James A. Donald:
> > There are no capitalist disasters. Every major
> > famine in the last century or so was caused by war
> > or socialism - usually socialism.

(Nate Edel
> In that case, then, there are second-order capitalist
> disasters; it's certainly caused plenty of wars.

What wars were started by capitalism?

There is a reason the National Socialists were called
National SOCIALISTS.

--
----------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.

http://www.jim.com/ James A. Donald

In rec.arts.sf.written James A. Donald <jamesd@echeque.com> wrote:
> James A. Donald:
> > > There are no capitalist disasters. Every major
> > > famine in the last century or so was caused by war
> > > or socialism - usually socialism.
>
> (Nate Edel
> > In that case, then, there are second-order capitalist
> > disasters; it's certainly caused plenty of wars.
>
> What wars were started by capitalism?

In the last century? The entry of the US into the first world war, and to
some extent the first world war as a whole (although there was still too
much monarchic politics laying around to blame it entirely on capitalists.)

The Pacific theater of the Second World War was arguably a case of a
capitalist democracy vs. a capitalist oligarchy.

Quite a number of little colonial and third-world conflicts, although the
capitalists in the latter case tend to be of the kleptocratic variety.

> There is a reason the National Socialists were called
> National SOCIALISTS.

Yes... that they had no respect for the meaning of words, and had some dead
history in the early days of their party. Though I'd hardly call fascists
capitalists; they're their own nasty breed.

--
Nate Edel http://www.cubiclehermit.com/
preferred email |
is "nate" at the | "Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend.
posting domain | Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read." (Groucho)

James A. Donald:
> > > > There are no capitalist disasters. Every major
> > > > famine in the last century or so was caused by
> > > > war or socialism - usually socialism.

Nate Edel
> > > In that case, then, there are second-order
> > > capitalist disasters; it's certainly caused plenty
> > > of wars.

> > What wars were started by capitalism?

> In the last century? The entry of the US into the
> first world war

That was not a war started by the US.

> The Pacific theater of the Second World War was
> arguably a case of a capitalist democracy vs. a
> capitalist oligarchy.

The rationale of the Japanese fascists for launching the
war was national resource autarchy, which is a socialist
rationale. Capitalists want trade, not autarchy.
Capitalists don't think that trade is dependence, or
that trade is war, or that the national balance of
payments and suchlike things matter much.

--
----------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.

http://www.jim.com/ James A. Donald

"James A. Donald" <jamesd@echeque.com> wrote in message
news:vaghm3phoc638naumvosn7fvdo0a4dj8h1@4ax.com...
>
> There is a reason the National Socialists were called
> National SOCIALISTS.

Yes, it's called "marketing". Next you'll tell us that Bush is
compassionate and a conservative.

In rec.arts.sf.written James A. Donald <jamesd@echeque.com> wrote:
> James A. Donald:
> > > > > There are no capitalist disasters. Every major
> > > > > famine in the last century or so was caused by
> > > > > war or socialism - usually socialism.
> Nate Edel
> > > > In that case, then, there are second-order
> > > > capitalist disasters; it's certainly caused plenty
> > > > of wars.
> > >
> > > What wars were started by capitalism?
> >
> > In the last century? The entry of the US into the
> > first world war
>
> That was not a war started by the US.

Our entry to it was voluntary, and more a consequence of our unwillingness
to enforce neutrality on our own business interests than that of anything
the Germans did.

> > The Pacific theater of the Second World War was
> > arguably a case of a capitalist democracy vs. a
> > capitalist oligarchy.
>
> The rationale of the Japanese fascists for launching the
> war was national resource autarchy, which is a socialist
> rationale. Capitalists want trade, not autarchy.
> Capitalists don't think that trade is dependence, or
> that trade is war, or that the national balance of
> payments and suchlike things matter much.

Little-c capitalists are not all perfect libertarian laissez-faire
"Capitalists," something our fuel embargo shows just as much as the Japanese
attempt at expansion showed. While the US form of capitalism has largely
focussed on expanding our influence by hegemony (note the quasi-independence
of Cuba for many years, and the many small military interventions in Latin
America since the end of the Civil War) rather than outright colonization or
conquest, that doesn't make Japan (or a outright fascist state) somehow
"socialist" any more than it makes the old mercantilist forms of little-c
capitalism "socialist."

--
Nate Edel http://www.cubiclehermit.com/
preferred email |
is "nate" at the | "Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend.
posting domain | Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read." (Groucho)

James A. Donald
> > > > What wars were started by capitalism?

Nate Edel
> > > In the last century? The entry of the US into the
> > > first world war

James A. Donald
> > That was not a war started by the US.

Nate Edel
> Our entry to it was voluntary, and more a consequence
> of our unwillingness to enforce neutrality on our own
> business interests than that of anything the Germans
> did.

"Neutral" should mean you can trade with who you please
- not that you should trade only with who Germany tells
you to trade with, at prices set by Germany.

Germans attacked American ships in American waters.
Americans on shore could see American civilians in
flames, being slain by Germans.

> > > The Pacific theater of the Second World War was
> > > arguably a case of a capitalist democracy vs. a
> > > capitalist oligarchy.

James A. Donald
> > The rationale of the Japanese fascists for launching
> > the war was national resource autarchy, which is a
> > socialist rationale.

Nate Edel
> Little-c capitalists are not all perfect libertarian
> laissez-faire

"National autarky" is a national socialist goal, not a
capitalist goal - an indication that the war was
launched by people who thought of themselves as
"the nation" owning stuff, not the business owning
stuff.


--
----------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.

http://www.jim.com/ James A. Donald