Apteryx
02-15-2008, 05:19 AM
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsmtsm@wildmail.com> wrote in message
news:0c5f3a63-7e17-47d7-8a81-37aff6dce7a2@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
>Season Six, Episode 15: "Hell's Bells"
I've fallen a bit behind. I blame the fact that a couple of
weeks ago I was so much up with the play that I even believed I had time to
reply in detail to a detailed reply of yours. Turned out that I didn't have
time to finish it in one sitting, and that that was the last opportunity I
had for any comments for two weeks. I guess I'd better defer trying to write
replies to replies until you get into the stuff I won't be rewatching and
probably won't be commenting much on (the mid section of the horrible
season).
>depiction of a nightmare-fantasy, and some painfully bad humor.
Yay for the painfully bad humour. At least any of the stuff with either
Buffy or Anya in it.
>bride left sobbing at the alter). A comment that I found helpful from
>the original thread (from Michael) is that Xander's choice is
>[supposed to be] an epiphany, not a moment of panic.
The trouble with that is that although we recognise that a person who comes
to an honest and logical decision that they do not want to marry someone
should not go through with it, even if it should happen that they don't
realise it until their wedding day, in practice when we see someone opting
out that late, we figure the odds are that Captain Logic is not steering
this tugboat. We smell Captain Fear at the wheel. There is nothing really
done to dispel that assumption, and Xander's attitude in subsequent episodes
tends to confirm it.
>Rating: Weak
Anya's vows and Spike's date and a few other funnies are enough to get this
to Decent for me. It's my 112th favourite BtVS episode, 15th best in season
6 (last year was 115th and 16th).
>Season Six, Episode 16: "Normal Again"
>definitively say that Sunnydale is the real story. Thanks to our
>discussions afterward, I soon came to see that ambiguity as one of the
>show's greatest strengths. Buffy has no way to dodge the moment that
>the whole season has been leading up to: she has to see the easy path
>contrasted with the harder life, and say, using only her heart, "I
>choose to live."
And of course regardless of whether Sunnydale Buffy or institutional Buffy
is "real", that choice is key. The Buffy that we have been watching for the
past 6 seasons, whether that Buffy is the direct creation of Joss Whedon or
of a fictional insane girl who is herself a creation of Joss Whedon, that
Buffy chooses to live. Even if that choice is only by a doubly fictional
Buffy, reflecting the choice of a singly fictional insane Buffy to embrace
her delusion.
>Rating: Excellent
Excellent for me too. It's my 11th favourite BtVS episode, 2nd best in
season 6 (last time was 8th and 2nd)
>Season Six, Episode 17: "Entropy"
>I've never been a huge fan of "Entropy,"
Not surprised about that - its funny
>needed to get us there, and the jokes work just frequently enough to
>keep the viewer on board. (I like William's idea of how the Anya-
>recruiting-people sequence could be trimmed to end with a montage of
>punchlines, but then how'd they pad out the hour?)
Wouldn't work - the main point of the of those gags is the dedication and
desperation with which which Anya tries to set up those wishes, not just her
ultimate failure in each case.
>Rating: Decent
Good for me. It sets up Seeing Red perfectly. All the relationships are
breaking down, except one, with Willow and Tara getting back together. But
we know there's always more entropy to go around (if the 2nd Law of
Thermodynamics is anything to go by). It's my 46th favourite BtVS episode,
4th best in season 6 (last time was 52nd and 3rd)
>Season Six, Episode 18: "Seeing Red"
>One thing that jumped out at me is an indication of what kind of
>series this is. We've just gone through an episode that tends to be,
>shall we say, on the dark side, including some brutal acts of
>violence. Then we have a big cathartic fight that tilts the pendulum
>back to fantasy with Buffy smashing the villain's "balls..." and then he
>takes off with a freakin' jet-pack. It's so amazingly silly that what
>can you do but say 'oh, come on?!" I don't know why I didn't
>appreciate it, but even in an episode like this, BTVS can turn die-
>laughing hilarious on a dime, and then turn back to brutality for the
>ending just as quickly.
>There's a lot to like about the way the pieces of the season snap
>together for its climax, and I appreciate the craft in the way Spike
>is forced to confront head-on how hopeless his predicament is, the way
>the episode explores how grounded in humanity Warren's evil is, and
>the excellent B/X exchanges. But does everything have to be so
>extreme and unpleasant to watch (I don't find dark or depressing
>things to necessarily be unpleasant viewing, but parts of SR are - the
>rape attempt more so than the death scene)? Does the volume need to
>be turned so high up - Spike's evil becoming clear in the most stock-
>evil way, with Buffy spending so much time loudly begging him to
>stop? Do characters always need to be killed off within a day of
>becoming their very happiest? (Apparently so, if you're Joss.) All
>in all, of all the episodes in the series, including the ones I hate,
>"Seeing Red" is the hardest one for me to watch. As I'm sure you can
>tell, I haven't quite figured out whether or not that's a good thing,
>but just like last time, I'm leaning towards "mostly."
>Rating: Good
Good for me too. I'm in no doubt that I think the balance of tragedy and the
absurd is a good thing, and that the way the melodrama is turned up in the
rape scene and in the emphasis of making Willow and Tara as happy as
possible before the tragedy is a bad thing, but not significant enough to be
a fatal flaw. It is important too that the death of Tara be in such a random
and mundane manner to fit in with the theme of mundanity this season. It's
my 62nd favourite BtVS, 6th best in season 6 (last year was 66th and 7th).
--
Apteryx
news:0c5f3a63-7e17-47d7-8a81-37aff6dce7a2@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
>Season Six, Episode 15: "Hell's Bells"
I've fallen a bit behind. I blame the fact that a couple of
weeks ago I was so much up with the play that I even believed I had time to
reply in detail to a detailed reply of yours. Turned out that I didn't have
time to finish it in one sitting, and that that was the last opportunity I
had for any comments for two weeks. I guess I'd better defer trying to write
replies to replies until you get into the stuff I won't be rewatching and
probably won't be commenting much on (the mid section of the horrible
season).
>depiction of a nightmare-fantasy, and some painfully bad humor.
Yay for the painfully bad humour. At least any of the stuff with either
Buffy or Anya in it.
>bride left sobbing at the alter). A comment that I found helpful from
>the original thread (from Michael) is that Xander's choice is
>[supposed to be] an epiphany, not a moment of panic.
The trouble with that is that although we recognise that a person who comes
to an honest and logical decision that they do not want to marry someone
should not go through with it, even if it should happen that they don't
realise it until their wedding day, in practice when we see someone opting
out that late, we figure the odds are that Captain Logic is not steering
this tugboat. We smell Captain Fear at the wheel. There is nothing really
done to dispel that assumption, and Xander's attitude in subsequent episodes
tends to confirm it.
>Rating: Weak
Anya's vows and Spike's date and a few other funnies are enough to get this
to Decent for me. It's my 112th favourite BtVS episode, 15th best in season
6 (last year was 115th and 16th).
>Season Six, Episode 16: "Normal Again"
>definitively say that Sunnydale is the real story. Thanks to our
>discussions afterward, I soon came to see that ambiguity as one of the
>show's greatest strengths. Buffy has no way to dodge the moment that
>the whole season has been leading up to: she has to see the easy path
>contrasted with the harder life, and say, using only her heart, "I
>choose to live."
And of course regardless of whether Sunnydale Buffy or institutional Buffy
is "real", that choice is key. The Buffy that we have been watching for the
past 6 seasons, whether that Buffy is the direct creation of Joss Whedon or
of a fictional insane girl who is herself a creation of Joss Whedon, that
Buffy chooses to live. Even if that choice is only by a doubly fictional
Buffy, reflecting the choice of a singly fictional insane Buffy to embrace
her delusion.
>Rating: Excellent
Excellent for me too. It's my 11th favourite BtVS episode, 2nd best in
season 6 (last time was 8th and 2nd)
>Season Six, Episode 17: "Entropy"
>I've never been a huge fan of "Entropy,"
Not surprised about that - its funny
>needed to get us there, and the jokes work just frequently enough to
>keep the viewer on board. (I like William's idea of how the Anya-
>recruiting-people sequence could be trimmed to end with a montage of
>punchlines, but then how'd they pad out the hour?)
Wouldn't work - the main point of the of those gags is the dedication and
desperation with which which Anya tries to set up those wishes, not just her
ultimate failure in each case.
>Rating: Decent
Good for me. It sets up Seeing Red perfectly. All the relationships are
breaking down, except one, with Willow and Tara getting back together. But
we know there's always more entropy to go around (if the 2nd Law of
Thermodynamics is anything to go by). It's my 46th favourite BtVS episode,
4th best in season 6 (last time was 52nd and 3rd)
>Season Six, Episode 18: "Seeing Red"
>One thing that jumped out at me is an indication of what kind of
>series this is. We've just gone through an episode that tends to be,
>shall we say, on the dark side, including some brutal acts of
>violence. Then we have a big cathartic fight that tilts the pendulum
>back to fantasy with Buffy smashing the villain's "balls..." and then he
>takes off with a freakin' jet-pack. It's so amazingly silly that what
>can you do but say 'oh, come on?!" I don't know why I didn't
>appreciate it, but even in an episode like this, BTVS can turn die-
>laughing hilarious on a dime, and then turn back to brutality for the
>ending just as quickly.
>There's a lot to like about the way the pieces of the season snap
>together for its climax, and I appreciate the craft in the way Spike
>is forced to confront head-on how hopeless his predicament is, the way
>the episode explores how grounded in humanity Warren's evil is, and
>the excellent B/X exchanges. But does everything have to be so
>extreme and unpleasant to watch (I don't find dark or depressing
>things to necessarily be unpleasant viewing, but parts of SR are - the
>rape attempt more so than the death scene)? Does the volume need to
>be turned so high up - Spike's evil becoming clear in the most stock-
>evil way, with Buffy spending so much time loudly begging him to
>stop? Do characters always need to be killed off within a day of
>becoming their very happiest? (Apparently so, if you're Joss.) All
>in all, of all the episodes in the series, including the ones I hate,
>"Seeing Red" is the hardest one for me to watch. As I'm sure you can
>tell, I haven't quite figured out whether or not that's a good thing,
>but just like last time, I'm leaning towards "mostly."
>Rating: Good
Good for me too. I'm in no doubt that I think the balance of tragedy and the
absurd is a good thing, and that the way the melodrama is turned up in the
rape scene and in the emphasis of making Willow and Tara as happy as
possible before the tragedy is a bad thing, but not significant enough to be
a fatal flaw. It is important too that the death of Tara be in such a random
and mundane manner to fit in with the theme of mundanity this season. It's
my 62nd favourite BtVS, 6th best in season 6 (last year was 66th and 7th).
--
Apteryx