Free Lunch
> Exactly the point I was making. You intentionally
> cherry picked the date to exclude a very well known
> example.

No it is not well known as a capitalist famine. It is
well known as a natural famine.

If it was a capitalist famine, we would still be having
capitalist famines. Where was the most recent serious
famines?

North Korea, 1990s, something like 30% of the population

Ethiopia under Mengistu, 1980s, somewhat similar
proportion, something like 15%.

Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge, 1970s, similar
proportion, something like 25%

And so forth.

Not even Ireland was remotely comparable - and Ireland
was a natural famine.

--
----------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.

http://www.jim.com/ James A. Donald

On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 17:49:49 +1000, in alt.atheism
James A. Donald <jamesd@echeque.com> wrote in
<roihm3dndj2is3204obl8ld6ecs2o00h0e@4ax.com>:
> Free Lunch
>> Exactly the point I was making. You intentionally
>> cherry picked the date to exclude a very well known
>> example.
>
>No it is not well known as a capitalist famine. It is
>well known as a natural famine.

While Ireland was exporting food?

Learn something.

>If it was a capitalist famine, we would still be having
>capitalist famines. Where was the most recent serious
>famines?
>
>North Korea, 1990s, something like 30% of the population
>
>Ethiopia under Mengistu, 1980s, somewhat similar
>proportion, something like 15%.
>
>Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge, 1970s, similar
>proportion, something like 25%
>
>And so forth.
>
>Not even Ireland was remotely comparable - and Ireland
>was a natural famine.

Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote in message
news:ncgjm3t2j8mesi1rgj5a2m728rc8beh7v8@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 17:49:49 +1000, in alt.atheism
> James A. Donald <jamesd@echeque.com> wrote in
> <roihm3dndj2is3204obl8ld6ecs2o00h0e@4ax.com>:
> > Free Lunch
> >> Exactly the point I was making. You intentionally
> >> cherry picked the date to exclude a very well known
> >> example.
> >
> >No it is not well known as a capitalist famine. It is
> >well known as a natural famine.
>
> While Ireland was exporting food?
>
> Learn something.
>
> >If it was a capitalist famine, we would still be having
> >capitalist famines. Where was the most recent serious
> >famines?
> >
> >North Korea, 1990s, something like 30% of the population
> >
> >Ethiopia under Mengistu, 1980s, somewhat similar
> >proportion, something like 15%.
> >
> >Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge, 1970s, similar
> >proportion, something like 25%
> >
> >And so forth.
> >
> >Not even Ireland was remotely comparable - and Ireland
> >was a natural famine.

It can't have been, because famines just don't happen, unless they occur
naturally, under capitalism in which case, there is nothing you can do
anyway. Under socialism, famines don't happen naturally at all, they have to
be forced into occuring by mass-murdering property-haters.

/sarcasm.

Free Lunch
> >> Exactly the point I was making. You intentionally
> >> cherry picked the date to exclude a very well known
> >> example.

James A. Donald:
> >No it is not well known as a capitalist famine. It
> >is well known as a natural famine.

Free Lunch
> While Ireland was exporting food?

Exporting a lot less food than usual.

Man does not live by potatoes alone. Irish were
exporting food for cash, and also receiving free food
from the rest of the world - Among Irish expenditures
were that very large numbers of Irish upped and left for
england, and they had to pay their passage.

Indeed, a major factor in the famine was that transport
costs were then high relative to income. Your imagined
benevolent socialist planners would have been helpless
to allocate food as planned. It was simply a very poor
and primitive society. By and large, people starved
because they were *not* exporting food - starvation was
most severe in the boonies, in the less accessible parts
of ireland.

You are writing as if Ireland had already received the
power over nature that capitalism has created, and all
that was needed was the wisdom and goodness of the
planners to command it.



--
----------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.

http://www.jim.com/ James A. Donald

, "brique"
<briquenoir@freeuk.c0m> wrote:

> because famines just don't happen, unless they occur
> naturally

The Irish famine was caused by the potato blight. As a
result of natural events there was no food, and very
little transport. What would socialist planners have
done? They would have accused large numbers of people
of sabotaging the crops and deviating from the plan,
tortured them, and executed them. Like Mugabe, they
would have benevolently passed a law guaranteeing that
there was plenty of food in the shops at reasonable
prices, plus a generous ration for pregnant women etc,
and when the shops remained obstinately empty, and
pregnant women unfed, would have shot a bunch of people
for failure to comply with the plan.

--
----------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.

http://www.jim.com/ James A. Donald

On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 05:22:45 +1000, James A. Donald
<jamesd@echeque.com> wrote:

>The Irish famine was caused by the potato blight.

No. The potato blight caused the failure of the potato crop.

The famine was caused by English landlords ignoring the situation, and
still demanding their rent, leaving the farmers with no money to buy
the plentiful wheat, that those same English landlords had a plenty,
but which they had inflated the price so high that the farmers could
not buy it.

Wheat, btw, which they exported at prices which, had they offered it
on the local market, the poor, and the farmers that had lost their
crops, could have survived.

James A. Donald <jamesd@echeque.com> wrote in message
news:lpflm3d8smljshc6ku6pcsvdbg5i6de2vo@4ax.com...
> , "brique"
> <briquenoir@freeuk.c0m> wrote:
>
> > because famines just don't happen, unless they occur
> > naturally
>
> The Irish famine was caused by the potato blight. As a
> result of natural events there was no food, and very
> little transport.

Incorrect. There was abundant food, and it was all being shipped to the
ports and sent to England. The potato was blighted, but that was not an
export crop, it was the staple diet of the agicultural workers, grown in
smallholdings and supplementing their meagre wage.

<snipped : yet another of James increasingly weird obsessions with torture
of women and children, it seems just blowing them up because their father
goes to a mosque is not enough to keep his hard-on >

brique wrote:
> James A. Donald <jamesd@echeque.com> wrote in message
> news:lpflm3d8smljshc6ku6pcsvdbg5i6de2vo@4ax.com...
>> , "brique" <briquenoir@freeuk.c0m> wrote:
>>
>>> because famines just don't happen, unless they occur naturally
>> The Irish famine was caused by the potato blight. As a result of
>> natural events there was no food, and very little transport.
>
> Incorrect. There was abundant food, and it was all being shipped to
> the ports and sent to England.

But brique, that was *human* food, not *Irish* food!

--
Dan Clore

My collected fiction, _The Unspeakable and Others_:
http://tinyurl.com/3akhhr
Lord Weÿrdgliffe & Necronomicon Page:
http://tinyurl.com/292yz9
News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo

Strange pleasures are known to him who flaunts the
immarcescible purple of poetry before the color-blind.
-- Clark Ashton Smith, "Epigrams and Apothegms"

Dan Clore <clore@columbia-center.org> wrote in message
news:5t1t94F1akkhoU3@mid.individual.net...
> brique wrote:
> > James A. Donald <jamesd@echeque.com> wrote in message
> > news:lpflm3d8smljshc6ku6pcsvdbg5i6de2vo@4ax.com...
> >> , "brique" <briquenoir@freeuk.c0m> wrote:
> >>
> >>> because famines just don't happen, unless they occur naturally
> >> The Irish famine was caused by the potato blight. As a result of
> >> natural events there was no food, and very little transport.
> >
> > Incorrect. There was abundant food, and it was all being shipped to
> > the ports and sent to England.
>
> But brique, that was *human* food, not *Irish* food!

Brings to mind the old joke about the scots, eating food (oats) that proper
people (the english) feed to their horses.....

>
> --
> Dan Clore
>
> My collected fiction, _The Unspeakable and Others_:
> http://tinyurl.com/3akhhr
> Lord Weÿrdgliffe & Necronomicon Page:
> http://tinyurl.com/292yz9
> News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
>
> Strange pleasures are known to him who flaunts the
> immarcescible purple of poetry before the color-blind.
> -- Clark Ashton Smith, "Epigrams and Apothegms"

James A. Donald
> >The Irish famine was caused by the potato blight.

Dubh Ghall
> No. The potato blight caused the failure of the
> potato crop.
>
> The famine was caused by English landlords ignoring
> the situation, and still demanding their rent,

How could english landlords "demand" their rent?

Only socialist overlords can *demand* rent, because
socialists can torture people for failure to deliver and
force them to *remain* on the farm.

A landlord can only *evict* people from the farm, which
does not do him much good unless there are some
potential tenants available willing and able to pay.

The landlord is not going to evict everyone, if it is
likely to result in leaving the place empty, so if your
neighbors are in the same pickle as you are, rent has to
be postponed, forgiven, or forgotten.

Which is one of the reasons why socialism and famine
have always gone hand in hand, and one of the reasons
why now that man has mastery of nature, we never see
serious famine except where there is war or socialism.


--
----------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.

http://www.jim.com/ James A. Donald

James A. Donald
> > The Irish famine was caused by the potato blight. As
> > a result of natural events there was no food, and
> > very little transport.

"brique"
> Incorrect. There was abundant food, and it was all
> being shipped to the ports and sent to England.

Ireland did not have the transport capability to ship
abundant food to England

It was physically impossible for Ireland to ship more
than a small portion of its normal production to
England.

If there ever were capitalist famines, we would *still*
be having capitalist famines, the way we still have
socialist famines, and you would not have to dig back
one hundred and seventy years.

--
----------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.

http://www.jim.com/ James A. Donald

: James A. Donald <jamesd@echeque.com>
: Only socialist overlords can *demand* rent, because
: socialists can torture people for failure to deliver and
: force them to *remain* on the farm.
:
: A landlord can only *evict* people from the farm, which
: does not do him much good unless there are some
: potential tenants available willing and able to pay.
:
: The landlord is not going to evict everyone, if it is
: likely to result in leaving the place empty, so if your
: neighbors are in the same pickle as you are, rent has to
: be postponed, forgiven, or forgotten.
:
: Which is one of the reasons why socialism and famine
: have always gone hand in hand, and one of the reasons
: why now that man has mastery of nature, we never see
: serious famine except where there is war or socialism.

In other words, any capitalist schemes that have problems
simply Aren't Capitalist *Enough*.


Wayne Throop throopw@sheol.org http://sheol.org/throopw

On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 05:33:01 +1000, James A. Donald
<jamesd@echeque.com> wrote:

> James A. Donald
>> >The Irish famine was caused by the potato blight.
>
>Dubh Ghall
>> No. The potato blight caused the failure of the
>> potato crop.
>>
>> The famine was caused by English landlords ignoring
>> the situation, and still demanding their rent,
>
>How could english landlords "demand" their rent?
>
>Only socialist overlords can *demand* rent, because
>socialists can torture people for failure to deliver and
>force them to *remain* on the farm.
>
>A landlord can only *evict* people from the farm, which
>does not do him much good unless there are some
>potential tenants available willing and able to pay.
>
>The landlord is not going to evict everyone, if it is
>likely to result in leaving the place empty, so if your
>neighbors are in the same pickle as you are, rent has to
>be postponed, forgiven, or forgotten.
>
>Which is one of the reasons why socialism and famine
>have always gone hand in hand, and one of the reasons
>why now that man has mastery of nature, we never see
>serious famine except where there is war or socialism.


I'm sorry James; You should have said that you were a ****ing idiot.
That way I wouldn't have bothered disagreeing with you.

James A. Donald <jamesd@echeque.com>
> > Which is one of the reasons why socialism and famine
> > have always gone hand in hand, and one of the
> > reasons why now that man has mastery of nature, we
> > never see serious famine except where there is war
> > or socialism.

Wayne Throop
> In other words, any capitalist schemes that have
> problems simply Aren't Capitalist *Enough*.

So where are these capitalist schemes that have
problems, and how do those problems compare to
Zimbabwe and North Korea?

If they are not as capitalist as *South* Korea, then
indeed they are not capitalist enough.

--
----------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.

http://www.jim.com/ James A. Donald

:: In other words, any capitalist schemes that have problems
:: simply Aren't Capitalist *Enough*.

: James A. Donald <jamesd@echeque.com>
: So where are these capitalist schemes that have problems,

The one you just dismissed as not being capitalist enough.
The one where you demonstrated that your "we never see serious famine
except where there is war or socialism" is a "true scotsman" claim.

You see, the point is, any time somebody supplies an example, and
says, "that's a scotsman", you reply "but it's not a TRUE scotsman".

Or, the parable of the ghost. A delusional man insisted that he was a ghost.
His psychiatrist went round and round with him on this, but eventually tried
to confront him with a contradiction. "Do ghosts bleed?" he asked?
"No, ghosts don't bleed." the patient replied. The psychiatrist then
used a sterile lancet and pricked the patients finger, producing several
drops of blood. "And what do you conclude from that?" he asked.
After a few stunned moments, the patient says "Of course! How could I
have been so deluded! Ghosts *do* bleed!"


Wayne Throop throopw@sheol.org http://sheol.org/throopw

James A. Donald <jamesd@echeque.com> wrote in message
news:ulpqm35f651v7r54hq4p55klhvlactgap7@4ax.com...
> James A. Donald
> > > The Irish famine was caused by the potato blight. As
> > > a result of natural events there was no food, and
> > > very little transport.
>
> "brique"
> > Incorrect. There was abundant food, and it was all
> > being shipped to the ports and sent to England.
>
> Ireland did not have the transport capability to ship
> abundant food to England

Are you ****ing insane, James?

>
> It was physically impossible for Ireland to ship more
> than a small portion of its normal production to
> England.

You must be ****ing insane......

1845-1850 : the British Empire bestrode the globe but didn't have any ships
that could travel from Liverpool or Bristol (only two of the largest and
busiest ports in Europe at the time) across a few miles of sea to Ireland
and back again with any reliability ....

James A. Donald <jamesd@echeque.com> wrote in message
news:ulpqm35f651v7r54hq4p55klhvlactgap7@4ax.com...
> James A. Donald
> > > The Irish famine was caused by the potato blight. As
> > > a result of natural events there was no food, and
> > > very little transport.
>
> "brique"
> > Incorrect. There was abundant food, and it was all
> > being shipped to the ports and sent to England.
>
> Ireland did not have the transport capability to ship
> abundant food to England

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_history_of_Ireland

"In the eighteenth century English trade with Ireland was the most important
branch of English overseas trade1. The Anglo-Irish absentee landlords drew
off some £800,000 p.a. in the early part of the century, rising to £1
million, in an economy that amounted to about £4 million. Completely
deforested for timber exports and a temporary iron industry in the course of
the seventeenth century, Irish estates turned to the export of salt beef and
pork and butter and hard cheese through the slaughterhouse and port city of
Cork, which supplied England, the Royal Navy and the sugar colonies of the
West Indies. The bishop of Cloyne wondered "how a foreigner could possibly
conceive that half the inhabitants are dying of hunger in a country so
abundant in foodstuffs?"2. In the 1780s, under pressure from salted meat
exported from the Baltic and from the United States, the Anglo-Irish
landowners rapidly switched to growing grain for export, while the Irish
themselves ate potatoes and groats."


>
> It was physically impossible for Ireland to ship more
> than a small portion of its normal production to
> England.
>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Potato_Famine_(1845-1849)#Food_exports_to
_England

"Records show Irish lands exported food, even during the worst years of the
Famine. When Ireland experienced a famine in 1782-83, ports were closed to
keep Irish-grown food in Ireland to feed the Irish. Local food prices
promptly dropped. Merchants lobbied against the export ban, but government
in the 1780s overrode their protests; that export ban did not happen in the
1840s.[18]

Cecil Woodham-Smith, an authority on the Irish Famine, wrote in The Great
Hunger; Ireland 1845-1849 that,
" ...no issue has provoked so much anger or so embittered relations between
the two countries (England and Ireland) as the indisputable fact that huge
quantities of food were exported from Ireland to England throughout the
period when the people of Ireland were dying of starvation. "

Ireland remained a net exporter of food throughout most of the five-year
famine.

Christine Kinealy, a University of Liverpool fellow and author of two texts
on the famine, Irish Famine: This Great Calamity and A Death-Dealing Famine,
writes that Irish exports of calves, livestock (except pigs), bacon and ham
actually increased during the famine. The food was shipped under guard from
the most famine-stricken parts of Ireland. However, the poor had no money to
buy food and the government then did not ban exports."

(Wayne Throop) wrote:
> :: In other words, any capitalist schemes that have problems
> :: simply Aren't Capitalist *Enough*.

James A. Donald <jamesd@echeque.com>
> : So where are these capitalist schemes that have problems,

(Wayne Throop) wrote:
> The one you just dismissed as not being capitalist enough.

Which was?


--
----------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.

http://www.jim.com/ James A. Donald

James A. Donald
> > It was physically impossible for Ireland to ship
> > more than a small portion of its normal production
> > to England.

"brique"
> You must be ****ing insane......
>
> 1845-1850 : the British Empire bestrode the globe but
> didn't have any ships
> that could travel from Liverpool or Bristol (only two
> of the largest and busiest ports in Europe at the
> time) across a few miles of sea to Ireland and back
> again with any reliability ...

Irish were not starving in Irish ports, but rather out
in the back of nowhere.

--
----------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.

http://www.jim.com/ James A. Donald

James A. Donald <jamesd@echeque.com> wrote in message
news:okutm3lugfkdun3vg5sh5r7ldoi399r4i9@4ax.com...
> James A. Donald
> > > It was physically impossible for Ireland to ship
> > > more than a small portion of its normal production
> > > to England.
>
> "brique"
> > You must be ****ing insane......
> >
> > 1845-1850 : the British Empire bestrode the globe but
> > didn't have any ships
> > that could travel from Liverpool or Bristol (only two
> > of the largest and busiest ports in Europe at the
> > time) across a few miles of sea to Ireland and back
> > again with any reliability ...
>
> Irish were not starving in Irish ports, but rather out
> in the back of nowhere.

Right, lacking native guides bearing machettes to hack their way through the
dense undergrowth, dodging wild animals and head-hunters, fording raging
torrents, clambering over immense mountain ranges, unable to walk more than
fifty paces before being sucked down into quicksand and bog, why, nothing
moved at all in the Emerald Isle... except the millions who left it. One
wonders how they managed to get to the harbours with all those non-existent
transport links and no ships there to carry them away......... what a
****ing idiot you are, James.



>
> --
> ----------------------
> We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because
> of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this
> right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.
>
> http://www.jim.com/ James A. Donald

On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 04:46:52 -0000, "brique" <briquenoir@freeuk.c0m>
wrote:

>
> James A. Donald <jamesd@echeque.com> wrote in message
> news:ulpqm35f651v7r54hq4p55klhvlactgap7@4ax.com...
> > James A. Donald
> > > > The Irish famine was caused by the potato blight. As
> > > > a result of natural events there was no food, and
> > > > very little transport.
> >
> > "brique"
> > > Incorrect. There was abundant food, and it was all
> > > being shipped to the ports and sent to England.
> >
> > Ireland did not have the transport capability to ship
> > abundant food to England
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_history_of_Ireland

Which citation would appear to indicate that in normal times, about a
quarter of Irish food was shipped to England.


--
----------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.

http://www.jim.com/ James A. Donald

James A. Donald <jamesd@echeque.com> wrote in message
news:76eum3lo21rq8lmjuvaun7uf288rgtueoi@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 04:46:52 -0000, "brique" <briquenoir@freeuk.c0m>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > James A. Donald <jamesd@echeque.com> wrote in message
> > news:ulpqm35f651v7r54hq4p55klhvlactgap7@4ax.com...
> > > James A. Donald
> > > > > The Irish famine was caused by the potato blight. As
> > > > > a result of natural events there was no food, and
> > > > > very little transport.
> > >
> > > "brique"
> > > > Incorrect. There was abundant food, and it was all
> > > > being shipped to the ports and sent to England.
> > >
> > > Ireland did not have the transport capability to ship
> > > abundant food to England
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_history_of_Ireland
>
> Which citation would appear to indicate that in normal times, about a
> quarter of Irish food was shipped to England.

And kept being shipped during the famine, in some sectors, such as
livestock, exports increased.

James A. Donald
> > Irish were not starving in Irish ports, but rather out
> > in the back of nowhere.

"brique"
> Right, lacking native guides bearing machettes to hack their way through the
> dense undergrowth,

It is a long way across Ireland on shank's pony with no food. They
could not just hop in their car and drive.

If the Irish famine was a capitalist famine, we would still be having
capitalist famines, the way we are still have socialist famines. The
Irish famine was a natural disaster famine.


--
----------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.

http://www.jim.com/ James A. Donald

["Followup-To:" header set to rec.arts.sf.written.]
On 2007-12-25, James A Donald <jamesd@echeque.com> wrote:
> James A. Donald
>> > Irish were not starving in Irish ports, but rather out
>> > in the back of nowhere.
>
> "brique"
>> Right, lacking native guides bearing machettes to hack their way through the
>> dense undergrowth,
>
> It is a long way across Ireland on shank's pony with no food. They
> could not just hop in their car and drive.
>
> If the Irish famine was a capitalist famine, we would still be having
> capitalist famines, the way we are still have socialist famines. The
> Irish famine was a natural disaster famine.

Only if the "capitalism" of then-and-there is not significantly
different from the "capitalism" of here-and-now.

--
Aaron Denney
-><-

On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 17:59:54 +0000 (UTC), Aaron Denney
<wnoise@ofb.net> wrote:

>Only if the "capitalism" of then-and-there is not significantly
>different from the "capitalism" of here-and-now.

If we're only counting current versions of capitalism, we should only
compare it with current versions of communism.

Currently famine only exists where there is war.

James A Donald
> > If the Irish famine was a capitalist famine, we
> > would still be having capitalist famines, the way we
> > are still have socialist famines. The Irish famine
> > was a natural disaster famine.

Aaron Denney
> Only if the "capitalism" of then-and-there is not
> significantly different from the "capitalism" of
> here-and-now.

Hong Kong capitalism from World War II to about 1960
made British capitalism of the 1740s look warm, fuzzy,
and half socialist. Hong Kong was a barren rock swarmed
by vast numbers of refugees, refugees that no one dared
to help for fear of offending China and their own
internal left.

No famine in Hong Kong.

The difference, therefore lies in mastery over nature,
not do gooders busy doing good with other people's
money.

--
----------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.

http://www.jim.com/ James A. Donald

On 2007-12-25, Howard Brazee <howard@brazee.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 17:59:54 +0000 (UTC), Aaron Denney
><wnoise@ofb.net> wrote:
>
>>Only if the "capitalism" of then-and-there is not significantly
>>different from the "capitalism" of here-and-now.
>
> If we're only counting current versions of capitalism, we should only
> compare it with current versions of communism.

You mistake me for someone defending communism.

--
Aaron Denney
-><-

James A. Donald <jamesd@echeque.com> wrote in message
news:s3u1n3pcp1itml3li2i6hbl15mrj55921g@4ax.com...
> James A. Donald
> > > Irish were not starving in Irish ports, but rather out
> > > in the back of nowhere.
>
> "brique"
> > Right, lacking native guides bearing machettes to hack their way through
the
> > dense undergrowth,
>
> It is a long way across Ireland on shank's pony with no food. They
> could not just hop in their car and drive.

****ing idiot.

http://www.cie.ie/about_us/schools_and_enthusiasts.asp

Here you will discover that Ireland not only had roads, with regular
scheduled coach and mail services, they even managed to have canals as well,
all decades prior to the Famine. It will probably surprise you but they had
railways too, along with major ports, such as Derry, Belfast, Cork, Dublin,
and others.

The fact is, James, the transport network in Ireland was extensive and well
developed.

>
> If the Irish famine was a capitalist famine, we would still be having
> capitalist famines, the way we are still have socialist famines. The
> Irish famine was a natural disaster famine.

Because, of course, capitalism can't have disaters, they must be natural
where as socialism never has a natural disater, they are always planned by
evil commissars.....

Next week, James tells us how Hurricane Katrina was planned and developed by
the evil Cubans to punish their unruly populace before it escaped the
Caribbean and demolished New Orleans in a totally unexpected natural
disaster.... honest.

On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 02:30:18 +0000 (UTC), Aaron Denney
<wnoise@ofb.net> wrote:

>>>Only if the "capitalism" of then-and-there is not significantly
>>>different from the "capitalism" of here-and-now.
>>
>> If we're only counting current versions of capitalism, we should only
>> compare it with current versions of communism.
>
>You mistake me for someone defending communism.

How so?