On Dec 18, 2:06 pm, "Michael S. Schiffer" <mschi...@condor.depaul.edu>
wrote:
> David Tate <dt...@ida.org> wrote innews:bf081a32-2a5b-437b-9ea6-848e5fa5048a@r60g2000hsc.googlegroups.
> com:
>
> > On Dec 17, 10:47 am, Gene Ward Smith <genewardsm...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >> If you went back to 1920 and gave someone actual phrases from
> >> the future, what would be terrifying?
> > [...]
> >> What else? What can we expect which will sound scary?

> > processed cheese food product
>
> Velveeta was introduced in 1928, so apparently not that terrifying
> to the 20s public.

I agree with most of your quibbles , but not this one. There's a
difference between being exposed to the product, and being explicitly
told what it is (and isn't). "Hot dog with less than 1% rat hairs" is
more terrifying than "hot dog", even if it's the same product.
Velveeta was marketed as cheese until laws were passed so that they
couldn't do that any more.

David Tate

For some reason I was thinking of Europe, not the US, and had
forgotten the Temperance cult.

David Tate <dtate@ida.org> wrote in
news:8d5fe9db-c0df-4580-8b76-36857f56e26f@s8g2000prg.googlegroups.c
om:

> On Dec 18, 2:06 pm, "Michael S. Schiffer"
> <mschi...@condor.depaul.edu> wrote:
>> David Tate <dt...@ida.org> wrote
>> innews:bf081a32-2a5b-437b-9ea6-848e5fa5048a@r60g2000hsc.googlegr
>> oups. com:
>>
>> > On Dec 17, 10:47 am, Gene Ward Smith
>> > <genewardsm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> If you went back to 1920 and gave someone actual phrases
>> >> from the future, what would be terrifying?
>> > [...]
>> >> What else? What can we expect which will sound scary?

>> > processed cheese food product

>> Velveeta was introduced in 1928, so apparently not that
>> terrifying to the 20s public.
>
> I agree with most of your quibbles , but not this one.
> There's a difference between being exposed to the product, and
> being explicitly told what it is (and isn't). "Hot dog with
> less than 1% rat hairs" is more terrifying than "hot dog", even
> if it's the same product. Velveeta was marketed as cheese until
> laws were passed so that they couldn't do that any more.

Fair enough. It looks to me like 1955 was the breakpoint there-- at
least, that seems to be when "pasteurized process cheese food" shows
up in the Federal Register. (There may have been state regulations
or industry conventions in place before then.) I'm not sure when
the public became aware of the term (insofar as it is-- most people
don't read labels all that carefully in my experience).

> For some reason I was thinking of Europe, not the US, and
> had forgotten the Temperance cult.

The Twenties were an odd time in a lot of ways. (Though when
isn't?) I found Fredrick Lewis Allen's _Only Yesterday_, written
looking back on the decade from 1931, to be fascinating.

(I noticed on a quick reference to the book that "near-beer" was
then known and legal and-- since the only way to make it was to brew
beer and remove the alcohol-- one of the various holes identified in
the Volstead Act.)

Mike

--
Michael S. Schiffer, LHN, FCS
mschiffe@condor.depaul.edu

On 2007-12-19 09:48:37 -0800, David Tate <dtate@ida.org> said:

> On Dec 18, 2:06 pm, "Michael S. Schiffer" <mschi...@condor.depaul.edu>
> wrote:
>> David Tate <dt...@ida.org> wrote
>> innews:bf081a32-2a5b-437b-9ea6-848e5fa5048a@r60g2000hsc.googlegroups.
>> com:
>>
>>> On Dec 17, 10:47 am, Gene Ward Smith <genewardsm...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> If you went back to 1920 and gave someone actual phrases from
>>>> the future, what would be terrifying?
>>> [...]
>>>> What else? What can we expect which will sound scary?
>
>>> processed cheese food product
>>
>> Velveeta was introduced in 1928, so apparently not that terrifying
>> to the 20s public.

1918, actually.

Kraft bought the company in 1927, but the product itself was originally
made and sold by the Monroe Cheese Company, and then later by the
Velveeta Cheese Company, a spinout business.

> I agree with most of your quibbles , but not this one. There's a
> difference between being exposed to the product, and being explicitly
> told what it is (and isn't). "Hot dog with less than 1% rat hairs" is
> more terrifying than "hot dog", even if it's the same product.
> Velveeta was marketed as cheese until laws were passed so that they
> couldn't do that any more.

I remember being amazed and delightedly aghast at realizing that a jar
of stuff in Scott McCloud's other's kitchen was labeled "Kraft 100%
Pasteurized Homogenized Processed Cheese Food Spread."

It wasn't cheese. It wasn't even cheese food. It was cheese food spread.

Foo.

kdb

On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 11:30:02 -0800, Kurt Busiek wrote:

> I remember being amazed and delightedly aghast at realizing that a jar
> of stuff in Scott McCloud's other's kitchen was labeled "Kraft 100%
> Pasteurized Homogenized Processed Cheese Food Spread."
>
> It wasn't cheese. It wasn't even cheese food. It was cheese food spread.

I had a similar boggle, when I first encountered "Kraft traditional
squeezable cheddar cheese".

--
================================================== =====================
= David --- If you use Microsoft products, you will, inevitably, get
= Mitchell --- viruses, so please don't add me to your address book.
================================================== =====================

David Tate wrote:

> On Dec 18, 2:06 pm, "Michael S. Schiffer" <mschi...@condor.depaul.edu>
> wrote:
> > David Tate <dt...@ida.org> wrote
> > innews:bf081a32-2a5b-437b-9ea6-848e5fa5048a@r60g2000hsc.googlegroups

> > > processed cheese food product
> >
> > Velveeta was introduced in 1928, so apparently not that terrifying
> > to the 20s public.
>
> I agree with most of your quibbles , but not this one. There's a
> difference between being exposed to the product, and being explicitly
> told what it is (and isn't). "Hot dog with less than 1% rat hairs" is
> more terrifying than "hot dog", even if it's the same product.
> Velveeta was marketed as cheese until laws were passed so that they
> couldn't do that any more.

That's assuming that the 1920s folks would naturally associate the term
as being bad. It could sound like marketing hype.




Brian

--
If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who
won't shut up.
-- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com)

On Dec 19, 9:48 am, David Tate <dt...@ida.org> wrote:
> On Dec 18, 2:06 pm, "Michael S. Schiffer" <mschi...@condor.depaul.edu>
> wrote:
>
> > David Tate <dt...@ida.org> wrote innews:bf081a32-2a5b-437b-9ea6-848e5fa5048a@r60g2000hsc.googlegroups.
> > com:
>
> > > On Dec 17, 10:47 am, Gene Ward Smith <genewardsm...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >> If you went back to 1920 and gave someone actual phrases from
> > >> the future, what would be terrifying?
> > > [...]
> > >> What else? What can we expect which will sound scary?
> > > processed cheese food product
>
> > Velveeta was introduced in 1928, so apparently not that terrifying
> > to the 20s public.
>
> I agree with most of your quibbles , but not this one. There's a
> difference between being exposed to the product, and being explicitly
> told what it is (and isn't). "Hot dog with less than 1% rat hairs" is
> more terrifying than "hot dog", even if it's the same product.
> Velveeta was marketed as cheese until laws were passed so that they
> couldn't do that any more.

I've tasted Velveeta, and frankly, being told what it is cannot be
more horrifying than actually eating the stuff.

For what it's worth, even in the 1920s people wern't all THAT naiive
about the potential evils of processed food. Upton Sinclair published
The Jungle back in 1906, after all.


Eric Tolle

On 2007-12-20 11:24:50 -0800, ErictheTolle@gmail.com said:

> On Dec 19, 9:48 am, David Tate <dt...@ida.org> wrote:
>> On Dec 18, 2:06 pm, "Michael S. Schiffer" <mschi...@condor.depaul.edu>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> David Tate <dt...@ida.org> wrote
>>> innews:bf081a32-2a5b-437b-9ea6-848e5fa5048a@r60g2000hsc.googlegroups.
>>> com:
>>
>>>> On Dec 17, 10:47 am, Gene Ward Smith <genewardsm...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> If you went back to 1920 and gave someone actual phrases from
>>>>> the future, what would be terrifying?
>>>> [...]
>>>>> What else? What can we expect which will sound scary?
>>>> processed cheese food product
>>
>>> Velveeta was introduced in 1928, so apparently not that terrifying
>>> to the 20s public.
>>
>> I agree with most of your quibbles , but not this one. There's a
>> difference between being exposed to the product, and being explicitly
>> told what it is (and isn't). "Hot dog with less than 1% rat hairs" is
>> more terrifying than "hot dog", even if it's the same product.
>> Velveeta was marketed as cheese until laws were passed so that they
>> couldn't do that any more.
>
> I've tasted Velveeta, and frankly, being told what it is cannot be
> more horrifying than actually eating the stuff.

The first time I tasted Velveeta, I'd been hiking in the White
Mountains for a day and a half, and the group of us kids was sitting on
Imp Face, and our guides/leaders/handlers/whatever gave us bagels with
Velveeta on them. It was the most delicious thing I'd ever tasted,
approached only by the hamburger sir-fry stuff we'd had for dinner the
night before.

When I got home from the hike, I importuned by mother into buying some
Velveeta and tried the same meal at home. And hoo boy, was it lousy.

So I'd say Velveeta can be quite good, but you've got to stir in a
liberal amount of physical exertion, spring water, cameraderie and a
stunning location.

kdb

Kurt Busiek wrote:

> On 2007-12-20 11:24:50 -0800, ErictheTolle@gmail.com said:

> > I've tasted Velveeta, and frankly, being told what it is cannot be
> > more horrifying than actually eating the stuff.

[snip story]

> So I'd say Velveeta can be quite good, but you've got to stir in a
> liberal amount of physical exertion, spring water, cameraderie and a
> stunning location.

I grew up on the stuff. We had eight kids, and Velveeta is cheap. It
wasn't particularly tasty eaten on its own. My mother used it for mac
and cheese, grilled cheese sandwiches, cheeseburgers, and other
applications. For that sort of thing, it really wasn't that bad.

I don't eat it anymore (lathough I do get the cold-pack cheddar
spreads), but my memories of it aren't horrible.





Brian

--
If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who
won't shut up.
-- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com)

On Dec 20, 4:45 pm, "Default User" <defaultuse...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I grew up on the stuff. We had eight kids, and Velveeta is cheap. It
> wasn't particularly tasty eaten on its own. My mother used it for mac
> and cheese, grilled cheese sandwiches, cheeseburgers, and other
> applications. For that sort of thing, it really wasn't that bad.

Right. F'rinstance, there's a mexicanoid cheese/bean/jalapeno/etc.
dip made with Velveeta (in addition to real cheeses) that is not only
quite good, it doesn't taste as good if you only use real cheese. At
least to me, and I'm something of a cheese snob.

David Tate

David Tate wrote:

> On Dec 20, 4:45 pm, "Default User" <defaultuse...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > I grew up on the stuff. We had eight kids, and Velveeta is cheap. It
> > wasn't particularly tasty eaten on its own. My mother used it for
> > mac and cheese, grilled cheese sandwiches, cheeseburgers, and other
> > applications. For that sort of thing, it really wasn't that bad.
>
> Right. F'rinstance, there's a mexicanoid cheese/bean/jalapeno/etc.
> dip made with Velveeta (in addition to real cheeses) that is not only
> quite good, it doesn't taste as good if you only use real cheese. At
> least to me, and I'm something of a cheese snob.

Another thing is that hot Velveeta and sausage dip. Bring in a crockpot
of that stuff and some of the "scooper" chips and your cow-orkers will
go wild for it.




Brian

--
If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who
won't shut up.
-- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com)

On 2007-12-20 15:40:00 -0800, "Default User" <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> said:

> David Tate wrote:
>
>> On Dec 20, 4:45 pm, "Default User" <defaultuse...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I grew up on the stuff. We had eight kids, and Velveeta is cheap. It
>>> wasn't particularly tasty eaten on its own. My mother used it for
>>> mac and cheese, grilled cheese sandwiches, cheeseburgers, and other
>>> applications. For that sort of thing, it really wasn't that bad.
>>
>> Right. F'rinstance, there's a mexicanoid cheese/bean/jalapeno/etc.
>> dip made with Velveeta (in addition to real cheeses) that is not only
>> quite good, it doesn't taste as good if you only use real cheese. At
>> least to me, and I'm something of a cheese snob.
>
> Another thing is that hot Velveeta and sausage dip. Bring in a crockpot
> of that stuff and some of the "scooper" chips and your cow-orkers will
> go wild for it.

In between rounds of orking cows, I take it.

Cheese and sausage dip? Sounds good!

kdb

David Tate <dtate@ida.org> wrote:
> On Dec 20, 4:45 pm, "Default User" <defaultuse...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> I grew up on the stuff. We had eight kids, and Velveeta is cheap. It
>> wasn't particularly tasty eaten on its own. My mother used it for mac
>> and cheese, grilled cheese sandwiches, cheeseburgers, and other
>> applications. For that sort of thing, it really wasn't that bad.
>
> Right. F'rinstance, there's a mexicanoid cheese/bean/jalapeno/etc.
> dip made with Velveeta (in addition to real cheeses) that is not only
> quite good, it doesn't taste as good if you only use real cheese. At
> least to me, and I'm something of a cheese snob.

I'd guess you know this yourself, so this is just to amplify:
One of the advantages of using Velveeta in things that require
melted cheese is that while many cheeses "separate" (i.e. produce
an oily/greasy substance) when they melt, Velveeta does not.

For small quantities of cheese, this often doesn't matter, but it can
make a difference for things that require larger quantities like dips,
fondues, etc.

Tony

Kurt Busiek wrote:

> On 2007-12-20 15:40:00 -0800, "Default User"
> <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> said:

> > Another thing is that hot Velveeta and sausage dip. Bring in a
> > crockpot of that stuff and some of the "scooper" chips and your
> > cow-orkers will go wild for it.
>
> In between rounds of orking cows, I take it.

Of course.

> Cheese and sausage dip? Sounds good!

It is pretty good, in an artery-clogging way. Also another thing that
would be hard to do with "real" cheese.





Brian

--
If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who
won't shut up.
-- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com)

David Mitchell wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 11:30:02 -0800, Kurt Busiek wrote:
>
>> I remember being amazed and delightedly aghast at realizing that a jar
>> of stuff in Scott McCloud's other's kitchen was labeled "Kraft 100%
>> Pasteurized Homogenized Processed Cheese Food Spread."
>>
>> It wasn't cheese. It wasn't even cheese food. It was cheese food spread.
>
> I had a similar boggle, when I first encountered "Kraft traditional
> squeezable cheddar cheese".

Such seems to be traditional ... for Kraft.

(Full disclosure: I eat all sorts of ultra-processed "food"
unapologetically. But it's still creepy sometimes.)

--
Robert Hutchinson