Is Owen unredeemable?

"peachy ashie passion" <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:TADcj.3969$nh7.2825@trnddc01...
> Is Owen unredeemable?

Frankly, I don't care if he's redeemed or not; he'll always be a slimy
little bastard to me.

Victor Velazquez wrote:

> "peachy ashie passion" <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:TADcj.3969$nh7.2825@trnddc01...
>
>>Is Owen unredeemable?
>
>
> Frankly, I don't care if he's redeemed or not; he'll always be a slimy
> little bastard to me.
>
>

Well, that's kind of what I meant... so in your eyes, he is so bad,
nothing will ever make him likeable?

In article <TADcj.3969$nh7.2825@trnddc01>,
peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Is Owen unredeemable?

Is this a new thread?

--
Jitterbug phones:
The bill may be completely wrong every month
but at least the service doesn't work
At all.

"peachy ashie passion" <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ecEcj.19801$6V3.8303@trnddc08...
> Victor Velazquez wrote:
>
>> "peachy ashie passion" <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:TADcj.3969$nh7.2825@trnddc01...
>>
>>>Is Owen unredeemable?
>>
>>
>> Frankly, I don't care if he's redeemed or not; he'll always be a slimy
>> little bastard to me.
>
> Well, that's kind of what I meant... so in your eyes, he is so bad,
> nothing will ever make him likeable?

I suppose he could become likeable by cutting out the angsty tough guy act
and being less of a dick. I just don't see it happening.

Anim8rFSK wrote:
> In article <TADcj.3969$nh7.2825@trnddc01>,
> peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Is Owen unredeemable?
>
>
> Is this a new thread?
>

It is!

Yeah, I shoulda been more specific with the thread title.

I spose I save my imagination for other things.

Victor Velazquez wrote:

> "peachy ashie passion" <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:ecEcj.19801$6V3.8303@trnddc08...
>
>>Victor Velazquez wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"peachy ashie passion" <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:TADcj.3969$nh7.2825@trnddc01...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Is Owen unredeemable?
>>>
>>>
>>>Frankly, I don't care if he's redeemed or not; he'll always be a slimy
>>>little bastard to me.
>>
>> Well, that's kind of what I meant... so in your eyes, he is so bad,
>>nothing will ever make him likeable?
>
>
> I suppose he could become likeable by cutting out the angsty tough guy act
> and being less of a dick. I just don't see it happening.
>
>

Serious?

Did you like him better before he was angsty?

Because I sure didn't.

In article <yOmdnT60ZdrMhe7anZ2dnUVZ_gCdnZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Victor Velazquez" <k-canute@hotmail.com> wrote:

> "peachy ashie passion" <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:ecEcj.19801$6V3.8303@trnddc08...
> > Victor Velazquez wrote:
> >
> >> "peachy ashie passion" <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >> news:TADcj.3969$nh7.2825@trnddc01...
> >>
> >>>Is Owen unredeemable?
> >>
> >>
> >> Frankly, I don't care if he's redeemed or not; he'll always be a slimy
> >> little bastard to me.
> >
> > Well, that's kind of what I meant... so in your eyes, he is so bad,
> > nothing will ever make him likeable?
>
> I suppose he could become likeable by cutting out the angsty tough guy act
> and being less of a dick. I just don't see it happening.

Or he could become likeble by cutting off his dick and giving us less of
the angsty tough guy act. I'd enjoy seeing that happening.

--
Jitterbug phones:
The bill may be completely wrong every month
but at least the service doesn't work
At all.

On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 01:53:55 GMT, peachy ashie passion
<exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Is Owen unredeemable?


Repentance may make him redeemable.

"peachy ashie passion" <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:TADcj.3969$nh7.2825@trnddc01...
> Is Owen unredeemable?

No.

-- Ken from Chicago

peachy ashie passion wrote:
> Is Owen unredeemable?

Well, he cried and was told he was forgiven. That's usually TV
shorthand for "he's been redeemed. you must like him now."

--
-Baerana
http://www.baerana.com/
livejournal - http://baerana.livejournal.com/

"peachy ashie passion" <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:OgGcj.8328$1q4.1101@trnddc06...
> Victor Velazquez wrote:
>
>> "peachy ashie passion" <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:ecEcj.19801$6V3.8303@trnddc08...
>>
>>>Victor Velazquez wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"peachy ashie passion" <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:TADcj.3969$nh7.2825@trnddc01...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Is Owen unredeemable?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Frankly, I don't care if he's redeemed or not; he'll always be a slimy
>>>>little bastard to me.
>>>
>>> Well, that's kind of what I meant... so in your eyes, he is so bad,
>>> nothing will ever make him likeable?
>>
>>
>> I suppose he could become likeable by cutting out the angsty tough guy
>> act and being less of a dick. I just don't see it happening.
>
> Serious?
>
> Did you like him better before he was angsty?
>
> Because I sure didn't.

Good point. Maybe he is unredeemable?

In article <TADcj.3969$nh7.2825@trnddc01>,
peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Is Owen unredeemable?

We shall see if he repents from his evil ways.
--
Member - Liberal International
This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!
Merry CHRISTmas 2007 and Happy New Year 2008! CHRIST is the reason for the season!

Will you stop flooding

--
Socrates taught his students that the pursuit of truth can only begin once
they start to question and analyze every belief that they ever held dear. If
a certain belief passes the tests of evidence, deduction, and logic, it
should be kept. If it doesn't, the belief should not only be discarded, but
the thinker must also then question why he was led to believe the erroneous


"The Doctor" <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
news:fl0ehv$e56$5@gallifrey.nk.ca...
> In article <TADcj.3969$nh7.2825@trnddc01>,
> peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >Is Owen unredeemable?
>
> We shall see if he repents from his evil ways.
> --
> Member - Liberal International
> This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
> God, Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!
> Merry CHRISTmas 2007 and Happy New Year 2008! CHRIST is the reason for the
season!

In article <uMydnW7h7o-zlO7anZ2dnUVZ_uOmnZ2d@comcast.com>,
Victor Velazquez <k-canute@hotmail.com> wrote:
>"peachy ashie passion" <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:TADcj.3969$nh7.2825@trnddc01...
>> Is Owen unredeemable?
>
>Frankly, I don't care if he's redeemed or not; he'll always be a slimy
>little bastard to me.
>
>

He would have sex with anything that wears a skirt.
--
Member - Liberal International
This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!
Merry CHRISTmas 2007 and Happy New Year 2008! CHRIST is the reason for the season!

And you only with guys

--
Socrates taught his students that the pursuit of truth can only begin once
they start to question and analyze every belief that they ever held dear. If
a certain belief passes the tests of evidence, deduction, and logic, it
should be kept. If it doesn't, the belief should not only be discarded, but
the thinker must also then question why he was led to believe the erroneous


"The Doctor" <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
news:fl0ek2$e56$7@gallifrey.nk.ca...
> In article <uMydnW7h7o-zlO7anZ2dnUVZ_uOmnZ2d@comcast.com>,
> Victor Velazquez <k-canute@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >"peachy ashie passion" <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:TADcj.3969$nh7.2825@trnddc01...
> >> Is Owen unredeemable?
> >
> >Frankly, I don't care if he's redeemed or not; he'll always be a slimy
> >little bastard to me.
> >
> >
>
> He would have sex with anything that wears a skirt.
> --
> Member - Liberal International
> This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
> God, Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!
> Merry CHRISTmas 2007 and Happy New Year 2008! CHRIST is the reason for the
season!

In article <ecEcj.19801$6V3.8303@trnddc08>,
peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Victor Velazquez wrote:
>
>> "peachy ashie passion" <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:TADcj.3969$nh7.2825@trnddc01...
>>
>>>Is Owen unredeemable?
>>
>>
>> Frankly, I don't care if he's redeemed or not; he'll always be a slimy
>> little bastard to me.
>>
>>
>
> Well, that's kind of what I meant... so in your eyes, he is so bad,
>nothing will ever make him likeable?

I hope Rhys does a number on Owen.

Recall Canada has yet to see the last 3 episodes.
--
Member - Liberal International
This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!
Merry CHRISTmas 2007 and Happy New Year 2008! CHRIST is the reason for the season!

In article <ANIM8Rfsk-D109C3.19510226122007@news.west.cox.net>,
Anim8rFSK <ANIM8Rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>In article <TADcj.3969$nh7.2825@trnddc01>,
> peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Is Owen unredeemable?
>
>Is this a new thread?
>

Yes.
--
Member - Liberal International
This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!
Merry CHRISTmas 2007 and Happy New Year 2008! CHRIST is the reason for the season!

In article <3gGcj.8323$1q4.3994@trnddc06>,
peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Anim8rFSK wrote:
>> In article <TADcj.3969$nh7.2825@trnddc01>,
>> peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Is Owen unredeemable?
>>
>>
>> Is this a new thread?
>>
>
> It is!
>
> Yeah, I shoulda been more specific with the thread title.
>
> I spose I save my imagination for other things.

LOL!
--
Member - Liberal International
This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!
Merry CHRISTmas 2007 and Happy New Year 2008! CHRIST is the reason for the season!

Canadians downloaded but you only have a 33k modem LOL

--
Socrates taught his students that the pursuit of truth can only begin once
they start to question and analyze every belief that they ever held dear. If
a certain belief passes the tests of evidence, deduction, and logic, it
should be kept. If it doesn't, the belief should not only be discarded, but
the thinker must also then question why he was led to believe the erroneous


"The Doctor" <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
news:fl0ems$e56$9@gallifrey.nk.ca...
> In article <ecEcj.19801$6V3.8303@trnddc08>,
> peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Well, that's kind of what I meant... so in your eyes, he is so bad,
> >nothing will ever make him likeable?
>
> I hope Rhys does a number on Owen.
>
> Recall Canada has yet to see the last 3 episodes.
> --
> Member - Liberal International
> This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
> God, Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!
> Merry CHRISTmas 2007 and Happy New Year 2008! CHRIST is the reason for the
season!

TWERP

--
Socrates taught his students that the pursuit of truth can only begin once
they start to question and analyze every belief that they ever held dear. If
a certain belief passes the tests of evidence, deduction, and logic, it
should be kept. If it doesn't, the belief should not only be discarded, but
the thinker must also then question why he was led to believe the erroneous


"The Doctor" <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
news:fl0enb$e56$10@gallifrey.nk.ca...
> In article <ANIM8Rfsk-D109C3.19510226122007@news.west.cox.net>,
> Anim8rFSK <ANIM8Rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
> >In article <TADcj.3969$nh7.2825@trnddc01>,
> > peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Is Owen unredeemable?
> >
> >Is this a new thread?
> >
>
> Yes.
> --
> Member - Liberal International
> This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
> God, Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!
> Merry CHRISTmas 2007 and Happy New Year 2008! CHRIST is the reason for the
season!

In article <07r6n39cr663aeuarhtjf1bi2hpnear31e@4ax.com>,
Wayne J. Kinsella <kinsella1970@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 01:53:55 GMT, peachy ashie passion
><exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Is Owen unredeemable?
>
>
>Repentance may make him redeemable.

Just like Top Poster.
--
Member - Liberal International
This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!
Merry CHRISTmas 2007 and Happy New Year 2008! CHRIST is the reason for the season!

TWERP

--
Socrates taught his students that the pursuit of truth can only begin once
they start to question and analyze every belief that they ever held dear. If
a certain belief passes the tests of evidence, deduction, and logic, it
should be kept. If it doesn't, the belief should not only be discarded, but
the thinker must also then question why he was led to believe the erroneous


"The Doctor" <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
news:fl0eqb$e56$13@gallifrey.nk.ca...
> In article <3gGcj.8323$1q4.3994@trnddc06>,
> peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >Anim8rFSK wrote:
> >> In article <TADcj.3969$nh7.2825@trnddc01>,
> >> peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Is Owen unredeemable?
> >>
> >>
> >> Is this a new thread?
> >>
> >
> > It is!
> >
> > Yeah, I shoulda been more specific with the thread title.
> >
> > I spose I save my imagination for other things.
>
> LOL!
> --
> Member - Liberal International
> This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
> God, Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!
> Merry CHRISTmas 2007 and Happy New Year 2008! CHRIST is the reason for the
season!

Silly girl

--
Socrates taught his students that the pursuit of truth can only begin once
they start to question and analyze every belief that they ever held dear. If
a certain belief passes the tests of evidence, deduction, and logic, it
should be kept. If it doesn't, the belief should not only be discarded, but
the thinker must also then question why he was led to believe the erroneous


"The Doctor" <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
news:fl0etl$e56$14@gallifrey.nk.ca...
> In article <07r6n39cr663aeuarhtjf1bi2hpnear31e@4ax.com>,
> Wayne J. Kinsella <kinsella1970@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 01:53:55 GMT, peachy ashie passion
> ><exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>Is Owen unredeemable?
> >
> >
> >Repentance may make him redeemable.
>
> Just like Top Poster.
> --
> Member - Liberal International
> This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
> God, Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!
> Merry CHRISTmas 2007 and Happy New Year 2008! CHRIST is the reason for the
season!

Baerana wrote:

> peachy ashie passion wrote:
>
>> Is Owen unredeemable?


SPOILERS FOR ENTIRE SEASON ONE

*
*
*
*
*
*
*

>
>
> Well, he cried and was told he was forgiven. That's usually TV
> shorthand for "he's been redeemed. you must like him now."
>


Well, yes.

But the problem with the TV shorthand there is that the TV characters
only are forgiving him for shooting Jack.

Most of the viewers who hate him, hated him before he shot Jack, back
when the characters didn't have something to forgive him for.

I really believed he was supposed to have started as an ***, and his
redemption story was supposed to have started with his falling in love
and that loss.

He felt great emotional pain, got suicidal, went a little crazy and
sacrificed the world to save his teammates.

THEN he cried and was told he was forgiven.

I think they really were working on a grander story than just "he
cried and was forgiven".

I am not getting the impression from the newsgroups that it worked.

Victor Velazquez wrote:

> "peachy ashie passion" <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:OgGcj.8328$1q4.1101@trnddc06...
>
>>Victor Velazquez wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"peachy ashie passion" <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:ecEcj.19801$6V3.8303@trnddc08...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Victor Velazquez wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"peachy ashie passion" <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>news:TADcj.3969$nh7.2825@trnddc01...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Is Owen unredeemable?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Frankly, I don't care if he's redeemed or not; he'll always be a slimy
>>>>>little bastard to me.
>>>>
>>>>Well, that's kind of what I meant... so in your eyes, he is so bad,
>>>>nothing will ever make him likeable?
>>>
>>>
>>>I suppose he could become likeable by cutting out the angsty tough guy
>>>act and being less of a dick. I just don't see it happening.
>>
>> Serious?
>>
>> Did you like him better before he was angsty?
>>
>> Because I sure didn't.
>
>
> Good point. Maybe he is unredeemable?
>
>

Well, I liked him better after he got angsty. Thought some pain
humanized him.

In article <nyPcj.19986$6V3.17614@trnddc08>,
peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Baerana wrote:
>
>> peachy ashie passion wrote:
>>
>>> Is Owen unredeemable?
>
>
> SPOILERS FOR ENTIRE SEASON ONE
>
>*
>*
>*
>*
>*
>*
>*
>
>>
>>
>> Well, he cried and was told he was forgiven. That's usually TV
>> shorthand for "he's been redeemed. you must like him now."
>>
>
>
> Well, yes.
>
> But the problem with the TV shorthand there is that the TV characters
>only are forgiving him for shooting Jack.
>
> Most of the viewers who hate him, hated him before he shot Jack, back
>when the characters didn't have something to forgive him for.
>
> I really believed he was supposed to have started as an ***, and his
>redemption story was supposed to have started with his falling in love
>and that loss.
>
> He felt great emotional pain, got suicidal, went a little crazy and
>sacrificed the world to save his teammates.
>
> THEN he cried and was told he was forgiven.
>
> I think they really were working on a grander story than just "he
>cried and was forgiven".
>
> I am not getting the impression from the newsgroups that it worked.
>
>

Remember, Jack cannot die.
--
Member - Liberal International
This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!
Merry CHRISTmas 2007 and Happy New Year 2008! CHRIST is the reason for the season!

Until the writers say so

--
Socrates taught his students that the pursuit of truth can only begin once
they start to question and analyze every belief that they ever held dear. If
a certain belief passes the tests of evidence, deduction, and logic, it
should be kept. If it doesn't, the belief should not only be discarded, but
the thinker must also then question why he was led to believe the erroneous


"The Doctor" <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
news:fl0k64$2o4$2@gallifrey.nk.ca...
> In article <nyPcj.19986$6V3.17614@trnddc08>,
> peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Remember, Jack cannot die.
> --
> Member - Liberal International
> This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
> God, Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!
> Merry CHRISTmas 2007 and Happy New Year 2008! CHRIST is the reason for the
season!

Only if they've misplaced the receipt...

> Is Owen unredeemable?

In article <_-CdnUiRNKTCmunanZ2dnUVZ8qaqnZ2d@bt.com>,
steve_c <steve_c@NOSPAMbtinternet.com> wrote:
>
>Only if they've misplaced the receipt...
>
>> Is Owen unredeemable?
>
>

LOL!
--
Member - Liberal International
This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!
Merry CHRISTmas 2007 and Happy New Year 2008! CHRIST is the reason for the season!

Silly twerp

--
Socrates taught his students that the pursuit of truth can only begin once
they start to question and analyze every belief that they ever held dear. If
a certain belief passes the tests of evidence, deduction, and logic, it
should be kept. If it doesn't, the belief should not only be discarded, but
the thinker must also then question why he was led to believe the erroneous


"The Doctor" <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
news:fl11mq$ftu$15@gallifrey.nk.ca...
> In article <_-CdnUiRNKTCmunanZ2dnUVZ8qaqnZ2d@bt.com>,
> steve_c <steve_c@NOSPAMbtinternet.com> wrote:
> >
> >Only if they've misplaced the receipt...
> >
> >> Is Owen unredeemable?
> >
> >
>
> LOL!
> --
> Member - Liberal International
> This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
> God, Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!
> Merry CHRISTmas 2007 and Happy New Year 2008! CHRIST is the reason for the
season!

The Doctor wrote:
> In article <nyPcj.19986$6V3.17614@trnddc08>,
> peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Baerana wrote:
>>
>>
>>>peachy ashie passion wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Is Owen unredeemable?
>>
>>
>> SPOILERS FOR ENTIRE SEASON ONE
>>
>>*
>>*
>>*
>>*
>>*
>>*
>>*
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Well, he cried and was told he was forgiven. That's usually TV
>>>shorthand for "he's been redeemed. you must like him now."
>>>
>>
>>
>> Well, yes.
>>
>> But the problem with the TV shorthand there is that the TV characters
>>only are forgiving him for shooting Jack.
>>
>> Most of the viewers who hate him, hated him before he shot Jack, back
>>when the characters didn't have something to forgive him for.
>>
>> I really believed he was supposed to have started as an ***, and his
>>redemption story was supposed to have started with his falling in love
>>and that loss.
>>
>> He felt great emotional pain, got suicidal, went a little crazy and
>>sacrificed the world to save his teammates.
>>
>> THEN he cried and was told he was forgiven.
>>
>> I think they really were working on a grander story than just "he
>>cried and was forgiven".
>>
>> I am not getting the impression from the newsgroups that it worked.
>>
>>
>
>
> Remember, Jack cannot die.


And your point is?

"peachy ashie passion" <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:kOXcj.39336$y54.38591@trnddc07...
> The Doctor wrote:
>> In article <nyPcj.19986$6V3.17614@trnddc08>,
>> peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Baerana wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>peachy ashie passion wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Is Owen unredeemable?
>>>
>>>
>>> SPOILERS FOR ENTIRE SEASON ONE
>>>
>>>*
>>>*
>>>*
>>>*
>>>*
>>>*
>>>*
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Well, he cried and was told he was forgiven. That's usually TV
>>>>shorthand for "he's been redeemed. you must like him now."
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Well, yes.
>>>
>>> But the problem with the TV shorthand there is that the TV characters
>>> only are forgiving him for shooting Jack.
>>>
>>> Most of the viewers who hate him, hated him before he shot Jack, back
>>> when the characters didn't have something to forgive him for.
>>>
>>> I really believed he was supposed to have started as an ***, and his
>>> redemption story was supposed to have started with his falling in love
>>> and that loss.
>>>
>>> He felt great emotional pain, got suicidal, went a little crazy and
>>> sacrificed the world to save his teammates.
>>>
>>> THEN he cried and was told he was forgiven.
>>>
>>> I think they really were working on a grander story than just "he cried
>>> and was forgiven".
>>>
>>> I am not getting the impression from the newsgroups that it worked.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Remember, Jack cannot die.
>
>
> And your point is?

Don't expect him to actually HAVE a point. You get used to it. He will be
telling you Davros still exists in another thread anytime soon even though
the thread will actually be about "tea" or "jam" or something.

Baz

In article <kOXcj.39336$y54.38591@trnddc07>,
peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
>The Doctor wrote:
>> In article <nyPcj.19986$6V3.17614@trnddc08>,
>> peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Baerana wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>peachy ashie passion wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Is Owen unredeemable?
>>>
>>>
>>> SPOILERS FOR ENTIRE SEASON ONE
>>>
>>>*
>>>*
>>>*
>>>*
>>>*
>>>*
>>>*
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Well, he cried and was told he was forgiven. That's usually TV
>>>>shorthand for "he's been redeemed. you must like him now."
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Well, yes.
>>>
>>> But the problem with the TV shorthand there is that the TV characters
>>>only are forgiving him for shooting Jack.
>>>
>>> Most of the viewers who hate him, hated him before he shot Jack, back
>>>when the characters didn't have something to forgive him for.
>>>
>>> I really believed he was supposed to have started as an ***, and his
>>>redemption story was supposed to have started with his falling in love
>>>and that loss.
>>>
>>> He felt great emotional pain, got suicidal, went a little crazy and
>>>sacrificed the world to save his teammates.
>>>
>>> THEN he cried and was told he was forgiven.
>>>
>>> I think they really were working on a grander story than just "he
>>>cried and was forgiven".
>>>
>>> I am not getting the impression from the newsgroups that it worked.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Remember, Jack cannot die.
>
>
> And your point is?

You need to know Jack from NS1 of DW.
--
Member - Liberal International
This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!
Merry CHRISTmas 2007 and Happy New Year 2008! CHRIST is the reason for the season!

Jack will do whatever the writer writes silly

--
Socrates taught his students that the pursuit of truth can only begin once
they start to question and analyze every belief that they ever held dear. If
a certain belief passes the tests of evidence, deduction, and logic, it
should be kept. If it doesn't, the belief should not only be discarded, but
the thinker must also then question why he was led to believe the erroneous


"The Doctor" <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
news:fl1lgd$4f3$8@gallifrey.nk.ca...
> In article <kOXcj.39336$y54.38591@trnddc07>,
>
> You need to know Jack from NS1 of DW.
> --
> Member - Liberal International
> This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
> God, Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!
> Merry CHRISTmas 2007 and Happy New Year 2008! CHRIST is the reason for the
season!

The Doctor wrote:

> In article <kOXcj.39336$y54.38591@trnddc07>,
> peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>The Doctor wrote:
>>
>>>In article <nyPcj.19986$6V3.17614@trnddc08>,
>>>peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Baerana wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>peachy ashie passion wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Is Owen unredeemable?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> SPOILERS FOR ENTIRE SEASON ONE
>>>>
>>>>*
>>>>*
>>>>*
>>>>*
>>>>*
>>>>*
>>>>*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Well, he cried and was told he was forgiven. That's usually TV
>>>>>shorthand for "he's been redeemed. you must like him now."
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well, yes.
>>>>
>>>>But the problem with the TV shorthand there is that the TV characters
>>>>only are forgiving him for shooting Jack.
>>>>
>>>> Most of the viewers who hate him, hated him before he shot Jack, back
>>>>when the characters didn't have something to forgive him for.
>>>>
>>>> I really believed he was supposed to have started as an ***, and his
>>>>redemption story was supposed to have started with his falling in love
>>>>and that loss.
>>>>
>>>> He felt great emotional pain, got suicidal, went a little crazy and
>>>>sacrificed the world to save his teammates.
>>>>
>>>> THEN he cried and was told he was forgiven.
>>>>
>>>>I think they really were working on a grander story than just "he
>>>>cried and was forgiven".
>>>>
>>>> I am not getting the impression from the newsgroups that it worked.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Remember, Jack cannot die.
>>
>>
>> And your point is?
>
>
> You need to know Jack from NS1 of DW.

Why?

What difference would it make. And what does NS1 mean anyway?

So

--
Socrates taught his students that the pursuit of truth can only begin once
they start to question and analyze every belief that they ever held dear. If
a certain belief passes the tests of evidence, deduction, and logic, it
should be kept. If it doesn't, the belief should not only be discarded, but
the thinker must also then question why he was led to believe the erroneous


"The Doctor" <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
news:fl303v$8mf$7@gallifrey.nk.ca...
> In article <SW_cj.5238$nh7.2637@trnddc01>,
> peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >The Doctor wrote:
> >
> >> In article <kOXcj.39336$y54.38591@trnddc07>,
> >> peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>The Doctor wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>In article <nyPcj.19986$6V3.17614@trnddc08>,
> >>>>peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Baerana wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>peachy ashie passion wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Is Owen unredeemable?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> SPOILERS FOR ENTIRE SEASON ONE
> >>>>>
> >>>>>*
> >>>>>*
> >>>>>*
> >>>>>*
> >>>>>*
> >>>>>*
> >>>>>*
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Well, he cried and was told he was forgiven. That's usually TV
> >>>>>>shorthand for "he's been redeemed. you must like him now."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Well, yes.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>But the problem with the TV shorthand there is that the TV characters
> >>>>>only are forgiving him for shooting Jack.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Most of the viewers who hate him, hated him before he shot Jack,
back
> >>>>>when the characters didn't have something to forgive him for.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I really believed he was supposed to have started as an ***, and his
> >>>>>redemption story was supposed to have started with his falling in
love
> >>>>>and that loss.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> He felt great emotional pain, got suicidal, went a little crazy and
> >>>>>sacrificed the world to save his teammates.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> THEN he cried and was told he was forgiven.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>I think they really were working on a grander story than just "he
> >>>>>cried and was forgiven".
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I am not getting the impression from the newsgroups that it worked.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Remember, Jack cannot die.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> And your point is?
> >>
> >>
> >> You need to know Jack from NS1 of DW.
> >
> > Why?
> >
> > What difference would it make. And what does NS1 mean anyway?
>
> NS1 means new Season 1 and in this case Doctor Who New Season/Series 1.
>
> The last 5 episodes had Jack and not his relative morality.
> --
> Member - Liberal International
> This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
> God, Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!
> Merry CHRISTmas 2007 and Happy New Year 2008! CHRIST is the reason for the
season!

In article <SW_cj.5238$nh7.2637@trnddc01>,
peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
>The Doctor wrote:
>
>> In article <kOXcj.39336$y54.38591@trnddc07>,
>> peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>The Doctor wrote:
>>>
>>>>In article <nyPcj.19986$6V3.17614@trnddc08>,
>>>>peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Baerana wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>peachy ashie passion wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Is Owen unredeemable?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> SPOILERS FOR ENTIRE SEASON ONE
>>>>>
>>>>>*
>>>>>*
>>>>>*
>>>>>*
>>>>>*
>>>>>*
>>>>>*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Well, he cried and was told he was forgiven. That's usually TV
>>>>>>shorthand for "he's been redeemed. you must like him now."
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, yes.
>>>>>
>>>>>But the problem with the TV shorthand there is that the TV characters
>>>>>only are forgiving him for shooting Jack.
>>>>>
>>>>> Most of the viewers who hate him, hated him before he shot Jack, back
>>>>>when the characters didn't have something to forgive him for.
>>>>>
>>>>> I really believed he was supposed to have started as an ***, and his
>>>>>redemption story was supposed to have started with his falling in love
>>>>>and that loss.
>>>>>
>>>>> He felt great emotional pain, got suicidal, went a little crazy and
>>>>>sacrificed the world to save his teammates.
>>>>>
>>>>> THEN he cried and was told he was forgiven.
>>>>>
>>>>>I think they really were working on a grander story than just "he
>>>>>cried and was forgiven".
>>>>>
>>>>> I am not getting the impression from the newsgroups that it worked.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Remember, Jack cannot die.
>>>
>>>
>>> And your point is?
>>
>>
>> You need to know Jack from NS1 of DW.
>
> Why?
>
> What difference would it make. And what does NS1 mean anyway?

NS1 means new Season 1 and in this case Doctor Who New Season/Series 1.

The last 5 episodes had Jack and not his relative morality.
--
Member - Liberal International
This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!
Merry CHRISTmas 2007 and Happy New Year 2008! CHRIST is the reason for the season!

"peachy ashie passion" <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:SW_cj.5238$nh7.2637@trnddc01...
> The Doctor wrote:
>
>> In article <kOXcj.39336$y54.38591@trnddc07>,
>> peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>The Doctor wrote:
>>>>Remember, Jack cannot die.
>>>
>>>
>>> And your point is?
>>
>>
>> You need to know Jack from NS1 of DW.
>
> Why?
>
> What difference would it make. And what does NS1 mean anyway?

You're arguing with an insane person.

Victor Velazquez wrote:

> "peachy ashie passion" <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:SW_cj.5238$nh7.2637@trnddc01...
>
>>The Doctor wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In article <kOXcj.39336$y54.38591@trnddc07>,
>>>peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>The Doctor wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Remember, Jack cannot die.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And your point is?
>>>
>>>
>>>You need to know Jack from NS1 of DW.
>>
>> Why?
>>
>> What difference would it make. And what does NS1 mean anyway?
>
>
> You're arguing with an insane person.
>
>

*giggles* Nope, I'm asking questions.

I can't help bringing my work home with me.

The Doctor wrote:

> In article <SW_cj.5238$nh7.2637@trnddc01>,
> peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>The Doctor wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In article <kOXcj.39336$y54.38591@trnddc07>,
>>>peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>The Doctor wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>In article <nyPcj.19986$6V3.17614@trnddc08>,
>>>>>peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Baerana wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>peachy ashie passion wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Is Owen unredeemable?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>SPOILERS FOR ENTIRE SEASON ONE
>>>>>>
>>>>>>*
>>>>>>*
>>>>>>*
>>>>>>*
>>>>>>*
>>>>>>*
>>>>>>*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Well, he cried and was told he was forgiven. That's usually TV
>>>>>>>shorthand for "he's been redeemed. you must like him now."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, yes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>But the problem with the TV shorthand there is that the TV characters
>>>>>>only are forgiving him for shooting Jack.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Most of the viewers who hate him, hated him before he shot Jack, back
>>>>>>when the characters didn't have something to forgive him for.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I really believed he was supposed to have started as an ***, and his
>>>>>>redemption story was supposed to have started with his falling in love
>>>>>>and that loss.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>He felt great emotional pain, got suicidal, went a little crazy and
>>>>>>sacrificed the world to save his teammates.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>THEN he cried and was told he was forgiven.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I think they really were working on a grander story than just "he
>>>>>>cried and was forgiven".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am not getting the impression from the newsgroups that it worked.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Remember, Jack cannot die.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And your point is?
>>>
>>>
>>>You need to know Jack from NS1 of DW.
>>
>> Why?
>>
>> What difference would it make. And what does NS1 mean anyway?
>
>
> NS1 means new Season 1 and in this case Doctor Who New Season/Series 1.
>
> The last 5 episodes had Jack and not his relative morality.

not his relative morality?

If you are trying to get me to watch something, you have to actually
say why. In words.

If you don't want me to watch it, but you want to refer to it, then
you'll have to be even more specific about what point you are trying to
make.

So far you've managed to convey that you have a point you'd like to
make. You've yet to actually make it.

We all know Jack can't die. How does that relate in any way to
Owen's redemption story? Or does it not, and you've gone in a different
direction?

I was hanging out with the cool kids in rec.arts.drwho when
peachy ashie passion got out a spraycan and scrawled the following:
> The Doctor wrote:
> > peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>The Doctor wrote:
> >>>peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>The Doctor wrote:
[...]
> >>>>>Remember, Jack cannot die.
> >>>>
> >>>> And your point is?
> >>>
> >>>You need to know Jack from NS1 of DW.
> >>
> >> Why?
> >>
> >> What difference would it make. And what does NS1 mean anyway?
> >
> > NS1 means new Season 1 and in this case Doctor Who New Season/Series 1.
> >
> > The last 5 episodes had Jack and not his relative morality.
>
> not his relative morality?
>
> If you are trying to get me to watch something, you have to actually
> say why. In words.
>
> If you don't want me to watch it, but you want to refer to it, then
> you'll have to be even more specific about what point you are trying to
> make.
>
> So far you've managed to convey that you have a point you'd like to
> make. You've yet to actually make it.

I *think* he's referring to the way that Jack's introductory episodes,
"The Empty Child" and "The Doctor Dances", show how the character is
initially a flirtatious conman but develops into someone who acts
responsibly and Does The Right Thing.

But as it's Yads, he might be thinking about something completely
different, like the line about Jack's three-in-a-bed romp with his
would-be executioners, or the religious symbolism of his enormous coat.

The "Jack cannot die" bit didn't become evident until Torchwood, and was
only discussed in detail in DW Series 3.

--
Remove caps to communicate more easily.

Happiness will prevail

In article <slrnfnadd2.qv8.gkennington@abrasive.chive>,
The Face of Po <gkennington@claIrVOYaNT.coLD.DuCk> wrote:

> I was hanging out with the cool kids in rec.arts.drwho when
> peachy ashie passion got out a spraycan and scrawled the following:
> > The Doctor wrote:
> > > peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >>The Doctor wrote:
> > >>>peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>>The Doctor wrote:
> [...]
> > >>>>>Remember, Jack cannot die.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> And your point is?
> > >>>
> > >>>You need to know Jack from NS1 of DW.
> > >>
> > >> Why?
> > >>
> > >> What difference would it make. And what does NS1 mean anyway?
> > >
> > > NS1 means new Season 1 and in this case Doctor Who New Season/Series 1.
> > >
> > > The last 5 episodes had Jack and not his relative morality.
> >
> > not his relative morality?
> >
> > If you are trying to get me to watch something, you have to actually
> > say why. In words.
> >
> > If you don't want me to watch it, but you want to refer to it, then
> > you'll have to be even more specific about what point you are trying to
> > make.
> >
> > So far you've managed to convey that you have a point you'd like to
> > make. You've yet to actually make it.
>
> I *think* he's referring to the way that Jack's introductory episodes,
> "The Empty Child" and "The Doctor Dances", show how the character is
> initially a flirtatious conman but develops into someone who acts
> responsibly and Does The Right Thing.
>
> But as it's Yads, he might be thinking about something completely
> different, like the line about Jack's three-in-a-bed romp with his
> would-be executioners, or the religious symbolism of his enormous coat.
>
> The "Jack cannot die" bit didn't become evident until Torchwood, and was
> only discussed in detail in DW Series 3.

What would The Face of Po know about "Jack cannot die" anyway?

;)

--
Jitterbug phones:
Fourth one is one the way. We'll see what happens. :\

The Face of Po <gkennington@claIrVOYaNT.coLD.DuCk> writes:
>The "Jack cannot die" bit didn't become evident until Torchwood, and was
>only discussed in detail in DW Series 3.

Sure it didn't become evident, because it wasn't true yet. It's fairly
clear, and possibly explicitly stated (can't remember for sure) that Rose
did it to him when she put him back together in "Parting of the ways". *
--
* PV something like badgers--something like lizards--and something
like corkscrews.

In article <13nan54qem08438@news.supernews.com>,
pv+usenet@pobox.com (PV) wrote:

> The Face of Po <gkennington@claIrVOYaNT.coLD.DuCk> writes:
> >The "Jack cannot die" bit didn't become evident until Torchwood, and was
> >only discussed in detail in DW Series 3.
>
> Sure it didn't become evident, because it wasn't true yet. It's fairly
> clear, and possibly explicitly stated (can't remember for sure) that Rose
> did it to him when she put him back together in "Parting of the ways". *

You think so? I'm really really confused on Jack's timeline.

--
Jitterbug phones:
Fourth one is one the way. We'll see what happens. :\

Anim8rFSK <ANIM8Rfsk@cox.net> writes:
>> Sure it didn't become evident, because it wasn't true yet. It's fairly
>> clear, and possibly explicitly stated (can't remember for sure) that Rose
>> did it to him when she put him back together in "Parting of the ways". *
>
>You think so? I'm really really confused on Jack's timeline.

Positive. Before "Parting of the ways", there was no sense that Jack
thought he was immortal, or was immortal. I might be mistaken, but I'm
pretty sure Jack confirmed that Rose's resurrection was the moment where he
became unable to die.

There's no question that Jack's timeline is confusing though, owing to him
possessing a cheapo time machine (the bracelet) of his own. *
--
* PV something like badgers--something like lizards--and something
like corkscrews.

The Face of Po wrote:

>
> But as it's Yads, he might be thinking about something completely
> different, like the line about Jack's three-in-a-bed romp with his
> would-be executioners, or the religious symbolism of his enormous coat.
..
..
There's religious symbolism in his enormous coat? I don't recall
Jesus, Buddah, Mohammed, the Dali Lama, or any other mainstream
religious icons having enormous coats...

I always thought it looked like a WWII era officer's coat. Which
makes sense, since we first find him in the WWII era...

The Face of Po wrote:

> I was hanging out with the cool kids in rec.arts.drwho when
> peachy ashie passion got out a spraycan and scrawled the following:
>
>> The Doctor wrote:
>>
>>>peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>The Doctor wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>The Doctor wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>>>>>>>Remember, Jack cannot die.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And your point is?
>>>>>
>>>>>You need to know Jack from NS1 of DW.
>>>>
>>>> Why?
>>>>
>>>> What difference would it make. And what does NS1 mean anyway?
>>>
>>>NS1 means new Season 1 and in this case Doctor Who New Season/Series 1.
>>>
>>>The last 5 episodes had Jack and not his relative morality.
>>
>> not his relative morality?
>>
>> If you are trying to get me to watch something, you have to actually
>> say why. In words.
>>
>> If you don't want me to watch it, but you want to refer to it, then
>> you'll have to be even more specific about what point you are trying to
>> make.
>>
>> So far you've managed to convey that you have a point you'd like to
>> make. You've yet to actually make it.
>
>
> I *think* he's referring to the way that Jack's introductory episodes,
> "The Empty Child" and "The Doctor Dances", show how the character is
> initially a flirtatious conman but develops into someone who acts
> responsibly and Does The Right Thing.

I loved him then. A lot.

Loved both of those episodes, but The Doctor Dances was the best.


But I still haven't any idea how that relates to Owen.

>
> But as it's Yads, he might be thinking about something completely
> different, like the line about Jack's three-in-a-bed romp with his
> would-be executioners, or the religious symbolism of his enormous coat.

Oh, LOVED the line about three in a bed romps, too. And that Jack
was clearly bisexual from his very first scene. It makes the happy.

>
> The "Jack cannot die" bit didn't become evident until Torchwood, and was
> only discussed in detail in DW Series 3.
>

In article <13nasdgc8p3lv44@news.supernews.com>,
pv+usenet@pobox.com (PV) wrote:

> Anim8rFSK <ANIM8Rfsk@cox.net> writes:
> >> Sure it didn't become evident, because it wasn't true yet. It's fairly
> >> clear, and possibly explicitly stated (can't remember for sure) that Rose
> >> did it to him when she put him back together in "Parting of the ways". *
> >
> >You think so? I'm really really confused on Jack's timeline.
>
> Positive. Before "Parting of the ways", there was no sense that Jack
> thought he was immortal, or was immortal. I might be mistaken, but I'm
> pretty sure Jack confirmed that Rose's resurrection was the moment where he
> became unable to die.
>
> There's no question that Jack's timeline is confusing though, owing to him
> possessing a cheapo time machine (the bracelet) of his own. *

Yeah. You see, from the start, I thought the Jack of WW1 (maybe) and
the Jack of the time patrol of the future had perhaps lived a linear
life to get to the future. Now I have NO idea how long he's lived in
actually internal Jack time. Could be just a few years.

--
Jitterbug phones:
Fourth one is one the way. We'll see what happens. :\

In article <47757262$0$5009$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
"Ryan P." <rpaque@delete.this.part.wi.rr.com> wrote:

> The Face of Po wrote:
>
> >
> > But as it's Yads, he might be thinking about something completely
> > different, like the line about Jack's three-in-a-bed romp with his
> > would-be executioners, or the religious symbolism of his enormous coat.
> .
> .
> There's religious symbolism in his enormous coat? I don't recall
> Jesus, Buddah, Mohammed, the Dali Lama, or any other mainstream
> religious icons having enormous coats...

Joseph had his enormous technicolor trench coat

--
Jitterbug phones:
Fourth one is one the way. We'll see what happens. :\

Anim8rFSK wrote:

> In article <47757262$0$5009$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
> "Ryan P." <rpaque@delete.this.part.wi.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
>>The Face of Po wrote:
>>
>>
>>>But as it's Yads, he might be thinking about something completely
>>>different, like the line about Jack's three-in-a-bed romp with his
>>>would-be executioners, or the religious symbolism of his enormous coat.
>>
>>.
>>.
>> There's religious symbolism in his enormous coat? I don't recall
>>Jesus, Buddah, Mohammed, the Dali Lama, or any other mainstream
>>religious icons having enormous coats...
>
>
> Joseph had his enormous technicolor trench coat
>

Such a dazzling coat of many colours
How he loved his coat of many colours

Anim8rFSK <ANIM8Rfsk@cox.net> writes:
>Yeah. You see, from the start, I thought the Jack of WW1 (maybe) and
>the Jack of the time patrol of the future had perhaps lived a linear
>life to get to the future. Now I have NO idea how long he's lived in
>actually internal Jack time. Could be just a few years.

As we discover late last season, Jack DID ultimately live a life spanning
several billion years. And Jack of Torchwood has at least lived the first
part of that long span, starting with somehow getting to WWI, say, by using
his bracelet after being put back together by Rose, and getting stuck there
when it broke until the Doctor later repaired it. He's been 'unable to die'
during that entire time. *
--
* PV something like badgers--something like lizards--and something
like corkscrews.

In article <JKCdnf87rZRNjOjanZ2dnUVZ_oqhnZ2d@comcast.com>,
Victor Velazquez <k-canute@hotmail.com> wrote:
>"peachy ashie passion" <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:SW_cj.5238$nh7.2637@trnddc01...
>> The Doctor wrote:
>>
>>> In article <kOXcj.39336$y54.38591@trnddc07>,
>>> peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>The Doctor wrote:
>>>>>Remember, Jack cannot die.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And your point is?
>>>
>>>
>>> You need to know Jack from NS1 of DW.
>>
>> Why?
>>
>> What difference would it make. And what does NS1 mean anyway?
>
>You're arguing with an insane person.
>
>

Sorry, I am not Top Poster or Mr.SmartyPAnts.
--
Member - Liberal International
This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!
Merry CHRISTmas 2007 and Happy New Year 2008! CHRIST is the reason for the season!

In article <BB8dj.2689$NL5.2399@trnddc05>,
peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Victor Velazquez wrote:
>
>> "peachy ashie passion" <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:SW_cj.5238$nh7.2637@trnddc01...
>>
>>>The Doctor wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>In article <kOXcj.39336$y54.38591@trnddc07>,
>>>>peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>The Doctor wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Remember, Jack cannot die.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> And your point is?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>You need to know Jack from NS1 of DW.
>>>
>>> Why?
>>>
>>> What difference would it make. And what does NS1 mean anyway?
>>
>>
>> You're arguing with an insane person.
>>
>>
>
> *giggles* Nope, I'm asking questions.
>
> I can't help bringing my work home with me.

What an intelligent lady.
--
Member - Liberal International
This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!
Merry CHRISTmas 2007 and Happy New Year 2008! CHRIST is the reason for the season!

In article <9L8dj.2851$NL5.1416@trnddc05>,
peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
>The Doctor wrote:
>
>> In article <SW_cj.5238$nh7.2637@trnddc01>,
>> peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>The Doctor wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>In article <kOXcj.39336$y54.38591@trnddc07>,
>>>>peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>The Doctor wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>In article <nyPcj.19986$6V3.17614@trnddc08>,
>>>>>>peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Baerana wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>peachy ashie passion wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Is Owen unredeemable?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>SPOILERS FOR ENTIRE SEASON ONE
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>*
>>>>>>>*
>>>>>>>*
>>>>>>>*
>>>>>>>*
>>>>>>>*
>>>>>>>*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Well, he cried and was told he was forgiven. That's usually TV
>>>>>>>>shorthand for "he's been redeemed. you must like him now."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well, yes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>But the problem with the TV shorthand there is that the TV characters
>>>>>>>only are forgiving him for shooting Jack.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Most of the viewers who hate him, hated him before he shot Jack, back
>>>>>>>when the characters didn't have something to forgive him for.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I really believed he was supposed to have started as an ***, and his
>>>>>>>redemption story was supposed to have started with his falling in love
>>>>>>>and that loss.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>He felt great emotional pain, got suicidal, went a little crazy and
>>>>>>>sacrificed the world to save his teammates.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>THEN he cried and was told he was forgiven.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I think they really were working on a grander story than just "he
>>>>>>>cried and was forgiven".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am not getting the impression from the newsgroups that it worked.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Remember, Jack cannot die.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> And your point is?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>You need to know Jack from NS1 of DW.
>>>
>>> Why?
>>>
>>> What difference would it make. And what does NS1 mean anyway?
>>
>>
>> NS1 means new Season 1 and in this case Doctor Who New Season/Series 1.
>>
>> The last 5 episodes had Jack and not his relative morality.
>
> not his relative morality?
>
> If you are trying to get me to watch something, you have to actually
>say why. In words.
>
> If you don't want me to watch it, but you want to refer to it, then
>you'll have to be even more specific about what point you are trying to
>make.
>
> So far you've managed to convey that you have a point you'd like to
>make. You've yet to actually make it.
>
> We all know Jack can't die. How does that relate in any way to
>Owen's redemption story? Or does it not, and you've gone in a different
>direction?
>

Going back to the Empty Child/ The Doctor Dances,
Captain Jack is intercepted by the Doctor and right up to
Parting of the Ways, he is put to rights.

In The Empty Child, Captain JAck was just a b*stard.
--
Member - Liberal International
This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!
Merry CHRISTmas 2007 and Happy New Year 2008! CHRIST is the reason for the season!

In article <slrnfnadd2.qv8.gkennington@abrasive.chive>,
The Face of Po <gkennington@claIrVOYaNT.coLD.DuCk> wrote:
>I was hanging out with the cool kids in rec.arts.drwho when
>peachy ashie passion got out a spraycan and scrawled the following:
>> The Doctor wrote:
>> > peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >>The Doctor wrote:
>> >>>peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>The Doctor wrote:
>[...]
>> >>>>>Remember, Jack cannot die.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> And your point is?
>> >>>
>> >>>You need to know Jack from NS1 of DW.
>> >>
>> >> Why?
>> >>
>> >> What difference would it make. And what does NS1 mean anyway?
>> >
>> > NS1 means new Season 1 and in this case Doctor Who New Season/Series 1.
>> >
>> > The last 5 episodes had Jack and not his relative morality.
>>
>> not his relative morality?
>>
>> If you are trying to get me to watch something, you have to actually
>> say why. In words.
>>
>> If you don't want me to watch it, but you want to refer to it, then
>> you'll have to be even more specific about what point you are trying to
>> make.
>>
>> So far you've managed to convey that you have a point you'd like to
>> make. You've yet to actually make it.
>
>I *think* he's referring to the way that Jack's introductory episodes,
>"The Empty Child" and "The Doctor Dances", show how the character is
>initially a flirtatious conman but develops into someone who acts
>responsibly and Does The Right Thing.
>
>But as it's Yads, he might be thinking about something completely
>different, like the line about Jack's three-in-a-bed romp with his
>would-be executioners, or the religious symbolism of his enormous coat.
>
>The "Jack cannot die" bit didn't become evident until Torchwood, and was
>only discussed in detail in DW Series 3.
>

Jack dies in the Gridlock episode. However, you are correct.
--
Member - Liberal International
This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!
Merry CHRISTmas 2007 and Happy New Year 2008! CHRIST is the reason for the season!

In article <47757262$0$5009$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Ryan P. <rpaque@delete.this.part.wi.rr.com> wrote:
>The Face of Po wrote:
>
>>
>> But as it's Yads, he might be thinking about something completely
>> different, like the line about Jack's three-in-a-bed romp with his
>> would-be executioners, or the religious symbolism of his enormous coat.
>.
>.
> There's religious symbolism in his enormous coat? I don't recall
>Jesus, Buddah, Mohammed, the Dali Lama, or any other mainstream
>religious icons having enormous coats...
>
> I always thought it looked like a WWII era officer's coat. Which
>makes sense, since we first find him in the WWII era...

The Doctor first meets Captain JAck in WWII!
--
Member - Liberal International
This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!
Merry CHRISTmas 2007 and Happy New Year 2008! CHRIST is the reason for the season!

The Doctor wrote:
> In article <9L8dj.2851$NL5.1416@trnddc05>,
> peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>The Doctor wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In article <SW_cj.5238$nh7.2637@trnddc01>,
>>>peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>The Doctor wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>In article <kOXcj.39336$y54.38591@trnddc07>,
>>>>>peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>The Doctor wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>In article <nyPcj.19986$6V3.17614@trnddc08>,
>>>>>>>peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Baerana wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>peachy ashie passion wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Is Owen unredeemable?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>SPOILERS FOR ENTIRE SEASON ONE
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>*
>>>>>>>>*
>>>>>>>>*
>>>>>>>>*
>>>>>>>>*
>>>>>>>>*
>>>>>>>>*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Well, he cried and was told he was forgiven. That's usually TV
>>>>>>>>>shorthand for "he's been redeemed. you must like him now."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Well, yes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>But the problem with the TV shorthand there is that the TV characters
>>>>>>>>only are forgiving him for shooting Jack.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Most of the viewers who hate him, hated him before he shot Jack, back
>>>>>>>>when the characters didn't have something to forgive him for.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I really believed he was supposed to have started as an ***, and his
>>>>>>>>redemption story was supposed to have started with his falling in love
>>>>>>>>and that loss.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>He felt great emotional pain, got suicidal, went a little crazy and
>>>>>>>>sacrificed the world to save his teammates.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>THEN he cried and was told he was forgiven.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I think they really were working on a grander story than just "he
>>>>>>>>cried and was forgiven".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I am not getting the impression from the newsgroups that it worked.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Remember, Jack cannot die.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And your point is?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>You need to know Jack from NS1 of DW.
>>>>
>>>> Why?
>>>>
>>>> What difference would it make. And what does NS1 mean anyway?
>>>
>>>
>>>NS1 means new Season 1 and in this case Doctor Who New Season/Series 1.
>>>
>>>The last 5 episodes had Jack and not his relative morality.
>>
>> not his relative morality?
>>
>> If you are trying to get me to watch something, you have to actually
>>say why. In words.
>>
>> If you don't want me to watch it, but you want to refer to it, then
>>you'll have to be even more specific about what point you are trying to
>>make.
>>
>> So far you've managed to convey that you have a point you'd like to
>>make. You've yet to actually make it.
>>
>> We all know Jack can't die. How does that relate in any way to
>>Owen's redemption story? Or does it not, and you've gone in a different
>>direction?
>>
>
>
> Going back to the Empty Child/ The Doctor Dances,
> Captain Jack is intercepted by the Doctor and right up to
> Parting of the Ways, he is put to rights.
>
> In The Empty Child, Captain JAck was just a b*stard.


I disagree. I don't think he was. He was slick, and a conman, but
he was careful to choose a con which he firmly believed hurt no one.

He wasn't a totally nice guy, but he was shown from the beginning to
be sensitive to other people's feelings and to caring for others.

How is that a bastard?

The Doctor wrote:

> In article <47757262$0$5009$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
> Ryan P. <rpaque@delete.this.part.wi.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>The Face of Po wrote:
>>
>>
>>>But as it's Yads, he might be thinking about something completely
>>>different, like the line about Jack's three-in-a-bed romp with his
>>>would-be executioners, or the religious symbolism of his enormous coat.
>>
>>.
>>.
>> There's religious symbolism in his enormous coat? I don't recall
>>Jesus, Buddah, Mohammed, the Dali Lama, or any other mainstream
>>religious icons having enormous coats...
>>
>> I always thought it looked like a WWII era officer's coat. Which
>>makes sense, since we first find him in the WWII era...
>
>
> The Doctor first meets Captain JAck in WWII!

Uh, yeah. That's what he just said.

The Doctor wrote:

> In article <f_gdj.93$Ug5.10@trnddc06>,
> peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>The Doctor wrote:
>>
>>>In article <9L8dj.2851$NL5.1416@trnddc05>,
>>>peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>The Doctor wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>In article <SW_cj.5238$nh7.2637@trnddc01>,
>>>>>peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>The Doctor wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>In article <kOXcj.39336$y54.38591@trnddc07>,
>>>>>>>peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>The Doctor wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>In article <nyPcj.19986$6V3.17614@trnddc08>,
>>>>>>>>>peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Baerana wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>peachy ashie passion wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Is Owen unredeemable?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>SPOILERS FOR ENTIRE SEASON ONE
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>*
>>>>>>>>>>*
>>>>>>>>>>*
>>>>>>>>>>*
>>>>>>>>>>*
>>>>>>>>>>*
>>>>>>>>>>*
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Well, he cried and was told he was forgiven. That's usually TV
>>>>>>>>>>>shorthand for "he's been redeemed. you must like him now."
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Well, yes.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>But the problem with the TV shorthand there is that the TV characters
>>>>>>>>>>only are forgiving him for shooting Jack.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Most of the viewers who hate him, hated him before he shot Jack, back
>>>>>>>>>>when the characters didn't have something to forgive him for.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I really believed he was supposed to have started as an ***, and his
>>>>>>>>>>redemption story was supposed to have started with his falling in love
>>>>>>>>>>and that loss.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>He felt great emotional pain, got suicidal, went a little crazy and
>>>>>>>>>>sacrificed the world to save his teammates.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>THEN he cried and was told he was forgiven.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I think they really were working on a grander story than just "he
>>>>>>>>>>cried and was forgiven".
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I am not getting the impression from the newsgroups that it worked.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Remember, Jack cannot die.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>And your point is?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You need to know Jack from NS1 of DW.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What difference would it make. And what does NS1 mean anyway?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>NS1 means new Season 1 and in this case Doctor Who New Season/Series 1.
>>>>>
>>>>>The last 5 episodes had Jack and not his relative morality.
>>>>
>>>> not his relative morality?
>>>>
>>>>If you are trying to get me to watch something, you have to actually
>>>>say why. In words.
>>>>
>>>> If you don't want me to watch it, but you want to refer to it, then
>>>>you'll have to be even more specific about what point you are trying to
>>>>make.
>>>>
>>>> So far you've managed to convey that you have a point you'd like to
>>>>make. You've yet to actually make it.
>>>>
>>>> We all know Jack can't die. How does that relate in any way to
>>>>Owen's redemption story? Or does it not, and you've gone in a different
>>>>direction?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Going back to the Empty Child/ The Doctor Dances,
>>>Captain Jack is intercepted by the Doctor and right up to
>>>Parting of the Ways, he is put to rights.
>>>
>>>In The Empty Child, Captain JAck was just a b*stard.
>>
>>
>> I disagree. I don't think he was. He was slick, and a conman, but
>>he was careful to choose a con which he firmly believed hurt no one.
>>
>> He wasn't a totally nice guy, but he was shown from the beginning to
>>be sensitive to other people's feelings and to caring for others.
>>
>> How is that a bastard?
>
>
> He wanted to make a quick deal thinking it would hurt no one.

In fact he went out of his way to make sure it hurt no one, and had
done so previously without incident. He screwed up this time.

In article <f_gdj.93$Ug5.10@trnddc06>,
peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
>The Doctor wrote:
>> In article <9L8dj.2851$NL5.1416@trnddc05>,
>> peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>The Doctor wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>In article <SW_cj.5238$nh7.2637@trnddc01>,
>>>>peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>The Doctor wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>In article <kOXcj.39336$y54.38591@trnddc07>,
>>>>>>peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The Doctor wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>In article <nyPcj.19986$6V3.17614@trnddc08>,
>>>>>>>>peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Baerana wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>peachy ashie passion wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Is Owen unredeemable?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>SPOILERS FOR ENTIRE SEASON ONE
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>*
>>>>>>>>>*
>>>>>>>>>*
>>>>>>>>>*
>>>>>>>>>*
>>>>>>>>>*
>>>>>>>>>*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Well, he cried and was told he was forgiven. That's usually TV
>>>>>>>>>>shorthand for "he's been redeemed. you must like him now."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Well, yes.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>But the problem with the TV shorthand there is that the TV characters
>>>>>>>>>only are forgiving him for shooting Jack.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Most of the viewers who hate him, hated him before he shot Jack, back
>>>>>>>>>when the characters didn't have something to forgive him for.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I really believed he was supposed to have started as an ***, and his
>>>>>>>>>redemption story was supposed to have started with his falling in love
>>>>>>>>>and that loss.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>He felt great emotional pain, got suicidal, went a little crazy and
>>>>>>>>>sacrificed the world to save his teammates.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>THEN he cried and was told he was forgiven.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I think they really were working on a grander story than just "he
>>>>>>>>>cried and was forgiven".
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I am not getting the impression from the newsgroups that it worked.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Remember, Jack cannot die.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And your point is?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>You need to know Jack from NS1 of DW.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why?
>>>>>
>>>>> What difference would it make. And what does NS1 mean anyway?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>NS1 means new Season 1 and in this case Doctor Who New Season/Series 1.
>>>>
>>>>The last 5 episodes had Jack and not his relative morality.
>>>
>>> not his relative morality?
>>>
>>> If you are trying to get me to watch something, you have to actually
>>>say why. In words.
>>>
>>> If you don't want me to watch it, but you want to refer to it, then
>>>you'll have to be even more specific about what point you are trying to
>>>make.
>>>
>>> So far you've managed to convey that you have a point you'd like to
>>>make. You've yet to actually make it.
>>>
>>> We all know Jack can't die. How does that relate in any way to
>>>Owen's redemption story? Or does it not, and you've gone in a different
>>>direction?
>>>
>>
>>
>> Going back to the Empty Child/ The Doctor Dances,
>> Captain Jack is intercepted by the Doctor and right up to
>> Parting of the Ways, he is put to rights.
>>
>> In The Empty Child, Captain JAck was just a b*stard.
>
>
> I disagree. I don't think he was. He was slick, and a conman, but
>he was careful to choose a con which he firmly believed hurt no one.
>
> He wasn't a totally nice guy, but he was shown from the beginning to
>be sensitive to other people's feelings and to caring for others.
>
> How is that a bastard?

He wanted to make a quick deal thinking it would hurt no one.
--
Member - Liberal International
This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!
Merry CHRISTmas 2007 and Happy New Year 2008! CHRIST is the reason for the season!

He will die whenever the writer says so

--
Socrates taught his students that the pursuit of truth can only begin once
they start to question and analyze every belief that they ever held dear. If
a certain belief passes the tests of evidence, deduction, and logic, it
should be kept. If it doesn't, the belief should not only be discarded, but
the thinker must also then question why he was led to believe the erroneous


"The Doctor" <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
news:fl44pk$efd$10@gallifrey.nk.ca...
> In article <slrnfnadd2.qv8.gkennington@abrasive.chive>,
> The Face of Po <gkennington@claIrVOYaNT.coLD.DuCk> wrote:
> >I was hanging out with the cool kids in rec.arts.drwho when
> >peachy ashie passion got out a spraycan and scrawled the following:
> >> The Doctor wrote:
> >> > peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>The Doctor wrote:
> >> >>>peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>>>The Doctor wrote:
> >[...]
> >> >>>>>Remember, Jack cannot die.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> And your point is?
> >> >>>
> >> >>>You need to know Jack from NS1 of DW.
> >> >>
> >> >> Why?
> >> >>
> >> >> What difference would it make. And what does NS1 mean anyway?
> >> >
> >> > NS1 means new Season 1 and in this case Doctor Who New Season/Series
1.
> >> >
> >> > The last 5 episodes had Jack and not his relative morality.
> >>
> >> not his relative morality?
> >>
> >> If you are trying to get me to watch something, you have to actually
> >> say why. In words.
> >>
> >> If you don't want me to watch it, but you want to refer to it,
then
> >> you'll have to be even more specific about what point you are trying
to
> >> make.
> >>
> >> So far you've managed to convey that you have a point you'd like
to
> >> make. You've yet to actually make it.
> >
> >I *think* he's referring to the way that Jack's introductory episodes,
> >"The Empty Child" and "The Doctor Dances", show how the character is
> >initially a flirtatious conman but develops into someone who acts
> >responsibly and Does The Right Thing.
> >
> >But as it's Yads, he might be thinking about something completely
> >different, like the line about Jack's three-in-a-bed romp with his
> >would-be executioners, or the religious symbolism of his enormous coat.
> >
> >The "Jack cannot die" bit didn't become evident until Torchwood, and was
> >only discussed in detail in DW Series 3.
> >
>
> Jack dies in the Gridlock episode. However, you are correct.
> --
> Member - Liberal International
> This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
> God, Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!
> Merry CHRISTmas 2007 and Happy New Year 2008! CHRIST is the reason for the
season!

Big deal

--
Socrates taught his students that the pursuit of truth can only begin once
they start to question and analyze every belief that they ever held dear. If
a certain belief passes the tests of evidence, deduction, and logic, it
should be kept. If it doesn't, the belief should not only be discarded, but
the thinker must also then question why he was led to believe the erroneous


"The Doctor" <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
news:fl44r3$efd$11@gallifrey.nk.ca...
> In article <47757262$0$5009$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
> Ryan P. <rpaque@delete.this.part.wi.rr.com> wrote:
> >The Face of Po wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> But as it's Yads, he might be thinking about something completely
> >> different, like the line about Jack's three-in-a-bed romp with his
> >> would-be executioners, or the religious symbolism of his enormous coat.
> >.
> >.
> > There's religious symbolism in his enormous coat? I don't recall
> >Jesus, Buddah, Mohammed, the Dali Lama, or any other mainstream
> >religious icons having enormous coats...
> >
> > I always thought it looked like a WWII era officer's coat. Which
> >makes sense, since we first find him in the WWII era...
>
> The Doctor first meets Captain JAck in WWII!
> --
> Member - Liberal International
> This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
> God, Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!
> Merry CHRISTmas 2007 and Happy New Year 2008! CHRIST is the reason for the
season!

So

--
Socrates taught his students that the pursuit of truth can only begin once
they start to question and analyze every belief that they ever held dear. If
a certain belief passes the tests of evidence, deduction, and logic, it
should be kept. If it doesn't, the belief should not only be discarded, but
the thinker must also then question why he was led to believe the erroneous


"The Doctor" <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
news:fl46up$efd$25@gallifrey.nk.ca...
> In article <f_gdj.93$Ug5.10@trnddc06>,
> peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >The Doctor wrote:
> >> In article <9L8dj.2851$NL5.1416@trnddc05>,
> >> peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>The Doctor wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>In article <SW_cj.5238$nh7.2637@trnddc01>,
> >>>>peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>The Doctor wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>In article <kOXcj.39336$y54.38591@trnddc07>,
> >>>>>>peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>The Doctor wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>In article <nyPcj.19986$6V3.17614@trnddc08>,
> >>>>>>>>peachy ashie passion <exquisitepeach@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Baerana wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>peachy ashie passion wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>Is Owen unredeemable?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>SPOILERS FOR ENTIRE SEASON ONE
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>*
> >>>>>>>>>*
> >>>>>>>>>*
> >>>>>>>>>*
> >>>>>>>>>*
> >>>>>>>>>*
> >>>>>>>>>*
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>Well, he cried and was told he was forgiven. That's usually TV
> >>>>>>>>>>shorthand for "he's been redeemed. you must like him now."
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Well, yes.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>But the problem with the TV shorthand there is that the TV
characters
> >>>>>>>>>only are forgiving him for shooting Jack.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Most of the viewers who hate him, hated him before he shot Jack,
back
> >>>>>>>>>when the characters didn't have something to forgive him for.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>I really believed he was supposed to have started as an ***, and
his
> >>>>>>>>>redemption story was supposed to have started with his falling in
love
> >>>>>>>>>and that loss.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>He felt great emotional pain, got suicidal, went a little crazy
and
> >>>>>>>>>sacrificed the world to save his teammates.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>THEN he cried and was told he was forgiven.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>I think they really were working on a grander story than just "he
> >>>>>>>>>cried and was forgiven".
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>I am not getting the impression from the newsgroups that it
worked.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Remember, Jack cannot die.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> And your point is?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>You need to know Jack from NS1 of DW.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Why?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What difference would it make. And what does NS1 mean anyway?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>NS1 means new Season 1 and in this case Doctor Who New Season/Series
1.
> >>>>
> >>>>The last 5 episodes had Jack and not his relative morality.
> >>>
> >>> not his relative morality?
> >>>
> >>> If you are trying to get me to watch something, you have to actually
> >>>say why. In words.
> >>>
> >>> If you don't want me to watch it, but you want to refer to it, then
> >>>you'll have to be even more specific about what point you are trying to
> >>>make.
> >>>
>