I don't think they ever found much of a place for him in the scripts; he's
distinctly second-tier in terms of how much camera time he gets. The
captain and data have the most lines. I suspect Geordi has more than Riker.
Riker seems to be on par with the doctor or Warf.

They never really fleshed out his character. We're told that he has a 'way
with the crew' and that everybody loves him but that's never really
established, it's only declared. He has a weird offputting smile sometimes,
and we see him get laid sometimes, but that's about it as far as his
character goes. Every once in a while they give him an obvious tactical
decision which should have come from Picard but since they're both on the
bridge and since he hadn't said anything that ep yet, they have him say it.

I think the most meaningful purpose he serves is to provide a target or
context for some of the Captains more interesting characteristics, like
loyalty, trust and honesty.

<a> wrote in message news:t6-dnWVGYpoJAj_anZ2dnUVZ_tuonZ2d@comcast.com...
> I don't think they ever found much of a place for him in the scripts; he's
> distinctly second-tier in terms of how much camera time he gets. The
> captain and data have the most lines. I suspect Geordi has more than
Riker.
> Riker seems to be on par with the doctor or Warf.
>
> They never really fleshed out his character. We're told that he has a
'way
> with the crew' and that everybody loves him but that's never really
> established, it's only declared. He has a weird offputting smile
sometimes,
> and we see him get laid sometimes, but that's about it as far as his
> character goes. Every once in a while they give him an obvious tactical
> decision which should have come from Picard but since they're both on the
> bridge and since he hadn't said anything that ep yet, they have him say
it.
>
> I think the most meaningful purpose he serves is to provide a target or
> context for some of the Captains more interesting characteristics, like
> loyalty, trust and honesty.
>
>

Yep
You nailed it
Sometimes he leers at women too
TOS didn't have this flaw about the second in command
Riker sat in that chair doing nothing

It always seemed to me, at least in the beginning, that Riker and Troi were
just rewrites of Matt Dekker and Ilia from TMP. Both sets had a long ago
romantic past when the guy was stationed on the girls planet. Both sets have
similar names (Ilia sounds a LOT like the Greek word for Troy, Ilium). The
guy gets to be the XO to a legendary captain while the woman gets some sort
of secondary posting on the ship. It sounds to me that GR desperately tried
fleshing Riker and Troi out but didn't quite succeed.
<a> wrote in message news:t6-dnWVGYpoJAj_anZ2dnUVZ_tuonZ2d@comcast.com...
>I don't think they ever found much of a place for him in the scripts; he's
>distinctly second-tier in terms of how much camera time he gets. The
>captain and data have the most lines. I suspect Geordi has more than
>Riker. Riker seems to be on par with the doctor or Warf.
>
> They never really fleshed out his character. We're told that he has a
> 'way with the crew' and that everybody loves him but that's never really
> established, it's only declared. He has a weird offputting smile
> sometimes, and we see him get laid sometimes, but that's about it as far
> as his character goes. Every once in a while they give him an obvious
> tactical decision which should have come from Picard but since they're
> both on the bridge and since he hadn't said anything that ep yet, they
> have him say it.
>
> I think the most meaningful purpose he serves is to provide a target or
> context for some of the Captains more interesting characteristics, like
> loyalty, trust and honesty.
>

Benjamin Pavsner wrote:
> It always seemed to me, at least in the beginning, that Riker and
> Troi were just rewrites of Matt Dekker and Ilia from TMP.

I'm certain I read somewhere that this was in fact the case.

On Fri, 1 Feb 2008 19:16:37 -0000, "\(not quite so\) Fat Sam"
<samandjanet@knox.orangehome.co.uk> wrote:

>Benjamin Pavsner wrote:
>> It always seemed to me, at least in the beginning, that Riker and
>> Troi were just rewrites of Matt Dekker and Ilia from TMP.
>
>I'm certain I read somewhere that this was in fact the case.
>


Well, if you didn't there . . . you did here.

(not quite so) Fat Sam wrote:
> Benjamin Pavsner wrote:
>> It always seemed to me, at least in the beginning, that Riker and
>> Troi were just rewrites of Matt Dekker and Ilia from TMP.
>
> I'm certain I read somewhere that this was in fact the case.

That /is/ indeed the case.
TNG evolved from TMP/Phase II. Phase II was to be a continuation of TOS
without Spock & McCoy if I remember correctly.

Kirk became Picard: older, interested in archeology (see also the TMP
novel).
Willard Decker became Will Riker
Ilia (Deltan) became Troi (Betazoid). With similar powers.
Doctor Chapel became Doctor Crusher

Speculation: Maybe the full Vulcan science officer (again see that novel)
became Data.


--
www.woutervalentijn.net

www.nksf.scifics.com/nksfseries.html

liam=mail

In article <eNGoj.32795$4w.29504@pd7urf2no>, "Leon Trollski"
<leon@garyrock.com> wrote:

> <a> wrote in message news:t6-dnWVGYpoJAj_anZ2dnUVZ_tuonZ2d@comcast.com...
> > I don't think they ever found much of a place for him in the scripts; he's
> > distinctly second-tier in terms of how much camera time he gets. The
> > captain and data have the most lines. I suspect Geordi has more than
> Riker.
> > Riker seems to be on par with the doctor or Warf.
> >
> > They never really fleshed out his character. We're told that he has a
> 'way
> > with the crew' and that everybody loves him but that's never really
> > established, it's only declared. He has a weird offputting smile
> sometimes,
> > and we see him get laid sometimes, but that's about it as far as his
> > character goes. Every once in a while they give him an obvious tactical
> > decision which should have come from Picard but since they're both on the
> > bridge and since he hadn't said anything that ep yet, they have him say
> it.
> >
> > I think the most meaningful purpose he serves is to provide a target or
> > context for some of the Captains more interesting characteristics, like
> > loyalty, trust and honesty.
>
> Yep
> You nailed it
> Sometimes he leers at women too
> TOS didn't have this flaw about the second in command
> Riker sat in that chair doing nothing

Riker is just a wishy-washy Mummy's boy (or in this case Daddy's boy).
Starfleet continues to offer him his own ship and Riker continually
turns it down to stay with Picard ("daddy") and have his hand held.

Plus, the fact that Starfleet keeps offering him a ship makes you
wonder if "management" ever gets a braincell, even in the future.

"Anybody" <anybody@anywhere-anytime.com> wrote in message
news:020220081140596626%anybody@anywhere-anytime.com...
> In article <eNGoj.32795$4w.29504@pd7urf2no>, "Leon Trollski"
> <leon@garyrock.com> wrote:
>
>> <a> wrote in message news:t6-dnWVGYpoJAj_anZ2dnUVZ_tuonZ2d@comcast.com...
>> > I don't think they ever found much of a place for him in the scripts;
>> > he's
>> > distinctly second-tier in terms of how much camera time he gets. The
>> > captain and data have the most lines. I suspect Geordi has more than
>> Riker.
>> > Riker seems to be on par with the doctor or Warf.
>> >
>> > They never really fleshed out his character. We're told that he has a
>> 'way
>> > with the crew' and that everybody loves him but that's never really
>> > established, it's only declared. He has a weird offputting smile
>> sometimes,
>> > and we see him get laid sometimes, but that's about it as far as his
>> > character goes. Every once in a while they give him an obvious
>> > tactical
>> > decision which should have come from Picard but since they're both on
>> > the
>> > bridge and since he hadn't said anything that ep yet, they have him say
>> it.
>> >
>> > I think the most meaningful purpose he serves is to provide a target or
>> > context for some of the Captains more interesting characteristics, like
>> > loyalty, trust and honesty.
>>
>> Yep
>> You nailed it
>> Sometimes he leers at women too
>> TOS didn't have this flaw about the second in command
>> Riker sat in that chair doing nothing
>
> Riker is just a wishy-washy Mummy's boy (or in this case Daddy's boy).
> Starfleet continues to offer him his own ship and Riker continually
> turns it down to stay with Picard ("daddy") and have his hand held.
>
> Plus, the fact that Starfleet keeps offering him a ship makes you
> wonder if "management" ever gets a braincell, even in the future.

This is really a matter of *failed* writing - Riker was supposed to get the
"action", while Picard was supposed to do the diplomacy and control.
Starfleet regulations, after TOS, were specifically rewritten to prevent the
captain from being put in positions of danger - meaning that #2 was supposed
to get all the Away missions, with all the activities and drama involved
therefore. But the writers simply failed in this aspect - they focused on
Stewart and Spiner, seeing them as "drama" and "uniqueness", and discounted
almost everyone else to strictly supporting roles.

Hell, there are quite a number of episodes where Sirtis doesn't even show up
in a single scene.

If Berman would have divided the cast into two distinct "ensembles" - Picard
/ Data / LaForge for the "Command" side, and Riker / Worf / Crusher / Troi
for the "Action" (interpreting the commands), then the ensembles workings of
TNG would have been more balanced. Instead, sometimes we see Picard making
a decision, with Data's assistance...and Picard / Data acting the decision
out. The balance of Command versus command Interpretation is (many times)
completely off by, say. the fourth season.

Worf got used many times to highlight the "uniqueness" of the character -
simply a "substitute Data" to make it look like they were developing
alternate characters.