http://moviesblog.mtv.com/2007/12/21/confirmed-peter-berg-will-direct-dune-talking-with-tom-cruise-about-edwin-a-salt/

Saw this on Fark.com, I guess there's some credence to it. We have the
Lynch version that strayed a bit with artistic license, the SciFi
channel version that was close to the plot (but no thought-voice,
which always annoyed me), and now a new version to ponder on.

On Dec 22, 1:53 pm, Unfeign <chris.moce...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://moviesblog.mtv.com/2007/12/21/confirmed-peter-berg-will-direct...
>
> Saw this on Fark.com, I guess there's some credence to it. We have the
> Lynch version that strayed a bit with artistic license, the SciFi
> channel version that was close to the plot (but no thought-voice,
> which always annoyed me), and now a new version to ponder on.

Evidently Byron Merritt has denied this on the DuneNovels.com BBS,
saying that the lawyers are still negotiating.

Who knows?

"Unfeign" <chris.mocella@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e77e31ab-5ad9-4125-a6d8-64ba3f87d5ea@1g2000hsl.googlegroups.com...
> http://moviesblog.mtv.com/2007/12/21/confirmed-peter-berg-will-direct-dune-talking-with-tom-cruise-about-edwin-a-salt/
>
> Saw this on Fark.com, I guess there's some credence to it. We have the
> Lynch version that strayed a bit with artistic license, the SciFi
> channel version that was close to the plot (but no thought-voice,
> which always annoyed me), and now a new version to ponder on.

Oh goody. Anther opportunity for some director to make completely asinine
changes to a sci-fi classic.

--Ty

"Oh goody. Anther opportunity for some director to make completely asinine
changes to a sci-fi classic."
>
> --Ty

Hear hear. IMHO, every single attempt to "translate" Dune or the DC into
pap for the masses is unsuccessful, simply because the concepts and crafting
that make it as popular as it is do not suffer watering-down well. Given
the nature of the mass entertainment audience, the only choice for any
director to make is to water it down to the simplistic "Paul Good, Baron
Evil" level, at which point...what's the point? Why make just another Space
Opera that bears only the *name* of Dune? Without extensive cheesy
voiceovers, the book can't be done, and *with* extensive cheesy voiceovers,
it's just...cheesy. The DC is more about what ISN'T said, what ISN'T seen,
what DOESN'T happen. I can't imagine any filmmaker doing justice to that in
a medium like film. There are some things that simply aren't meant or
intended to be watered down.

Hitch

"Ty" <tybeardSPAAM@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:8Hicj.1652$pr6.932@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com...
> "Unfeign" <chris.mocella@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:e77e31ab-5ad9-4125-a6d8-64ba3f87d5ea@1g2000hsl.googlegroups.com...
>> http://moviesblog.mtv.com/2007/12/21/confirmed-peter-berg-will-direct-dune-talking-with-tom-cruise-about-edwin-a-salt/
>>
>> Saw this on Fark.com, I guess there's some credence to it. We have the
>> Lynch version that strayed a bit with artistic license, the SciFi
>> channel version that was close to the plot (but no thought-voice,
>> which always annoyed me), and now a new version to ponder on.
>
>
>
>

"Hitch" <hitch@qwest.net> wrote on 04 Jan 2008:

> There are some things that simply aren't meant or
> intended to be watered down.
>

All that you say in the last post may be true but I don't think that
precludes anyone from trying (nor should it). As far as I'm concerned,
there is nothing that is so sacrosanct or untouchable, certainly no
written work, that deserves to be left alone lest the bad movie that
results from it "ruin" the reading experience somehow. Is a bad
interpretation disappointing? Yes. However, I think it then merely becomes
a curiosity or simply forgotten while the book remains in its original
form ready to enjoy.

Splicer wrote:
> "Hitch" <hitch@qwest.net> wrote on 04 Jan 2008:
>
>
>>There are some things that simply aren't meant or
>>intended to be watered down.
>>
>
>
> All that you say in the last post may be true but I don't think that
> precludes anyone from trying (nor should it). As far as I'm concerned,
> there is nothing that is so sacrosanct or untouchable, certainly no
> written work, that deserves to be left alone lest the bad movie that
> results from it "ruin" the reading experience somehow. Is a bad
> interpretation disappointing? Yes. However, I think it then merely becomes
> a curiosity or simply forgotten while the book remains in its original
> form ready to enjoy.

I have enjoyed both the Lynch effort and the mini-series on some
levels. Since Dune is a written original, I don't hold other media
interpretations to a high standard, since they are already at variance
with the original format. Still, I would like to see a more straight
forward attempt, understanding the need for changes since some things
would, by necessity, have to be modified. I'd love to see the basic
dress and character natures preserved, especially the Bene Gesserit in
simple robes and the Baron portrayed as a brilliant but ruthless
grasping leader.

WM

Splicer:

You misunderstand me. I don't believe that anyone should be precluded from
TRYING to make a bad movie. :-) Gods know, it hasn't stopped anyone else.

Nor do I think that any bad movie "ruins" the reading experience; I do
think, however, that a bad movie can deter people from *attempting* the
reading experience, whilst a good or great movie can bring new readers to
the book that was the genesis for the film, witness TLOTR-movies' success in
driving (new) book sales. <shrug>. Ditto Blade Runner for DADOES - and we
all know that the disparity there was quite great. I've said here before
(zoiks...nearly 12 freaking years ago!!) that I somewhat like the Lynch
film, despite its myriad flaws, and that I thought it had brought numerous
new readers to the Chronicles, which was a good thing.

I admit being less enthusiastic about the two mini-series; perhaps I was
simply jaded by the time they arrived.

Lastly, I also suspect that Berg is more interested in Dune as an Iraq War
allegory, and less about the sci-fi. JMHO. Nothing wrong with Dune as
political commentary - after all, it IS political commentary - but I prefer
it as FH's political commentary, not someone else's spin thereupon.

Hitch

"Splicer" <nomail@nomail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A1B4153432A0Splicer@216.196.97.131...
> "Hitch" <hitch@qwest.net> wrote on 04 Jan 2008:
>
>> There are some things that simply aren't meant or
>> intended to be watered down.
>>
>
> All that you say in the last post may be true but I don't think that
> precludes anyone from trying (nor should it). As far as I'm concerned,
> there is nothing that is so sacrosanct or untouchable, certainly no
> written work, that deserves to be left alone lest the bad movie that
> results from it "ruin" the reading experience somehow. Is a bad
> interpretation disappointing? Yes. However, I think it then merely becomes
> a curiosity or simply forgotten while the book remains in its original
> form ready to enjoy.

"Hitch" <hitch@qwest.net> wrote on 04 Jan 2008:

> Lastly, I also suspect that Berg is more interested in Dune as an
> Iraq War allegory, and less about the sci-fi. JMHO. Nothing wrong
> with Dune as political commentary - after all, it IS political
> commentary - but I prefer it as FH's political commentary, not
> someone else's spin thereupon.
>

I found the Lynch version interesting and embarrassing all at the same
time. I loved the book, had read it three times before the movie came out
and was critical of some of the changes (and some of the acting) but
accepted the film as merely Lynch's oddball interpretation. I still have
not seen either mini-series.

As for the vision thing: FH had a vision and it's pretty much on every
page of Dune. Whether film, series, sequel or stage production (none that
I know of), any interpretation of the original by other artists will
invariably include the perspective of the artist which may differ wildly
from FH's.

Wild Monkshood <Wild_Monkshood@windstream.net> wrote on 04 Jan 2008:

> I'd love to see the basic
> dress and character natures preserved, especially the Bene Gesserit in
> simple robes and the Baron portrayed as a brilliant but ruthless
> grasping leader.
>

I found the portrayal in the Lynch film to be too buffoonish for my taste
although the sadism ("a little bit of spittle on your head...ah, what a
luxury), I thought, was perfect.

I have not enjoyed some of the reworkings as done by Brian Herbert and
Kevin Anderson - especially Rabban. Yes, he's an evil SOB but Herbert and
Anderson are constantly shoving it down our throats that he's Mr. Super
Evil in gory detail. I find it excessive and hamhanded.

"Hitch" <hitch@qwest.net> wrote in message
news:477ea023$0$503$815e3792@news.qwest.net...

> Lastly, I also suspect that Berg is more interested in Dune as an Iraq War
> allegory, and less about the sci-fi.

If you're correct, Dune will be distorted beyond all recognition. Hold me
back.

--Ty

"Hitch" <hitch@qwest.net> wrote in message
news:477ea023$0$503$815e3792@news.qwest.net...

> Lastly, I also suspect that Berg is more interested in Dune as an Iraq War
> allegory, and less about the sci-fi. JMHO. Nothing wrong with Dune as
> political commentary - after all, it IS political commentary - but I
> prefer it as FH's political commentary, not someone else's spin thereupon.

Indeed.

This 2004 spoof *should* serve as a warning to those who read what they want
into Dune:

http://www.sgtstryker.com/

***

The Democratic Debate

***

"Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the first Democratic primary
debate of 2004. I'm Jim Lehrer and I will be the moderator for tonight's
debate. We'll begin with Congressman Kucinich. Mr. Kucinich, you've
criticized President Bush for the War with Iraq and the subsequent post-war
situation. If you had been President, what would you have done differently?"

"Well, Jim-"

"Mr. Kucinich, we are neither friends nor intimates. Such familiarity is
inappropriate for this forum and indicates a lack of respect for myself and
the viewing audience. You will address me as 'Mr. Lehrer.'"

"Uh...Mr. Lehrer, I believe President Bush's illegal war in Iraq hurt our
credibility abroad and began the first steps towards dictatorship in our own
country. Unlike the selected President, I have a greater understanding of
the Middle East and its people. You see, the 'Fremen', who've lived in that
desert land for ages, are awaiting the voice from the stars who will deliver
them from the Harkkonens, which is what they call the Bush Administration."

"Mr. Kucinich, you are obviously referring to 'Dune", a story set thousands
of years in the future, involving a desert planet that is the only source of
the spice melange in the Universe. The Fremen, a zen-sunni sect, were a
wandering and persecuted people vaguely reminiscent of the Bedouin. Their
language and customs, while a fanciful variant of Arabic, are not Arabic,
but rather the interesting creation of a gifted and quirky Westerner."

"But-"

"Mr. Kucinich, the book can be interpreted as a metaphor of the Middle East
and its oil, but it is not an accurate depiction of the Middle East or its
people. Governer Dean, you'd like to respond to Mr. Kucinich?"

"Unlike my opponent, I do know that Dune is a metaphor. It's also my
favorite book in the Bible,"

"Mr. Dean, Dune is not a book in the Bible. It is a work of fiction from the
mind of Frank Herbert and was published in 1965."

"I'd like to give a shout-out to all my friends and supporters tonight. I
will treat you well, my sweet angels, so help me Jesus!"

"Mr. Dean-"

***
--Ty

> Hitch wrote
>
> Nor do I think that any bad movie "ruins" the reading experience; I do
> think, however, that a bad movie can deter people from *attempting*
> the reading experience, whilst a good or great movie can bring new
> readers to the book that was the genesis for the film, witness TLOTR-
> movies' success in driving (new) book sales.

Good or bad, a movie adaptation is likely to increase book
sales for any book simply because X number of people who
never heard of the story, will now be aware of it.

But IMO there are three fundamental problems with adapting a
story like "Dune" or "LotR" to film; time, money and Hollywood's
arrogance.

With Lynch's "Dune", 1-1/2 hours (or even 3 hrs for the "special
edition") was simply not enough time to do the story and this only
reinforced the arrogance of Hollywood and their belief that they
could write a better story then Frank Herbert.

The Sci-Fi Channel's version, being a TV mini-series, had enough
time (or would have, had they continued with the series) but they
didn't have enough cash to do it right, which again reinforces the
arrogance of Hollywood and their belief that they could write a
better story then Frank Herbert.

And then there are the cases of stories like "Starship Troopers"
and the "Conan" series, where Hollywood flat out didn't give a
damm about the original stories, seeing them only as something
to loot for the title and a few character names.

Now the time and money issues can be overcome, but I don't
think anything can put the breaks on Hollywood's arrogance....

No matter what, Hollywood will always believe that they are
better artists then the original author because if they were to
think otherwise, it would require them to acknowledge the fact
that they are (for the most part) nothing more then technicians
who would all (from the director on down to the janitor) be out
of a job if it wasn't for the original author.

Even with a film like "LotR", which had tons of cash behind it
and several hours to do the story and purportedly a director
who was a big time fan of the original story, Hollywood still felt
the need to include numerous useless and stupid changes to the
story, ignoring the fact that the original story has sold a bazillion
copies all over the world and that the author just might have
been on to something.

And the same thing will happen with this latest version of "Dune",
it will suck *** because a theatrical film doesn't provide enough
time to do the story, so Hollywood will edit and re-write the ****
out of the story to make it fit a 1.5-2 hr time frame.

Hi, Ty:

I confess....after giving this some thought, assuming arguendo that the
movie WILL indubitably veer from FH's vision, I think it could be FUN. I
mean, what the heck...howza 'bout "Ang Lee's Dune: Witches on Wires?" We
could gasp in awe at Jessica's martial arts capabilities as she flies over
Stilgar's head, performs a triple somersault and ends in a Matrix-like crane
stance, prepared to wreak havoc if her son is not spared. Or "Spicing
Dukeling, Hidden Kwisatz," in which Chani dons ninja gear, carries a
Crys-sword, and vaults from one "building" to another in a fremen sietch.
And let's not forget the BIG FINISH...the fight between Paul and Feyd. It's
a shame that Sting has, like the rest of us, aged; I thought he was cracking
as Feyd, (okay, I admit it, not in any acting sense, but whooo doggie, he
was nice just to ogle...) but now he could play Fenring; Paul and Feyd could
"duke it out" <groan> in a "Majesty: Revolutions" slapdown in the rain,
wherein as Feyd loses, after being power-kicked blocks away in Arrakeen, he
could slough away, revealing that underneath his flesh suit is....Reverend
Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam!!!

Sorry...I just simply could NOT resist. The lure of the ridiculous was
overwhelming. If a "Dune" movie or DC movie comes out, I'll try it, of
course...but I suspect it would be hard to disappoint expectations as low as
mine. :-)

Hitch

"Ty" <tybeardSPAAM@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:vQHfj.36484$Pv2.9390@newssvr23.news.prodigy.n et...
> "Hitch" <hitch@qwest.net> wrote in message
> news:477ea023$0$503$815e3792@news.qwest.net...
>
>> Lastly, I also suspect that Berg is more interested in Dune as an Iraq
>> War allegory, and less about the sci-fi. JMHO. Nothing wrong with Dune
>> as political commentary - after all, it IS political commentary - but I
>> prefer it as FH's political commentary, not someone else's spin
>> thereupon.
>
> Indeed.
>
> This 2004 spoof *should* serve as a warning to those who read what they
> want into Dune:
>
> http://www.sgtstryker.com/
>
> ***
>
> The Democratic Debate
>
> ***
>
> "Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the first Democratic
> primary
> debate of 2004. I'm Jim Lehrer and I will be the moderator for tonight's
> debate. We'll begin with Congressman Kucinich. Mr. Kucinich, you've
> criticized President Bush for the War with Iraq and the subsequent
> post-war
> situation. If you had been President, what would you have done
> differently?"
>
> "Well, Jim-"
>
> "Mr. Kucinich, we are neither friends nor intimates. Such familiarity is
> inappropriate for this forum and indicates a lack of respect for myself
> and
> the viewing audience. You will address me as 'Mr. Lehrer.'"
>
> "Uh...Mr. Lehrer, I believe President Bush's illegal war in Iraq hurt our
> credibility abroad and began the first steps towards dictatorship in our
> own
> country. Unlike the selected President, I have a greater understanding of
> the Middle East and its people. You see, the 'Fremen', who've lived in
> that
> desert land for ages, are awaiting the voice from the stars who will
> deliver
> them from the Harkkonens, which is what they call the Bush
> Administration."
>
> "Mr. Kucinich, you are obviously referring to 'Dune", a story set
> thousands
> of years in the future, involving a desert planet that is the only source
> of
> the spice melange in the Universe. The Fremen, a zen-sunni sect, were a
> wandering and persecuted people vaguely reminiscent of the Bedouin. Their
> language and customs, while a fanciful variant of Arabic, are not Arabic,
> but rather the interesting creation of a gifted and quirky Westerner."
>
> "But-"
>
> "Mr. Kucinich, the book can be interpreted as a metaphor of the Middle
> East
> and its oil, but it is not an accurate depiction of the Middle East or its
> people. Governer Dean, you'd like to respond to Mr. Kucinich?"
>
> "Unlike my opponent, I do know that Dune is a metaphor. It's also my
> favorite book in the Bible,"
>
> "Mr. Dean, Dune is not a book in the Bible. It is a work of fiction from
> the
> mind of Frank Herbert and was published in 1965."
>
> "I'd like to give a shout-out to all my friends and supporters tonight. I
> will treat you well, my sweet angels, so help me Jesus!"
>
> "Mr. Dean-"
>
> ***
> --Ty
>