, since one of the three speeds was
> actually reverse.
>
> The Model T's transmission was controlled with three foot pedals and a
> lever that was mounted to the left of the driver's seat. The throttle
> was controlled with a lever on the steering wheel. The left pedal was
> used to engage the gear. When pressed and held forward the car entered
> low gear. When held in an intermediate position the car was in neutral,
> a state that could also be achieved by pulling the floor-mounted lever
> to an upright position. If the lever was pushed forward and the driver
> took their foot off the left pedal, the Model T entered high gear. The
> car could thus cruise without the driver having to press any of the
> pedals. There was no separate clutch pedal, so the Model T was somewhat
> like a modern automatic transmission vehicle to drive.
>
> The middle pedal was used to engage reverse gear, and the right pedal
> operated the engine brake. The floor lever also controlled the parking
> brake, which was activated by pulling the lever all the way back. This
> doubled as an emergency brake.
>
> Hell, I pride myself on driving a *real* car -- i.e., one with a
> manual transmission -- but having to deal with all that would have
> me choosing to walk a lot.

Bah.

Approach the vehicle, which is sitting there with pedals up and lever
aft, i.e. in "neutral" (actually, no transmission bands engaged) and the
parking brake on. Set half throttle and ******ed spark. Go around front,
insert the crank in the hole, set the choke. Give the crank a couple of
brisk strokes, observing the precaution of /not/ wrapping your thumb
around the handle. When the engine starts, stow the handle (it is gauche
to leave the handle in place when the engine is running) and release the
choke.

Take the seat. Gradually move the spark lever to normal position, i.e.
toward advance until the now-warming engine speeds up a bit. Bring the
lever forward to the center position. Depress the center pedal. The
vehicle moves backwards out of the parking slot. When free of
obstructions, release the center pedal, depressing the right pedal as
necessary to kill unwanted momentum.

Press the left pedal. When the vehicle has gained some forward speed,
bring the lever forward and release the pedal. You are now in "cruise"
mode, with speed controlled by the throttle and spark levers. For
maximum speed, bring both to the forwardmost position.

To stop, press the left pedal and bring the lever back upright, then
release the pedal. Hold the vehicle on slopes, etc. using the right
pedal. It is good form to bring the engine back to idle at halts; note
that this requires ******ing the spark somewhat.

Child could do it (and did, quite often). Once learned it actually
requires a good deal less hand-eye coordination than "three on the
tree", let alone a multigear floor shift. The only real complexity
involved lay in manipulating the throttle and spark levers: essentially,
for any throttle position, advance the spark until the engine knocks,
then back it off slightly. If Ford had invented centrifugal advance and
vacuum ******, we might well be using the same system today.

Regards,
Ric

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

"William December Starr" <wdstarr@panix.com> wrote in message
news:fkae15$l8e$1@panix2.panix.com...
> In article <1197986499snz@deltrak.demon.co.uk>,
> ames@deltrak.demon.co.uk (Andrew Stephenson) said:
>
>> And how well, I wonder, would the average street-USian of today
>> take to the culture and technologies of 1920s America?
>
> The Wiki entry on the Ford Model T says things like:
>
> Before starting a Model T with the hand crank, the spark had to be
> manually ******ed or the engine might "kick back". The crank
> handle was
> cupped in the palm, rather than grabbed with the thumb over the
> top of
> the handle, so that if the engine did kick back, the rapid reverse
> motion of the crank would throw the hand away from the handle,
> rather
> than violently twisting the wrist or breaking the thumb. Most
> Model T
> Fords had the choke operated by a wire emerging from the bottom of
> the
> radiator where it could be operated with the left hand while
> cranking
> the engine with the right hand.

All lovingly described in the "Da Capo" section of _Time Enough for
Love_.

In article <1qcldajm7kn27$.xcq17mws7x68$.dlg@40tude.net>
warlocke@hyperusa.com "Ric Locke" writes:

> [...] When the engine starts, stow the handle (it is gauche to
> leave the handle in place when the engine is running) [...]

A gentleman would of course instruct his chauffeur accordingly.
A person of quality would engage staff who did not require such
instructions. A person of class would never suspect the handle
existed.
--
Andrew Stephenson

On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 13:40:05 GMT, ames@deltrak.demon.co.uk (Andrew
Stephenson) wrote:

>In article <1qcldajm7kn27$.xcq17mws7x68$.dlg@40tude.net>
> warlocke@hyperusa.com "Ric Locke" writes:
>
>> [...] When the engine starts, stow the handle (it is gauche to
>> leave the handle in place when the engine is running) [...]
>
>A gentleman would of course instruct his chauffeur accordingly.
>A person of quality would engage staff who did not require such
>instructions. A person of class would never suspect the handle
>existed.

They don't come pre-warmed? How extrordinary.

Regards,
Jack Tingle

In article <1198158005snz@deltrak.demon.co.uk>,
Andrew Stephenson <ames@deltrak.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <1qcldajm7kn27$.xcq17mws7x68$.dlg@40tude.net>
> warlocke@hyperusa.com "Ric Locke" writes:
>
>> [...] When the engine starts, stow the handle (it is gauche to
>> leave the handle in place when the engine is running) [...]
>
>A gentleman would of course instruct his chauffeur accordingly.
>A person of quality would engage staff who did not require such
>instructions. A person of class would never suspect the handle
>existed.

Except for e.g. Lord Peter Wimsey, who insisted on driving
himself, because he liked it. He did not employ a personal
mechanic, either, though he probably had one on retainer at the
local garage, whom we never saw in the stories because the
various Mesdames Merdle broke down so seldom.

Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
djheydt@kithrup.com

"Dorothy J Heydt" <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote in message
news:JtCyMC.87u@kithrup.com...
> In article <1198158005snz@deltrak.demon.co.uk>,
> Andrew Stephenson <ames@deltrak.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>In article <1qcldajm7kn27$.xcq17mws7x68$.dlg@40tude.net>
>> warlocke@hyperusa.com "Ric Locke" writes:
>>
>>> [...] When the engine starts, stow the handle (it is gauche to
>>> leave the handle in place when the engine is running) [...]
>>
>>A gentleman would of course instruct his chauffeur accordingly.
>>A person of quality would engage staff who did not require such
>>instructions. A person of class would never suspect the handle
>>existed.
>
> Except for e.g. Lord Peter Wimsey, who insisted on driving
> himself, because he liked it. He did not employ a personal
> mechanic, either, though he probably had one on retainer at the
> local garage, whom we never saw in the stories because the
> various Mesdames Merdle broke down so seldom.


Bertie Wooster would often drive himself too, even if Jeeves was along
for the ride.

In article <JtCyMC.87u@kithrup.com> djheydt@kithrup.com "Dorothy J Heydt" writes:

> In article <1198158005snz@deltrak.demon.co.uk>,
> Andrew Stephenson <ames@deltrak.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >In article <1qcldajm7kn27$.xcq17mws7x68$.dlg@40tude.net>
> > warlocke@hyperusa.com "Ric Locke" writes:
> >
> >> [...] When the engine starts, stow the handle (it is gauche to
> >> leave the handle in place when the engine is running) [...]
> >
> >A gentleman would of course instruct his chauffeur accordingly.
> >A person of quality would engage staff who did not require such
> >instructions. A person of class would never suspect the handle
> >existed.
>
> Except for e.g. Lord Peter Wimsey, who insisted on driving
> himself, because he liked it. He did not employ a personal
> mechanic, either, though he probably had one on retainer at the
> local garage, whom we never saw in the stories because the
> various Mesdames Merdle broke down so seldom.

OTOH, didn't Lord P consort with some very rough types, such as
his confidential gentleman, who IIRC had been anything but that
at an earlier stage in his life? Who knows what might rub off.

You bring to mind a happier era, when cars appearing in stories
knew their place and never presumed to intrude upon any plot by
crass malfunctioning. Those of Dornford Yates, Ian Fleming and
others... *sigh*
--
Andrew Stephenson

In article <1198158005snz@deltrak.demon.co.uk>,
ames@deltrak.demon.co.uk (Andrew Stephenson) wrote:

> In article <1qcldajm7kn27$.xcq17mws7x68$.dlg@40tude.net>
> warlocke@hyperusa.com "Ric Locke" writes:
>
> > [...] When the engine starts, stow the handle (it is gauche to
> > leave the handle in place when the engine is running) [...]
>
> A gentleman would of course instruct his chauffeur accordingly.
> A person of quality would engage staff who did not require such
> instructions. A person of class would never suspect the handle
> existed.

I don't think the people you describe would be driving Model T's.

And the higher end contemporary cars they would be driving at that time
might well represent a motoring enthusiasm, hence be driven and started
by the owner. Consider Peter Wimsey.

--
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/ http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/
Author of _Harald_, a fantasy without magic.
Published by Baen, in bookstores now

In article <lOxaj.80935$Um6.20232@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net>,
Mike Schilling <mscottschilling@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>"Dorothy J Heydt" <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote in message
>news:JtCyMC.87u@kithrup.com...
>> In article <1198158005snz@deltrak.demon.co.uk>,
>> Andrew Stephenson <ames@deltrak.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>In article <1qcldajm7kn27$.xcq17mws7x68$.dlg@40tude.net>
>>> warlocke@hyperusa.com "Ric Locke" writes:
>>>
>>>> [...] When the engine starts, stow the handle (it is gauche to
>>>> leave the handle in place when the engine is running) [...]
>>>
>>>A gentleman would of course instruct his chauffeur accordingly.
>>>A person of quality would engage staff who did not require such
>>>instructions. A person of class would never suspect the handle
>>>existed.
>>
>> Except for e.g. Lord Peter Wimsey, who insisted on driving
>> himself, because he liked it. He did not employ a personal
>> mechanic, either, though he probably had one on retainer at the
>> local garage, whom we never saw in the stories because the
>> various Mesdames Merdle broke down so seldom.
>
>
>Bertie Wooster would often drive himself too, even if Jeeves was along
>for the ride.

Lord Peter typically drove, with Bunter as a passenger. This
came in handy occasionally, e.g. in abstracting the letter in
_The Nine Tailors._

Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
djheydt@kithrup.com

In article <1198172940snz@deltrak.demon.co.uk>,
Andrew Stephenson <ames@deltrak.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <JtCyMC.87u@kithrup.com> djheydt@kithrup.com "Dorothy J Heydt" writes:
>
>> In article <1198158005snz@deltrak.demon.co.uk>,
>> Andrew Stephenson <ames@deltrak.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> >In article <1qcldajm7kn27$.xcq17mws7x68$.dlg@40tude.net>
>> > warlocke@hyperusa.com "Ric Locke" writes:
>> >
>> >> [...] When the engine starts, stow the handle (it is gauche to
>> >> leave the handle in place when the engine is running) [...]
>> >
>> >A gentleman would of course instruct his chauffeur accordingly.
>> >A person of quality would engage staff who did not require such
>> >instructions. A person of class would never suspect the handle
>> >existed.
>>
>> Except for e.g. Lord Peter Wimsey, who insisted on driving
>> himself, because he liked it. He did not employ a personal
>> mechanic, either, though he probably had one on retainer at the
>> local garage, whom we never saw in the stories because the
>> various Mesdames Merdle broke down so seldom.
>
>OTOH, didn't Lord P consort with some very rough types, such as
>his confidential gentleman, who IIRC had been anything but that
>at an earlier stage in his life? Who knows what might rub off.

No no, Bunter was always respectable, and had been in service
essentially all his adult life. Then he'd been Lord Peter's
sergeant, and saved his life a couple of times. I think you're
thinking of Bill Rumm, who started out as a safecracker, was
caught by Lord Peter trying to burgle his flat, had a change of
heart, and wound up a happily married Evangelical preacher in a
low-rent London neighborhood.

Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
djheydt@kithrup.com

On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:16:51 GMT, Dorothy J Heydt
<djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote in <news:JtD1G3.C38@kithrup.com>
in rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.composition:

> In article <1198172940snz@deltrak.demon.co.uk>,
> Andrew Stephenson <ames@deltrak.demon.co.uk> wrote:

[...]

>>OTOH, didn't Lord P consort with some very rough types, such as
>>his confidential gentleman, who IIRC had been anything but that
>>at an earlier stage in his life? Who knows what might rub off.

> No no, Bunter was always respectable, and had been in service
> essentially all his adult life. Then he'd been Lord Peter's
> sergeant, and saved his life a couple of times.

His language had come up in the world, though: recall his
reaction on discovering that Mrs Ruddle had unpacked the
wine and set the bottles upright.

[...]

Brian

In article <pd6a6gcbs28j.15m3ic614guzh.dlg@40tude.net>,
Brian M. Scott <b.scott@csuohio.edu> wrote:
>On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:16:51 GMT, Dorothy J Heydt
><djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote in <news:JtD1G3.C38@kithrup.com>
>in rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.composition:
>
>> In article <1198172940snz@deltrak.demon.co.uk>,
>> Andrew Stephenson <ames@deltrak.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>[...]
>
>>>OTOH, didn't Lord P consort with some very rough types, such as
>>>his confidential gentleman, who IIRC had been anything but that
>>>at an earlier stage in his life? Who knows what might rub off.
>
>> No no, Bunter was always respectable, and had been in service
>> essentially all his adult life. Then he'd been Lord Peter's
>> sergeant, and saved his life a couple of times.
>
>His language had come up in the world, though: recall his
>reaction on discovering that Mrs Ruddle had unpacked the
>wine and set the bottles upright.

Oh, yes. We don't know much about his childhood, except that he
had a lot of siblings and grew up in Kent, where his mother still
lives. Presumably he went into service as a teenager, and had
the wit to decide to emulate the "superior" servants with whom he
worked, rather than the run of the mill.

Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
djheydt@kithrup.com

Andrew Stephenson <ames@deltrak.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>OTOH, didn't Lord P consort with some very rough types, such as
>his confidential gentleman, who IIRC had been anything but that
>at an earlier stage in his life? Who knows what might rub off.
>
>You bring to mind a happier era, when cars appearing in stories
>knew their place and never presumed to intrude upon any plot by
>crass malfunctioning. Those of Dornford Yates, Ian Fleming and
>others... *sigh*

Well, Ian Fleming's most _famous_ car didn't malfunction in a _crass_ way...

Dave "toot sweet" DeLaney
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 13:40:05 GMT, Andrew Stephenson wrote:

> In article <1qcldajm7kn27$.xcq17mws7x68$.dlg@40tude.net>
> warlocke@hyperusa.com "Ric Locke" writes:
>
>> [...] When the engine starts, stow the handle (it is gauche to
>> leave the handle in place when the engine is running) [...]
>
> A gentleman would of course instruct his chauffeur accordingly.
> A person of quality would engage staff who did not require such
> instructions. A person of class would never suspect the handle
> existed.

A /gentleman/ would never have owned a Tin Lizzie in the first place.
The others might have had one about the country estate, but would have
attended to it much as he would the muck bucket in the stable, i.e. he
might well have been aware that it existed (and that he paid for it) but
the thought of actually /using/ it would never have disturbed his
cerebellum (if any).

Regards,
Ric

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Dec 20, 10:14 am, djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:

> Lord Peter typically drove, with Bunter as a passenger.

I would too. I can't imagine buying an expensive toy and then paying
someone else to play with it.

On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:41:36 -0800 (PST), Bob Throllop
<bobthrollop@brandx.net> wrote:

>On Dec 20, 10:14 am, djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>
>> Lord Peter typically drove, with Bunter as a passenger.
>
>I would too. I can't imagine buying an expensive toy and then paying
>someone else to play with it.
>

Yeah. Rich young guys generally felt that way, same as they'd choose
to drive their own carriages before the automobile came along. It was
rich women and old men who used chauffeurs.

Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

> Lord Peter typically drove, with Bunter as a passenger. This
> came in handy occasionally, e.g. in abstracting the letter in
> _The Nine Tailors._

In a terrifying display of synchronicity, I read that very
passage less than two hours ago.

--
Counter-Temporal Mind-Shout Hedgehog
Meaning precedes definition.

On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:16:02 -0600, Ric Locke <warlocke@hyperusa.com>
wrote:
>On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 13:40:05 GMT, Andrew Stephenson wrote:

>> A gentleman would of course instruct his chauffeur accordingly.
>> A person of quality would engage staff who did not require such
>> instructions. A person of class would never suspect the handle
>> existed.
>
>A /gentleman/ would never have owned a Tin Lizzie in the first place.
>The others might have had one about the country estate, but would have
>attended to it much as he would the muck bucket in the stable, i.e. he
>might well have been aware that it existed (and that he paid for it) but
>the thought of actually /using/ it would never have disturbed his
>cerebellum (if any).

Olivier B. Bommel was clearly a gentleman, though, having purchased an
ancestral castle, and he drove (himself, no less) in what I think is
supposed to be a ragtop model T.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_B._Bumble

Jasper

On 2007-12-19, Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote:
>
> The BBC's _The Nine Tailors_ has a lovely scene, a little
> earlier, right at the beginning of WWI. The burglar is fleeing
> the scene, with Lt. Wimsey in hot pursuit.

Wimsey didn't start his detective hobby until well after WWI.
"The Nine Tailors" is probably set around 1934, when it was published.
Was this a flashback scene? I don't remember one from the book, but
it has been a while.

Jesper Lauridsen wrote:

>
> Wimsey didn't start his detective hobby until well after WWI.
> "The Nine Tailors" is probably set around 1934, when it was published.
> Was this a flashback scene? I don't remember one from the book, but
> it has been a while.

You remember wimsey's shell-shock? I found out this weekend that my
grandfather was carrying a stretcher with a casualty at teh Somme and
found himself buried alive by a shell explosion. Just his arm sticking
out saved him.

He was a grumpy old bugger, but then he didn't have the income to employ
a valet to cook his sausages.

JF

Jesper Lauridsen wrote:
> On 2007-12-19, Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote:
>> The BBC's _The Nine Tailors_ has a lovely scene, a little
>> earlier, right at the beginning of WWI. The burglar is fleeing
>> the scene, with Lt. Wimsey in hot pursuit.
>
> Wimsey didn't start his detective hobby until well after WWI.
> "The Nine Tailors" is probably set around 1934, when it was published.
> Was this a flashback scene? I don't remember one from the book, but
> it has been a while.

Yes, for unknown reasons, the TV version started during the war, and
showed the original burglary, and involved Peter in it. It also showed
him briefly at war, how he was blown up, and how Bunter nursed him back
to health, all before finally catching up with the actual novel.

--
John W. Kennedy
"I want everybody to be smart. As smart as they can be. A world of
ignorant people is too dangerous to live in."
-- Garson Kanin. "Born Yesterday"

On Tue, 08 Jan 2008 20:35:24 +0000, Julian Flood
<julian@ooopsfloodsclimbers.co.uk> wrote:

>Jesper Lauridsen wrote:
>
>>
>> Wimsey didn't start his detective hobby until well after WWI.
>> "The Nine Tailors" is probably set around 1934, when it was published.
>> Was this a flashback scene? I don't remember one from the book, but
>> it has been a while.
>
>You remember wimsey's shell-shock? I found out this weekend that my
>grandfather was carrying a stretcher with a casualty at teh Somme and
>found himself buried alive by a shell explosion. Just his arm sticking
>out saved him.
>
>He was a grumpy old bugger, but then he didn't have the income to employ
>a valet to cook his sausages.

And they didn't have microwaves back then, either.
--
Marilee J. Layman
http://mjlayman.livejournal.com