"Anim8rFSK" <ANIM8Rfsk@cox.net> wrote in message
news:ANIM8Rfsk-3B70B3.06505916122007@news.phx.highwinds-media.com...
> In article <13m9b21gdbif77e@corp.supernews.com>,
> "Dragonlady" <dragonlady@cableone.net> wrote:
>
>> "Anim8rFSK" <ANIM8Rfsk@cox.net> wrote in message
>> news:ANIM8Rfsk-ECE0CC.17051115122007@news.phx.highwinds-media.com...
>> > In article <13m8nru52doca3@corp.supernews.com>,
>> > "Dragonlady" <dragonlady@cableone.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Victor Velazquez" <k-canute@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> >> news:j8KdnefZI8ZSpPnanZ2dnUVZ_rOqnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>> >> > "Anim8rFSK" <ANIM8Rfsk@cox.net> wrote in message
>> >> > news:ANIM8Rfsk-7B8C27.13163615122007@news.phx.highwinds-media.com...
>> >> >
>> >> >> The addicts I've known in a program leave and go straight out and
>> >> >> get
>> >> >> high and get behind the wheel and kill and cripple people,
>> >> >> repeatedly,
>> >> >> and get put right back in the program instead of executed like they
>> >> >> should be. YMMV.
>> >> >
>> >> > I can't say as how I'd be upset if something horrible happened to
>> >> > the
>> >> > folks you're describing and since I don't exactly have a large
>> >> > sample
>> >> > of
>> >> > counter-examples, YMMV indeed!
>> >>
>> >> Thing is, the people who do have a large sample of counter-examples
>> >> can't
>> >> talk about it.
>> >
>> > Untrue. They release the statistics, and their success rate is exactly
>> > the same as if you didn't go through their program.
>>
>> Which proves it works for some people.
>
> Quite the opposite.

How do you figure that?

> It also works in ways that white
>> knuckling it doesn't. But you can't measure that, and you wouldn't know
>> about it, since you clearly know very little about AA, or you wouldn't be
>> trying to use statistics to prove your point.
>
> What are you, shilling for them? It's a scam.

*LOL* You don't scam people by helping them. I know people who used AA to
get sober. Some of them have probably been sober for longer than you've
been alive. I must admit to being curious as to what you have against them
and why?

In article <13mdu6ue6c9u41c@corp.supernews.com>,
"Dragonlady" <dragonlady@cableone.net> wrote:

> "Anim8rFSK" <ANIM8Rfsk@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:ANIM8Rfsk-3B70B3.06505916122007@news.phx.highwinds-media.com...
> > In article <13m9b21gdbif77e@corp.supernews.com>,
> > "Dragonlady" <dragonlady@cableone.net> wrote:
> >
> >> "Anim8rFSK" <ANIM8Rfsk@cox.net> wrote in message
> >> news:ANIM8Rfsk-ECE0CC.17051115122007@news.phx.highwinds-media.com...
> >> > In article <13m8nru52doca3@corp.supernews.com>,
> >> > "Dragonlady" <dragonlady@cableone.net> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> "Victor Velazquez" <k-canute@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >> >> news:j8KdnefZI8ZSpPnanZ2dnUVZ_rOqnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> >> >> > "Anim8rFSK" <ANIM8Rfsk@cox.net> wrote in message
> >> >> > news:ANIM8Rfsk-7B8C27.13163615122007@news.phx.highwinds-media.com...
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> The addicts I've known in a program leave and go straight out and
> >> >> >> get
> >> >> >> high and get behind the wheel and kill and cripple people,
> >> >> >> repeatedly,
> >> >> >> and get put right back in the program instead of executed like they
> >> >> >> should be. YMMV.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I can't say as how I'd be upset if something horrible happened to
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > folks you're describing and since I don't exactly have a large
> >> >> > sample
> >> >> > of
> >> >> > counter-examples, YMMV indeed!
> >> >>
> >> >> Thing is, the people who do have a large sample of counter-examples
> >> >> can't
> >> >> talk about it.
> >> >
> >> > Untrue. They release the statistics, and their success rate is exactly
> >> > the same as if you didn't go through their program.
> >>
> >> Which proves it works for some people.
> >
> > Quite the opposite.
>
> How do you figure that?
>
> > It also works in ways that white
> >> knuckling it doesn't. But you can't measure that, and you wouldn't know
> >> about it, since you clearly know very little about AA, or you wouldn't be
> >> trying to use statistics to prove your point.
> >
> > What are you, shilling for them? It's a scam.
>
> *LOL* You don't scam people by helping them.

And AA isn't helping anyone.

I know people who used AA to
> get sober. Some of them have probably been sober for longer than you've
> been alive. I must admit to being curious as to what you have against them
> and why?

They do no good. And they try to convert you to their religion, so they
do harm.

--
R.I.P. Bionic Woman:
The latest reason the WGA should revoke Laeta Kalogridis's union card,
or shut their doors in shame.

"Anim8rFSK" <ANIM8Rfsk@cox.net> wrote in message
news:ANIM8Rfsk-F475A6.17430717122007@news.phx.highwinds-media.com...
> In article <13mdu6ue6c9u41c@corp.supernews.com>,
> "Dragonlady" <dragonlady@cableone.net> wrote:
>
>> "Anim8rFSK" <ANIM8Rfsk@cox.net> wrote in message
>> news:ANIM8Rfsk-3B70B3.06505916122007@news.phx.highwinds-media.com...
>> > In article <13m9b21gdbif77e@corp.supernews.com>,
>> > "Dragonlady" <dragonlady@cableone.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Anim8rFSK" <ANIM8Rfsk@cox.net> wrote in message
>> >> news:ANIM8Rfsk-ECE0CC.17051115122007@news.phx.highwinds-media.com...
>> >> > In article <13m8nru52doca3@corp.supernews.com>,
>> >> > "Dragonlady" <dragonlady@cableone.net> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> "Victor Velazquez" <k-canute@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> >> >> news:j8KdnefZI8ZSpPnanZ2dnUVZ_rOqnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>> >> >> > "Anim8rFSK" <ANIM8Rfsk@cox.net> wrote in message
>> >> >> > news:ANIM8Rfsk-7B8C27.13163615122007@news.phx.highwinds-media.com...
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> The addicts I've known in a program leave and go straight out
>> >> >> >> and
>> >> >> >> get
>> >> >> >> high and get behind the wheel and kill and cripple people,
>> >> >> >> repeatedly,
>> >> >> >> and get put right back in the program instead of executed like
>> >> >> >> they
>> >> >> >> should be. YMMV.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > I can't say as how I'd be upset if something horrible happened to
>> >> >> > the
>> >> >> > folks you're describing and since I don't exactly have a large
>> >> >> > sample
>> >> >> > of
>> >> >> > counter-examples, YMMV indeed!
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Thing is, the people who do have a large sample of counter-examples
>> >> >> can't
>> >> >> talk about it.
>> >> >
>> >> > Untrue. They release the statistics, and their success rate is
>> >> > exactly
>> >> > the same as if you didn't go through their program.
>> >>
>> >> Which proves it works for some people.
>> >
>> > Quite the opposite.
>>
>> How do you figure that?
>>
>> > It also works in ways that white
>> >> knuckling it doesn't. But you can't measure that, and you wouldn't
>> >> know
>> >> about it, since you clearly know very little about AA, or you wouldn't
>> >> be
>> >> trying to use statistics to prove your point.
>> >
>> > What are you, shilling for them? It's a scam.
>>
>> *LOL* You don't scam people by helping them.
>
> And AA isn't helping anyone.

Having never been to an AA meeting, you cannot know that. In any case, you
are wrong.

> I know people who used AA to
>> get sober. Some of them have probably been sober for longer than you've
>> been alive. I must admit to being curious as to what you have against
>> them
>> and why?
>
> They do no good. And they try to convert you to their religion, so they
> do harm.

Well, actually, the ones who are trying to convert you to their religion
aren't working the program. They are only flirting with it, and they are
actually endangering the people they are supposed to be helping. The real
thing is not dependent on *any* religion. Yes, I know the steps mention a
higher power. Do you know what some of the "higher powers" I've heard of
have been?

A chair.

The sky.

The group. (There is actually an inherent danger in this, it's not a good
idea).

These are people who got sober using AA as their support system. They found
a group that did not try to convert them, they stuck with it, and it worked
for them. I'll grant you it's probably easier if you believe in a God of
some sort, but it's not supposed to be a requirement. Any group that does
make it a requirement is not a working AA group, and probably has a core
group with a shifting population that comes for a while and then drops out
and goes back to drinking, because the core group has seized control and
won't let go, so the only way to have any freedom at all is the get out.

If you know of a group that's trying to convert people to a specific
religion, I suggest you contact the head office and report them.