In article <2007121913065143658-kurt@busiekcomics>,
Kurt Busiek <kurt@busiek.comics> wrote:
>On 2007-12-19 09:01:37 -0800, Jacey Bedford <lookinsig@nospam.invalid> said:
>
>> Can anyone remember their own first reaction to:
>> * soft toilet paper
>> * central heating
>> * their first refrigerator
>> * colour television (or even television at all)

I can remember seeing very early television at a neighbor's house.
We used to see something called "The Unexpected," mildly
fantasyoid stories (one based on the Monkey's Paw), and we
watched the filmed-and-rushed-across-the-Atlantic footage of
Queen Elizabeth's coronation several times.

We didn't get a television of our own till several years later,
when my father got a job that paid just slightly better than
peanuts. It involved our moving out to a tiny spot in the road
called Kettleman City in the middle of the San Joaquin Valley.
There was only one channel we could get (in Bakersfield, I
think), until we bought a UHF/VHF converter that enabled us to
get two more, from Fresno. There I watched Howdy Doody and
another kids' show called Pinky Lee (and one day the show paused
for a commercial break, and instead of resuming there was an
announcer telling us that Lee had just had a heart attack and
couldn't finish the show. They broadcast LIVE in those days). A
little later on there was the Mickey Mouse Club. It was there
that I got to see "Things to Come" for the first time, and as my
father and I watched it, and that long montage of dates crawling
over the battlefield went by, and they came to "1954" or
thereabouts and my father commented, "We're supposed to be still
fighting it."

I don't remember when we got color television. Much later.

I can also remember a house (it would've been right after the
war, maybe 1946 or -7) which, when we moved into it, didn't have
indoor plumbing. The smell of the privy in the back yard was
very strange, not what you'd expect from what went into it; the
result of fermentation or something maybe. Of course, my father
immediately set to and built on a bathroom, two bedrooms, and I
think he expanded the kitchen.

I can also remember seeing "This is Cinerama" on a proper
Cinerama screen.

Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
djheydt@kithrup.com

On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 21:59:03 GMT, Dorothy J Heydt
<djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote in <news:JtBH2F.8w1@kithrup.com>
in rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.composition:

> In article <2007121913065143658-kurt@busiekcomics>,
> Kurt Busiek <kurt@busiek.comics> wrote:

>>On 2007-12-19 09:01:37 -0800, Jacey Bedford <lookinsig@nospam.invalid> said:

>>> Can anyone remember their own first reaction to:
>>> * soft toilet paper
>>> * central heating
>>> * their first refrigerator
>>> * colour television (or even television at all)

> I can remember seeing very early television at a neighbor's house.
> We used to see something called "The Unexpected," mildly
> fantasyoid stories (one based on the Monkey's Paw), and we
> watched the filmed-and-rushed-across-the-Atlantic footage of
> Queen Elizabeth's coronation several times.

> We didn't get a television of our own till several years later,
> when my father got a job that paid just slightly better than
> peanuts. [...]

> I don't remember when we got color television. Much later.

I don't know when I first saw television; my family didn't
get it until after I went away to college, and we did very
little visiting. The earliest occasion that I actually
remember was a Perry Como Christmas concert that I saw in
color when I was 12 or 13; that may be the first time that I
saw color TV. But I'm sure that I must have seen b&w TV a
time or two before that, even if I don't remember it.

[...]

Brian

In article <otpjm3hj51v9af3fasqagblsu759fhj98n@4ax.com>,
Howard Brazee <howard@brazee.net> wrote:
>On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 15:15:21 -0800, Kurt Busiek <kurt@busiek.comics>
>wrote:
>
>>> I don't remember when we got color television. Much later.
>>
>>I don't remember when we first got a color TV either, but I do remember
>>being very surprised to discover that the Wicked Witch of the West, in
>>THE WIZARD OF OZ, was green.
>
>I do remember my mother telling us kids the point in the showing of
>_The Wizard of Oz_ where it switched to color.

Right ... kind of hard to bring that off on a black and white TV.
I know I saw it in theatres as a rerun sometime in the 1950s.

Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
djheydt@kithrup.com

In article <JtBH2F.8w1@kithrup.com>,
djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) said:

> I can remember seeing very early television at a neighbor's house.
> We used to see something called "The Unexpected," mildly
> fantasyoid stories (one based on the Monkey's Paw), and we watched
> the filmed-and-rushed-across-the-Atlantic footage of Queen
> Elizabeth's coronation several times.

Even taking into account the novelty of television, wasn't the
coronation about as exciting as watching slow-drying paint dry?

--
William December Starr <wdstarr@panix.com>

In article <JtCC88.My3@kithrup.com>,
djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) said:

> In article <fkd9db$412$1@panix2.panix.com>,
> William December Starr <wdstarr@panix.com> wrote:
>
>> Even taking into account the novelty of television, wasn't the
>> coronation about as exciting as watching slow-drying paint dry?
>
> Why, no. At least not to us Yanks. We never have that kind of
> pomp&circumstance over here, let alone with such clothes.

Yes, but I thought that was a *good* thing.

--
William December Starr <wdstarr@panix.com>

djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:

>I can remember seeing very early television at a neighbor's house...
>We didn't get a television of our own till several years later

[Recycled from JamesN's LJ]: I've been scanning in my parents' photo
album from Dallas in the 1950s, when my father worked in PR for
American Airlines, including photo ops for celebrities passing through
town on AA flights.

"Superman" came to TV in the 1952-1953 season, but we didn't have a
set yet. My brother and I begged a place at the neighbors' TV. But
deprivation turned to bliss in 1954: here's a snapshot of me
entranced before our very own Great Gray Eye (9" screen in a 4' high
cabinet). And just below it is a photo of my brother and me at Love
Field with grinning bespectacled George Reeves, the Man of Steel
himself.

Talk about street cred: we were *gods* in the neighborhood for months
afterward.

On Dec 20, 2:23 am, Monte Davis <monte.da...@verizon.net> wrote:

> "Superman" came to TV in the 1952-1953 season, but we didn't have a
> set yet. My brother and I begged a place at the neighbors' TV. But
> deprivation turned to bliss in 1954: here's a snapshot of me
> entranced before our very own Great Gray Eye (9" screen in a 4' high
> cabinet).

1954 was our year also--we got a television because my mother wanted
to watch the Army-McCarthy hearings. My mother seemed absolutely
fascinated with this McCarthy guy, and I asked her why and tried to
figure it out. But the allure was not obvious to my six-year-old
brain.

We kept the television, which allowed more important stuff like Howdy
Doody, Superman, and Crusader Rabbit to be viewed.

And just below it is a photo of my brother and me at Love
> Field with grinning bespectacled George Reeves, the Man of Steel
> himself.
>
> Talk about street cred: we were *gods* in the neighborhood for months
> afterward.

In article <m2d4t1fob6.fsf@rogue.de>, Peter Bruells <usernet@rogue.de> wrote:
>djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>
>> In article <fkd9db$412$1@panix2.panix.com>,
>> William December Starr <wdstarr@panix.com> wrote:
>>>In article <JtBH2F.8w1@kithrup.com>,
>>>djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) said:
>>>
>>>> I can remember seeing very early television at a neighbor's house.
>>>> We used to see something called "The Unexpected," mildly
>>>> fantasyoid stories (one based on the Monkey's Paw), and we watched
>>>> the filmed-and-rushed-across-the-Atlantic footage of Queen
>>>> Elizabeth's coronation several times.
>>>
>>>Even taking into account the novelty of television, wasn't the
>>>coronation about as exciting as watching slow-drying paint dry?
>>
>> Why, no. At least not to us Yanks. We never have that kind of
>> pomp&circumstance over here, let alone with such clothes.
>
>You don't? As a German, Americans seem to be very into pomp and
>circumstance to me. Not on an individual level, but generally.

Not on a national scale. And ... at that point in time ... not
on television. We certainly have occasions when people dress up
flashy, from movie premieres to opening night at the opera. But
there's no ceremony, just dressed-up people walking down red
carpets.

Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
djheydt@kithrup.com

On Dec 20, 9:12 am, djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:

> >You don't? As a German, Americans seem to be very into pomp and
> >circumstance to me. Not on an individual level, but generally.
>
> Not on a national scale. And ... at that point in time ... not
> on television. We certainly have occasions when people dress up
> flashy, from movie premieres to opening night at the opera. But
> there's no ceremony, just dressed-up people walking down red
> carpets.

At some point after the Truman presidency, being US President became
very pomp and circumstance. Nixon promoted the idea, for one.

Gene Ward Smith wrote:
> On Dec 20, 2:23 am, Monte Davis <monte.da...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > "Superman" came to TV in the 1952-1953 season, but we didn't have a
> > set yet. My brother and I begged a place at the neighbors' TV. But
> > deprivation turned to bliss in 1954: here's a snapshot of me
> > entranced before our very own Great Gray Eye (9" screen in a 4' high
> > cabinet).
>
> 1954 was our year also--we got a television because my mother wanted
> to watch the Army-McCarthy hearings. My mother seemed absolutely
> fascinated with this McCarthy guy, and I asked her why and tried to
> figure it out. But the allure was not obvious to my six-year-old
> brain.

My mother claims that was what did it for her family. Her father had
been planning to hold out for color but he hated McCarthy and the
chance to watch McCarthy take on the USArmy was too much for him to
pass it up.

I sometimes wonder about that. A minor University of Kentucky Law
Professor can see it coming that attacking the army that way was
probably a disasterously bad idea, but McCarthy missed it? How stupid
was he? Or had four years of success gone completely to his head? Or
was he desperate for targets? Or did he genuinly believe that there
was a crisis situation with disloyal officers in the military?

Heck the HUAC managed to last decades by picking on celebrities and
others that the public LIKES to see picked on but McCarthy goes and
takes on the USArmy in 1954!?

DougL

On Dec 20, 3:04 pm, DougL <lampert.d...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I sometimes wonder about that. A minor University of Kentucky Law
> Professor can see it coming that attacking the army that way was
> probably a disasterously bad idea, but McCarthy missed it? How stupid
> was he? Or had four years of success gone completely to his head?

Both. Like many politicians, he wasn't especially bright. And his
success had totally gone to his head.

On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 10:31:32 -0800 (PST), Gene Ward Smith
<genewardsmith@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>At some point after the Truman presidency, being US President became
>very pomp and circumstance. Nixon promoted the idea, for one.

But it was in between the two when Kennedy eschewed the top hat.

William December Starr wrote:
> In article <JtBH2F.8w1@kithrup.com>,
> djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) said:
>
>> I can remember seeing very early television at a neighbor's house.
>> We used to see something called "The Unexpected," mildly
>> fantasyoid stories (one based on the Monkey's Paw), and we watched
>> the filmed-and-rushed-across-the-Atlantic footage of Queen
>> Elizabeth's coronation several times.
>
> Even taking into account the novelty of television, wasn't the
> coronation about as exciting as watching slow-drying paint dry?

Well, everybody loves a parade.

We watched it live, via the Atlantic Cable. The reception was gawdawful,
of course, but WE WERE ACTUALLY WATCHING WHAT WAS HAPPENING LIVE IN
ENGLAND!!!!

The initial Telstar broadcast, on the other hand, was equally shocking
because the reception didn't suck.



--
John W. Kennedy
"The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have
always objected to being governed at all."
-- G. K. Chesterton. "The Man Who Was Thursday"

Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <m2d4t1fob6.fsf@rogue.de>, Peter Bruells <usernet@rogue.de> wrote:
>> djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>>
>>> In article <fkd9db$412$1@panix2.panix.com>,
>>> William December Starr <wdstarr@panix.com> wrote:
>>>> In article <JtBH2F.8w1@kithrup.com>,
>>>> djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) said:
>>>>
>>>>> I can remember seeing very early television at a neighbor's house.
>>>>> We used to see something called "The Unexpected," mildly
>>>>> fantasyoid stories (one based on the Monkey's Paw), and we watched
>>>>> the filmed-and-rushed-across-the-Atlantic footage of Queen
>>>>> Elizabeth's coronation several times.
>>>> Even taking into account the novelty of television, wasn't the
>>>> coronation about as exciting as watching slow-drying paint dry?
>>> Why, no. At least not to us Yanks. We never have that kind of
>>> pomp&circumstance over here, let alone with such clothes.
>> You don't? As a German, Americans seem to be very into pomp and
>> circumstance to me. Not on an individual level, but generally.
>
> Not on a national scale. And ... at that point in time ... not
> on television. We certainly have occasions when people dress up
> flashy, from movie premieres to opening night at the opera. But
> there's no ceremony, just dressed-up people walking down red
> carpets.

Well, funerals of sitting presidents....

--
John W. Kennedy
"Though a Rothschild you may be
In your own capacity,
As a Company you've come to utter sorrow--
But the Liquidators say,
'Never mind--you needn't pay,'
So you start another company to-morrow!"
-- Sir William S. Gilbert. "Utopia Limited"

In article <476b2b67$0$31151$607ed4bc@cv.net>
jwkenne@attglobal.net "John W. Kennedy" writes:

> The initial Telstar broadcast, on the other hand, was equally
> shocking because the reception didn't suck.

And nowadays content so often stinks that it might be a blessing
if reception _did_ suck.
--
Andrew Stephenson

John W. Kennedy <jwkenne@attglobal.net> wrote:
> William December Starr wrote:
>> Even taking into account the novelty of television, wasn't the
>> coronation about as exciting as watching slow-drying paint dry?

> We watched it live, via the Atlantic Cable.

No you didn't. The first Atlantic cable capable of carrying voice,
never mind video, wasn't laid until 1956.
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.

Keith F. Lynch wrote:
> John W. Kennedy <jwkenne@attglobal.net> wrote:
>> William December Starr wrote:
>>> Even taking into account the novelty of television, wasn't the
>>> coronation about as exciting as watching slow-drying paint dry?
>
>> We watched it live, via the Atlantic Cable.
>
> No you didn't. The first Atlantic cable capable of carrying voice,
> never mind video, wasn't laid until 1956.

Apparently you're right. Well, I was only four at the time....

--
John W. Kennedy
"The blind rulers of Logres
Nourished the land on a fallacy of rational virtue."
-- Charles Williams. "Taliessin through Logres: Prelude"

In article <V_ydnYCDBYT_tPbanZ2dnUVZ_vumnZ2d@giganews.com>,
mimus <tinmimus99@hotmail.com> sigged:

> I am a Shing. All Shing are liars. Am I, then, a Shing lying to
> you, in which case of course I am not a Shing, but a non-Shing,
> lying? Or is it a lie that all Shing lie? But I am a Shing,
> truly; and truly I lie.
>
> < _City of Illusions_

This is the kind of conversation that can only end in a gunshot.

< _Babylon 5_

--
William December Starr <wdstarr@panix.com>

In message <fkhugs$e53$1@panix3.panix.com>, Keith F. Lynch
<kfl@KeithLynch.net> writes
>John W. Kennedy <jwkenne@attglobal.net> wrote:
>> William December Starr wrote:
>>> Even taking into account the novelty of television, wasn't the
>>> coronation about as exciting as watching slow-drying paint dry?
>
>> We watched it live, via the Atlantic Cable.
>
>No you didn't. The first Atlantic cable capable of carrying voice,
>never mind video, wasn't laid until 1956.

It was broadcast live in the UK on the BBC, both TV and radio. I'd
expect that it would have been available to American broadcasters via SW
radio pretty much immediately. I recall that film of the event was
rushed to member countries of the Commonwealth (like Canada) on board
military jets, but the US had to wait for delivery of the film by
commercial channels, possibly even by ship.
--
To reply, my gmail address is nojay1 Robert Sneddon

Robert Sneddon wrote:
> In message <fkhugs$e53$1@panix3.panix.com>, Keith F. Lynch
> <kfl@KeithLynch.net> writes
>> John W. Kennedy <jwkenne@attglobal.net> wrote:
>>> William December Starr wrote:
>>>> Even taking into account the novelty of television, wasn't the
>>>> coronation about as exciting as watching slow-drying paint dry?
>>> We watched it live, via the Atlantic Cable.
>> No you didn't. The first Atlantic cable capable of carrying voice,
>> never mind video, wasn't laid until 1956.
>
> It was broadcast live in the UK on the BBC, both TV and radio. I'd
> expect that it would have been available to American broadcasters via SW
> radio pretty much immediately. I recall that film of the event was
> rushed to member countries of the Commonwealth (like Canada) on board
> military jets, but the US had to wait for delivery of the film by
> commercial channels, possibly even by ship.

By military, after a fashion, in a complicated deal involving a
newly-built aircraft that was being ferried to its new owners in South
America.

--
John W. Kennedy
"...when you're trying to build a house of cards, the last thing you
should do is blow hard and wave your hands like a madman."
-- Rupert Goodwins

On 3 Jan 2008 23:57:37 GMT, "Default User" <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Forced-air heat is popular in newer houses in the USA because it works
>well with central air-conditioning. The same ductwork and registers are
>used for both.

I've had it in most houses I've lived in, even as a child - but I've
never had central air-conditioning.

On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 17:27:33 -0800, David Friedman
<ddfr@daviddfriedman.nopsam.com> wrote:

>What about "radiant heating"--systems that heat the floors, sometimes
>with electricity? I'm not sure how common they are and have never had
>such a system, but I'm pretty sure I've read about them.

The ancient Romans had them as well.

In article <suarn3p649i5r9tme6aed3g656bn2scaed@4ax.com>,
Howard Brazee <howard@brazee.net> wrote:

> On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 17:27:33 -0800, David Friedman
> <ddfr@daviddfriedman.nopsam.com> wrote:
>
> >What about "radiant heating"--systems that heat the floors, sometimes
> >with electricity? I'm not sure how common they are and have never had
> >such a system, but I'm pretty sure I've read about them.
>
> The ancient Romans had them as well.

Yes.

I have a line in Aristos, the sequel to Harald that I'm not working on
at the moment, when Aristos comes to visit his ex-tutor philosopher
friend, finds the window wide open, and comments that the hypocaust is
to heat the palace, not the city.

--
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/ http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/
Author of _Harald_, a fantasy without magic.
Published by Baen, in bookstores now

:: Forced-air heat is popular in newer houses in the USA because it
:: works well with central air-conditioning. The same ductwork and
:: registers are used for both.

: Howard Brazee <howard@brazee.net>
: I've had it in most houses I've lived in, even as a child - but I've
: never had central air-conditioning.

Ditto. Forced air heat far predating AC. In my childhood home, the
heating system was a venerable old beast which had been converted from
coal to natural gas. So the furnace was a huge affair with room to load
it up with coal and let it burn down.... but with teeny-by-comparison
gas burners in the middle of it all. And the coal chute to the outside
replaced with a teeny window to let light into the basement.

Further, one could argue that the heating ducts "ought" not be used for
cooling, since the heat "ought" to be let out at floor level, and the
cool at ceiling level. Or at least, I've heard it argued, using
anecdotes and handwaving in place of actual studies... but still,
argued. But the simplicity of combining the two is just too appealing,
cost and bother wise.

The house I'm in now has the air vents located more appropriately for
AC, but has only a heater, despite being in a warm-ish climate. Leads
me to guess it was originally intended to have a heat pump, but somebody
swapped in a heater-only. But that's just a guess.


Wayne Throop throopw@sheol.org http://sheol.org/throopw

Wayne Throop <throopw@sheol.org> wrote:
>: Howard Brazee <howard@brazee.net>
>: I've had it in most houses I've lived in, even as a child - but I've
>: never had central air-conditioning.
>
>Ditto. Forced air heat far predating AC. In my childhood home, the
>heating system was a venerable old beast which had been converted from
>coal to natural gas. So the furnace was a huge affair with room to load
>it up with coal and let it burn down.... but with teeny-by-comparison
>gas burners in the middle of it all. And the coal chute to the outside
>replaced with a teeny window to let light into the basement.

ObSF: _The Finches' Fabulous Furnace_ by Drury, dealing with a different type
of natural gas supply than usual...

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 17:27:33 -0800, David Friedman
<ddfr@daviddfriedman.nopsam.com> wrote:
>In article <6hpqn3d3vs88lc7ao0m2h9upfrgkvg26b8@4ax.com>,
> Jasper Janssen <jasper@jjanssen.org> wrote:
>> On Thu, 3 Jan 2008 02:00:50 +0000, Jacey Bedford
>> <lookinsig@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> >Hot air systems are very rare in the UK. It's mostly hot water radiator
>> >systems here.
>>
>> Same in NL. Hot air systems exist, but they're *so* rare that many of them
>> use a hot-water-radiator type furnace with a short loop to a separate heat
>> exchanger, rather than a purpose-built hot-air furnace.
>
>What about "radiant heating"--systems that heat the floors, sometimes
>with electricity? I'm not sure how common they are and have never had
>such a system, but I'm pretty sure I've read about them.

Underfloor heating is fairly common in bigger, newer houses, in the form
of water pipes cast inside the slab. Operated with either a regular
high-efficiency central heating furnace set to 40 degrees C or so (any
hotter than that causes the slab to crack, or at least the floor tiles if
installed, apparently, not to mention being problematic for humans walking
on it), or it can be operated off a furnace set to hotter, but with a
bypass valve that only lets in as much hot water as necessary to keep it
at the set temperature, or it can have a heat exchanger and separate pump.
The latter two systems can be combined with radiators, for example for the
second floor or as additional heat.

In smaller houses and older ones, it usually only pops up, if anywhere, as
a small loop for the kitchen and/or bathroom. Either electric or with the
bypass valve, or one rather crude way is to have the return from the
bathroom radiator make a couple of extra loops through the floor. That
last is not at all recommended practice though.

Some older houses that are redoing the floor of the living area put
floor-heating pipes in, but it pretty much requires a concrete floor
rather than a wooden one as a base.

Jasper