Who invented the Dune Tarot? Speculations?

Tony wrote:
> Who invented the Dune Tarot? Speculations?

IIRC, the greatest minds on the scene didn't know for sure. What was
interesting is that it had the power to muddy oraclale vision....

WM
>
>

"Wild Monkshood" <Wild_Monkshood@windstream.net> wrote in message news:
>
>
> Tony wrote:
>> Who invented the Dune Tarot? Speculations?
>
> IIRC, the greatest minds on the scene didn't know for sure. What was
> interesting is that it had the power to muddy oraclale vision....
>
> WM
>>

T: I think it might have been the Ixians. Later on in the Chronicles they
developed a way to totally obscure prescient visions, i.e., the Noship and
Nochamber. In addition, Bronso of Ix was a vocal critic of both Paul and
Alia.

See, for example:

http://www.wattpad.com/3998-Dune-Messiah-book-2-by-Frank-Herbert

But the purpose of the Tarot was presumably telling the future, not
muddying the vision of prescients; that was just a side-effect, no?

If my suspicions about the predominant ethnic origins of the Ixians
are right, they'd have been more likely to create a Dune I Ching. :D

SandChigger wrote:

> But the purpose of the Tarot was presumably telling the future, not
> muddying the vision of prescients; that was just a side-effect, no?

Wasn't there talk of someone "flooding" the marketplace with the Tarot.
Almost seemed that that the implication was a type of sabotage. Or I may
not be remembering right. As stated, I need to do a reread.

WM

>
> If my suspicions about the predominant ethnic origins of the Ixians
> are right, they'd have been more likely to create a Dune I Ching. :D

"Wild Monkshood" <Wild_Monkshood@windstream.net> wrote in message
news:880fe$47ff7185$62102c63$21354@ALLTEL.NET...
>
>
> SandChigger wrote:
>
>> But the purpose of the Tarot was presumably telling the future, not
>> muddying the vision of prescients; that was just a side-effect, no?
>
> Wasn't there talk of someone "flooding" the marketplace with the Tarot.
> Almost seemed that that the implication was a type of sabotage.

T: That's what I remembered. If so, it becomes relevant to look for the
motive for such sabotage. However, SandChigger, Are you saying that the
Ixian's were probably Chinese? Why do you think that? :-)

The real side-effect of the Tarot would make it perfect as a weapon
against prescients. The more available it was on the market and the
more it was being used, the muddier things would get. So flooding the
marketplace with it was the intentional act.

On Apr 12, 8:55 am, "Tony" <t...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> However, SandChigger, Are you saying that the
> Ixian's were probably Chinese?  Why do you think that?  :-)

The original settlers were apparently of European stock (they used
Roman numerals), but it seems there was a shift in language, at least,
to something more Sino-Japanese:

"Muad'Dib's religion had another name now; it was Shien-san-Shao, an
Ixian label which designated the intensity and insanity of those who
thought they could bring the universe to paradise at the point of a
crysknife. But that too would change as lx had changed. For they were
merely the ninth planet of their sun, and had even forgotten the
language which had given them their name." (CoD)

;D

S: The original settlers were apparently of European stock (they used
Roman numerals), but it seems there was a shift in language, at least,
to something more Sino-Japanese:

"Muad'Dib's religion had another name now; it was Shien-san-Shao, an
Ixian label which designated the intensity and insanity of those who
thought they could bring the universe to paradise at the point of a
crysknife. But that too would change as lx had changed. For they were
merely the ninth planet of their sun, and had even forgotten the
language which had given them their name." (CoD)

;D

T: The name Bronso sounded European. For example, it might be derived from
Middle English and mean something like Brown man's son. However, the name
Hwi Noree sounded Asian: perhaps Korean.

I meant to bring this up as well, but forgot about it:

In Grunters and Sadworms, there is an Ixian character named Shayama
Sen...which sort of looks Japanese. (The surname is an actual name
used in Japan; the personal one is really iffy, but contains elements
of Japanese names or words.)

Now while I doubt Frank Herbert had anything to do (in his Notes or
other materials) with the creation of this character or his naming, I
think this indicates at the very least that Pinky and the Brain (or
someone) may have picked up on the same hints that I did. ;)

(I've posted on my own blog and in comments on Amazon about Brian
Herbert's silly use of Japanese elements in character names in his
Timeweb book. His protagonist is named Noah Watanabe, Watanabe being a
fairly common surname. But the character's father's name is Saito
Watanabe...two surnames, in other words. And while you do get people
with name-parts that could both be either given names or surnames,
Saito is never used that way. It just makes the author look stupid.

Of course, BH's Timeweb contains a lot more that makes him look
stupid. And a bad, bad writer. So not such a major point, I guess. :D )

"SandChigger" <sandchigger@mac.com> wrote in message news:
>I meant to bring this up as well, but forgot about it:
>
> In Grunters and Sadworms, there is an Ixian character named Shayama
> Sen...which sort of looks Japanese. (The surname is an actual name
> used in Japan; the personal one is really iffy, but contains elements
> of Japanese names or words.)
>
> Now while I doubt Frank Herbert had anything to do (in his Notes or
> other materials) with the creation of this character or his naming, I
> think this indicates at the very least that Pinky and the Brain (or
> someone) may have picked up on the same hints that I did. ;)
>
> (I've posted on my own blog and in comments on Amazon about Brian
> Herbert's silly use of Japanese elements in character names in his
> Timeweb book. His protagonist is named Noah Watanabe, Watanabe being a
> fairly common surname. But the character's father's name is Saito
> Watanabe...two surnames, in other words. And while you do get people
> with name-parts that could both be either given names or surnames,
> Saito is never used that way. It just makes the author look stupid.
>
> Of course, BH's Timeweb contains a lot more that makes him look
> stupid. And a bad, bad writer. So not such a major point, I guess. :D )

That is interesting. . . about the Asian names in the Dune books. :-)