John Schilling
12-19-2007, 09:33 PM
On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 06:40:19 -0800 (PST), "Richard R. Hershberger"
<rrhersh@acme.com> wrote:
>On Dec 17, 1:06 am, "Jason Maxwell" <jasonr...@cox.net> wrote:
>> "William December Starr" <wdst...@panix.com> wrote in messagenews:fk50vn$2hs$1@panix1.panix.com...
>> > > "Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote in message
>> > >news:fk1de3$cr2$1@panix2.panix.com...
>> > >> Each of [Tom Clancy's] books is a great improvement over the ones
>> > >> that followed it.
>> > > Yep, which is why I realized midway through Executive Orders that
>> > > I had wasted my time with the last couple of books, except for the
>> > > final scene of Debt of Honor. Now if I reread I might read Sum of
>> > > All Fears, but that's as far as I'll go.
>> > I'd say that enough aspects of the fighting of the (admittedly, more
>> > absurd than something very absurd indeed) U.S./Japan war make for
>> > fun enough reading to make all of DEBT as much worth reading as SUM.
>> Yeah I can see that, but I'm not sure I could read both of them in a short
>> timeframe. I'd have to take a good break between the two. The manipulation
>> of the stock market meltdown in DEBT sets my teeth on edge.
>> > But yes, [If I, Tom Clancy, Was The] EXECUTIVE [Giving All The] ORDERS
>> > [Then Everything Would Be Perfect!] is effectively unreadable.
>> No kidding. I haven't read any books beyond that one. It had the two-fold
>> problem of Mary Sue and taking the primary character and locking him in an
>> office for the whole of a book in what is supposed to be an "action" series.
>There was a certain fascination with seeing Clancy try to construct a
>military scenario that is close enough to an even fight to be
>interesting.
But he's pretty much always done that. In "Red Storm Rising", he matched
NATO against the two-sigma high-end estimate of Soviet military capability
as of the mid-1980s, which legitimately made for an interesting, close to
even fight. And in works like "Hunt for Red October" and "Patriot Games",
he limited himself to small-unit engagements where the scenario plausibly
limited both sides to roughly equivalent forces with the Bad Guys bringing
their A Team.
[...]
>In later books he pretty much gives up the attempt, and instead reveals that
>anyone who has ever thought >kindly about the Sierra Club is a mass murderer,
>and he has the Chinese (who are particularly evil, and sexual deviants to boot)
>attack the noble-but-hapless Russians.
In later books he is so far brain-eaten that the "by Famous Author (and
unknown author) = really written by unknown author" makes for a positive
recommendation, but I don't think it's because of his attempts to set up
a Fair Fight.
And I do stand with those who think that "Debt of Honor" was the last of
his solo works to be worth reading. I don't even begrudge him pulling the
strings to set up President John Patrick Mary Sue Ryan, as a fitting way
to close out the series.
The End. Oh, God, were it The End.
--
*John Schilling * "Anything worth doing, *
*Member:AIAA,NRA,ACLU,SAS,LP * is worth doing for money" *
*Chief Scientist & General Partner * -13th Rule of Acquisition *
*White Elephant Research, LLC * "There is no substitute *
*John.Schilling@alumni.usc.edu * for success" *
*661-951-9107 or 661-275-6795 * -58th Rule of Acquisition *
<rrhersh@acme.com> wrote:
>On Dec 17, 1:06 am, "Jason Maxwell" <jasonr...@cox.net> wrote:
>> "William December Starr" <wdst...@panix.com> wrote in messagenews:fk50vn$2hs$1@panix1.panix.com...
>> > > "Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote in message
>> > >news:fk1de3$cr2$1@panix2.panix.com...
>> > >> Each of [Tom Clancy's] books is a great improvement over the ones
>> > >> that followed it.
>> > > Yep, which is why I realized midway through Executive Orders that
>> > > I had wasted my time with the last couple of books, except for the
>> > > final scene of Debt of Honor. Now if I reread I might read Sum of
>> > > All Fears, but that's as far as I'll go.
>> > I'd say that enough aspects of the fighting of the (admittedly, more
>> > absurd than something very absurd indeed) U.S./Japan war make for
>> > fun enough reading to make all of DEBT as much worth reading as SUM.
>> Yeah I can see that, but I'm not sure I could read both of them in a short
>> timeframe. I'd have to take a good break between the two. The manipulation
>> of the stock market meltdown in DEBT sets my teeth on edge.
>> > But yes, [If I, Tom Clancy, Was The] EXECUTIVE [Giving All The] ORDERS
>> > [Then Everything Would Be Perfect!] is effectively unreadable.
>> No kidding. I haven't read any books beyond that one. It had the two-fold
>> problem of Mary Sue and taking the primary character and locking him in an
>> office for the whole of a book in what is supposed to be an "action" series.
>There was a certain fascination with seeing Clancy try to construct a
>military scenario that is close enough to an even fight to be
>interesting.
But he's pretty much always done that. In "Red Storm Rising", he matched
NATO against the two-sigma high-end estimate of Soviet military capability
as of the mid-1980s, which legitimately made for an interesting, close to
even fight. And in works like "Hunt for Red October" and "Patriot Games",
he limited himself to small-unit engagements where the scenario plausibly
limited both sides to roughly equivalent forces with the Bad Guys bringing
their A Team.
[...]
>In later books he pretty much gives up the attempt, and instead reveals that
>anyone who has ever thought >kindly about the Sierra Club is a mass murderer,
>and he has the Chinese (who are particularly evil, and sexual deviants to boot)
>attack the noble-but-hapless Russians.
In later books he is so far brain-eaten that the "by Famous Author (and
unknown author) = really written by unknown author" makes for a positive
recommendation, but I don't think it's because of his attempts to set up
a Fair Fight.
And I do stand with those who think that "Debt of Honor" was the last of
his solo works to be worth reading. I don't even begrudge him pulling the
strings to set up President John Patrick Mary Sue Ryan, as a fitting way
to close out the series.
The End. Oh, God, were it The End.
--
*John Schilling * "Anything worth doing, *
*Member:AIAA,NRA,ACLU,SAS,LP * is worth doing for money" *
*Chief Scientist & General Partner * -13th Rule of Acquisition *
*White Elephant Research, LLC * "There is no substitute *
*John.Schilling@alumni.usc.edu * for success" *
*661-951-9107 or 661-275-6795 * -58th Rule of Acquisition *