>It's a clever idea that he meant "another Adama", but Dee wasn't an
>Adama at the time so can't count - the phrase was "Adama *is* a
>Cylon". Lee gets discounted because of the picture, and because there
>aren't any clues at all that suggest he's the Cylon unless you
>interpret the Hybrid's comment as having something to do with his
>'stepping out from his father's shadow'.

what if it's Zack Adama? I mean ok he's supposed to be dead but as one of
the cylon's maybe he just downloaded. the only Adama's we know in the show
are Bill, Lee, and unseen Zack and Bill's father Joseph. maybe lee and
zack's mother but I can't recall her name

On 17 Feb, 05:26, "That Guy" <thew...@charter.net> wrote:
> >It's a clever idea that he meant "another Adama", but Dee wasn't an
> >Adama at the time so can't count - the phrase was "Adama *is* a
> >Cylon". Lee gets discounted because of the picture, and because there
> >aren't any clues at all that suggest he's the Cylon unless you
> >interpret the Hybrid's comment as having something to do with his
> >'stepping out from his father's shadow'.
>
> what if it's Zack Adama? I mean ok he's supposed to be dead but as one of
> the cylon's maybe he just downloaded. the only Adama's we know in the show
> are Bill, Lee, and unseen Zack and Bill's father Joseph. maybe lee and
> zack's mother but I can't recall her name

We're told the character appered in the miniseries - that rules out
Carolyn (but not, to be pedantic, Zak, who was in a photo in that
episode), but realistically it's not satisfactory for it to be either.
We're also told that there are clues as to the final Cylon's identity,
and no clues point to either of these characters. Lee causes a host of
problems - how can he be a Cylon and Adama not, without inventing a
host of false memories, cover-ups or whatever on both his and his
father's part? For that matter, Bill causes a few problems as we'd
then have to accept a half-Cylon Lee with all the story issues that
being semi-toaster brings. The other four Cylons are all characters
who either don't have children or whose children were born after Hera
(who therefore remains 'the first of the new generation').

Phil

On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 05:18:28 -0800 (PST), pbowles@aol.com wrote:

>On 17 Feb, 05:26, "That Guy" <thew...@charter.net> wrote:
>> >It's a clever idea that he meant "another Adama", but Dee wasn't an
>> >Adama at the time so can't count - the phrase was "Adama *is* a
>> >Cylon". Lee gets discounted because of the picture, and because there
>> >aren't any clues at all that suggest he's the Cylon unless you
>> >interpret the Hybrid's comment as having something to do with his
>> >'stepping out from his father's shadow'.
>>
>> what if it's Zack Adama? I mean ok he's supposed to be dead but as one of
>> the cylon's maybe he just downloaded. the only Adama's we know in the show
>> are Bill, Lee, and unseen Zack and Bill's father Joseph. maybe lee and
>> zack's mother but I can't recall her name
>
>We're told the character appered in the miniseries - that rules out
>Carolyn (but not, to be pedantic, Zak, who was in a photo in that
>episode), but realistically it's not satisfactory for it to be either.
>We're also told that there are clues as to the final Cylon's identity,
>and no clues point to either of these characters. Lee causes a host of
>problems - how can he be a Cylon and Adama not, without inventing a
>host of false memories, cover-ups or whatever on both his and his
>father's part? For that matter, Bill causes a few problems as we'd
>then have to accept a half-Cylon Lee with all the story issues that
>being semi-toaster brings. The other four Cylons are all characters
>who either don't have children or whose children were born after Hera
>(who therefore remains 'the first of the new generation').
>
>Phil

Adama is Misdirection.
The Doctor?

(A different) Phil

That Guy wrote:
>
> >It's a clever idea that he meant "another Adama", but Dee wasn't an
> >Adama at the time so can't count - the phrase was "Adama *is* a
> >Cylon". Lee gets discounted because of the picture, and because there
> >aren't any clues at all that suggest he's the Cylon unless you
> >interpret the Hybrid's comment as having something to do with his
> >'stepping out from his father's shadow'.
>
> what if it's Zack Adama? I mean ok he's supposed to be dead but as one of
> the cylon's maybe he just downloaded. the only Adama's we know in the show
> are Bill, Lee, and unseen Zack and Bill's father Joseph. maybe lee and
> zack's mother but I can't recall her name

And Lee's wife. Mrs. Adama.

pbowles@aol.com wrote:
>
> On 17 Feb, 05:26, "That Guy" <thew...@charter.net> wrote:
> > >It's a clever idea that he meant "another Adama", but Dee wasn't an
> > >Adama at the time so can't count - the phrase was "Adama *is* a
> > >Cylon". Lee gets discounted because of the picture, and because there
> > >aren't any clues at all that suggest he's the Cylon unless you
> > >interpret the Hybrid's comment as having something to do with his
> > >'stepping out from his father's shadow'.
> >
> > what if it's Zack Adama? I mean ok he's supposed to be dead but as one of
> > the cylon's maybe he just downloaded. the only Adama's we know in the show
> > are Bill, Lee, and unseen Zack and Bill's father Joseph. maybe lee and
> > zack's mother but I can't recall her name
>
> We're told the character appered in the miniseries - that rules out

Partial cast lists of those from the beginning, which I take to be the miniseries

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battlestar_Galactica_%28TV_miniseries%29#Cast

and

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0314979/fullcredits#cast


> Carolyn (but not, to be pedantic, Zak, who was in a photo in that
> episode), but realistically it's not satisfactory for it to be either.
> We're also told that there are clues as to the final Cylon's identity,
> and no clues point to either of these characters. Lee causes a host of
> problems - how can he be a Cylon and Adama not, without inventing a
> host of false memories, cover-ups or whatever on both his and his
> father's part? For that matter, Bill causes a few problems as we'd
> then have to accept a half-Cylon Lee with all the story issues that
> being semi-toaster brings. The other four Cylons are all characters
> who either don't have children or whose children were born after Hera
> (who therefore remains 'the first of the new generation').
>

Phil wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 05:18:28 -0800 (PST), pbowles@aol.com wrote:
> >On 17 Feb, 05:26, "That Guy" <thew...@charter.net> wrote:
> >> >It's a clever idea that he meant "another Adama", but Dee wasn't an
> >> >Adama at the time so can't count - the phrase was "Adama *is* a
> >> >Cylon". Lee gets discounted because of the picture, and because there
> >> >aren't any clues at all that suggest he's the Cylon unless you
> >> >interpret the Hybrid's comment as having something to do with his
> >> >'stepping out from his father's shadow'.
> >>
> >> what if it's Zack Adama? I mean ok he's supposed to be dead but as one of
> >> the cylon's maybe he just downloaded. the only Adama's we know in the show
> >> are Bill, Lee, and unseen Zack and Bill's father Joseph. maybe lee and
> >> zack's mother but I can't recall her name
> >
> >We're told the character appered in the miniseries - that rules out
> >Carolyn (but not, to be pedantic, Zak, who was in a photo in that
> >episode), but realistically it's not satisfactory for it to be either.
> >We're also told that there are clues as to the final Cylon's identity,
> >and no clues point to either of these characters. Lee causes a host of
> >problems - how can he be a Cylon and Adama not, without inventing a
> >host of false memories, cover-ups or whatever on both his and his
> >father's part? For that matter, Bill causes a few problems as we'd
> >then have to accept a half-Cylon Lee with all the story issues that
> >being semi-toaster brings. The other four Cylons are all characters
> >who either don't have children or whose children were born after Hera
> >(who therefore remains 'the first of the new generation').
> >
> >Phil
>
> Adama is Misdirection.
> The Doctor?

Something I'd had considered too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Cottle
....
Cottle appears to have a strict sense of medical ethics (possibly having sworn the
Colonial equivalent of Earth's Hippocratic oath), and does not discriminate between
human and Cylon patients: he describes the sexual assault of Sharon "Athena"
Agathon as "unforgivable"; he delivers her baby, Hera, by Caesarean section; after
the Cylon occupation of New Caprica, Cottle even provides medical care to critically
injured Cylons.
....

> (A different) Phil

In article <120b8ba9-699a-4435-b3cf-cac2d3d8d642@j28g2000hsj.googlegroups.com>,
<pbowles@aol.com> wrote:
>On 17 Feb, 05:26, "That Guy" <thew...@charter.net> wrote:
>> >It's a clever idea that he meant "another Adama", but Dee wasn't an
>> >Adama at the time so can't count - the phrase was "Adama *is* a
>> >Cylon". Lee gets discounted because of the picture, and because there
>> >aren't any clues at all that suggest he's the Cylon unless you
>> >interpret the Hybrid's comment as having something to do with his
>> >'stepping out from his father's shadow'.
>>
>> what if it's Zack Adama? I mean ok he's supposed to be dead but as one of
>> the cylon's maybe he just downloaded. the only Adama's we know in the show
>> are Bill, Lee, and unseen Zack and Bill's father Joseph. maybe lee and
>> zack's mother but I can't recall her name
>
>We're told the character appered in the miniseries - that rules out
>Carolyn (but not, to be pedantic, Zak, who was in a photo in that
>episode), but realistically it's not satisfactory for it to be either.
>We're also told that there are clues as to the final Cylon's identity,
>and no clues point to either of these characters. Lee causes a host of
>problems - how can he be a Cylon and Adama not, without inventing a
>host of false memories, cover-ups or whatever on both his and his
>father's part? For that matter, Bill causes a few problems as we'd
>then have to accept a half-Cylon Lee with all the story issues that
>being semi-toaster brings. The other four Cylons are all characters
>who either don't have children or whose children were born after Hera
>(who therefore remains 'the first of the new generation').
>
>Phil

The Final Five have had a lifelong interest in Bill Adama and
Galactica. They sent one of their own to be his best friend 40 years ago
and eventual XO. They put another in his crew. They had a third in the
staff of the Education Minister who would be on Galactica for the
attack. One on the planet managed to get to Galactica through, if you
think about it, ridiculously improbable circumstances. And the fifth
is almost surely with the fleet somehow -- we don't know how.

With such a long-term interest, such detailed manipulation, going back
decades, suggesting they planted one of their own as his son, either in
the womb, or with a baby-swap at the hospital -- surely easily within
their abilities -- is not really a big leap at all.

Not that I'm saying it's Lee. Or Zak or Joseph. Just that it would
be unwise to think those choses are precluded. While it may not be
one of those, it would not be surprising if it's not somebody who has
been linked to the Adama story for many years.

Though I currently think it's Baltar, who also made his way onto
Galactica through an incredible series of coincidences, when he really
should have died in a nuclear blast that demolished his home.
--
A watched populace never boils
http://www.templetons.com/brad/watched.html

> Though I currently think it's Baltar, who also made his way onto
> Galactica through an incredible series of coincidences, when he really
> should have died in a nuclear blast that demolished his home.

You mean he didnt? :D

In article <ez6xj.8476$f8.3955@newsfe23.lga>,
V&S <videoandstream@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Though I currently think it's Baltar, who also made his way onto
>> Galactica through an incredible series of coincidences, when he really
>> should have died in a nuclear blast that demolished his home.
>
>You mean he didnt? :D

You have the smiley but some may not be aware of the debate that
surrounded that. Many asked, "How does he go from being that close
to the blast to wandering in a field with just a few cuts and
scratches?"

Now on one hand, it's a blast big enough to tear apart his house,
it should certainly have injured him more than that. He had a Cylon
put her body in front of the blast and knock him down, which would
make it possible for him to survive, we can assume, but not with just
a couple of cuts.

But we'll never really know how close he was, how much protection
#6's body provided, or how he got to that field where Helo and #8
landed.

But it is a remarkable set of events that bring him onto Galactica.

As I noted, it's also an incredible sequence for Anders, but in this
case evidence suggests he wasn't planned as a Cylon until long after
this, so perhaps incredible coincidences are just TV writing.

However, at this point, the Galactica's surviving the attack
can't be luck or skill, not with 3, and possibly 4 of the final 5 on board (or
just recently on board and still nearby) during the attack.
--
Visit Burning Man 2001 in my photojournals
http://www.templetons.com/brad/photo/bm01

On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 07:14:04 -0000, btm@templetons.com (Brad
Templeton) wrote:

>In article <ez6xj.8476$f8.3955@newsfe23.lga>,
>V&S <videoandstream@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Though I currently think it's Baltar, who also made his way onto
>>> Galactica through an incredible series of coincidences, when he really
>>> should have died in a nuclear blast that demolished his home.
>>
>>You mean he didnt? :D
>
>You have the smiley but some may not be aware of the debate that
>surrounded that. Many asked, "How does he go from being that close
>to the blast to wandering in a field with just a few cuts and
>scratches?"
>
>Now on one hand, it's a blast big enough to tear apart his house,
>it should certainly have injured him more than that. He had a Cylon
>put her body in front of the blast and knock him down, which would
>make it possible for him to survive, we can assume, but not with just
>a couple of cuts.
>
>But we'll never really know how close he was, how much protection
>#6's body provided, or how he got to that field where Helo and #8
>landed.
>
>But it is a remarkable set of events that bring him onto Galactica.
>
>As I noted, it's also an incredible sequence for Anders, but in this
>case evidence suggests he wasn't planned as a Cylon until long after
>this, so perhaps incredible coincidences are just TV writing.
>
>However, at this point, the Galactica's surviving the attack
>can't be luck or skill, not with 3, and possibly 4 of the final 5 on board (or
>just recently on board and still nearby) during the attack.

Consider also the discovery of the Cylon transponder in the CIC on
Galactica during the second half of the original miniseries.

We were orginally led to believe that Doral put it there, but that was
neither confirmed nor denied even after he was revealed as a Cylon. We
also later found out and the end of season one that the transponder's
purpose was to broadcast a "friendly" signal so that Cylons would not
attack.

Although the Galactica DID engage the Cylons somewhat during the first
stage of the attack, the transponder MAY have warded off a much larger
Cylon force coming after them.

And why would Doral put it there? Certainly not to save his own skin.
He'd just resurrect.

But Tigh and Tyrol both had access to the CIC. Tigh more so. And both
would have had a vested interest in keeping the ship safe both as
Colonials and members of the Final Five.

;)
-A

> Consider also the discovery of the Cylon transponder in the CIC on
> Galactica during the second half of the original miniseries.
>
> We were orginally led to believe that Doral put it there, but that was
> neither confirmed nor denied even after he was revealed as a Cylon. We
> also later found out and the end of season one that the transponder's
> purpose was to broadcast a "friendly" signal so that Cylons would not
> attack.
>
> Although the Galactica DID engage the Cylons somewhat during the first
> stage of the attack, the transponder MAY have warded off a much larger
> Cylon force coming after them.
>
> And why would Doral put it there? Certainly not to save his own skin.
> He'd just resurrect.
>
> But Tigh and Tyrol both had access to the CIC. Tigh more so. And both
> would have had a vested interest in keeping the ship safe both as
> Colonials and members of the Final Five.
>
> ;)
> -A

Well you may be overlooking the obvious, suspect.
Boomer.
It may have been the intent of the Cylons to leave 1 or 2 major military
assets intact.
Why?
Simple, because whats the first thing the last remaining military assets
will do?
Rearm and retaliate, gathering as much of the straggler military assests as
they can. Pegasus did this, Galactica did not.
These leftover military ships, with infiltrator Cylons, would lead the enemy
to the human's last hidden bases, storehouses and save the Cylons the
trouble of hunting down any hidden human survivors by attracting these
survivors to a beacon of hope.
Of course the infiltrators would have to make sure that the selected assests
survived, hence a "friend or foe" beacon to make sure these ships were not
destroyed.
They would of course make sure the Cylon fleet could track these assests
and insure they never regained full strength, things like sabotaging the
water supplies or seeding bombs to take out prime systems in a fight, even
assassinating the ships commanders if they acted against the Cylon's hidden
plans.
On the Galactica, Boomer served this function and on Pegasus Gina was to act
in the same capacity.

"Allen" <notarealemailaddress@fjdibnd.com> wrote in message
news:fajgs3hkcfnmidu0r1b3fbfb1iuu4fm23g@4ax.com...
> ... And why would Doral put it there? Certainly not to save his own skin.
> He'd just resurrect.
>
> But Tigh and Tyrol both had access to the CIC. Tigh more so. And both
> would have had a vested interest in keeping the ship safe both as
> Colonials and members of the Final Five.

Once again, so did Lt. Gaeta. His post was on the bridge. With 4+ cylon
models stationed on the Battlestar (3 of the 5 and 1 of the 7) and 2+ other
models visiting (of the 7), it would make sense to mark the ship. (Tigh,
Tyrol, Boomer, Gaeta [presumed], Dorel [visiting],and what's-her-face
[Roslyn's female assistant; visiting] - did I miss anyone?).

Who is NOT a cylon:
- Any male Adama family member. (biology forbids one without the others).
- Roslyn (due to her disease, she would have been discovered earlier).

Baltar could be one, but I think it more likely that he's psychotic and
delusional, especially when he gave the nuke to the Pegasus #6. Regardless,
due to his fame before the initial disaster, if he were one, he'd be
recognized earlier on as one if any of his duplicates were around. I don't
think they'd make a production run of 1 unit for any model. Looking up and
seeing 5 at the Kobol theater doesn't rule him out - as he could see a
duplicate of himself. However, after his trial and such, I certainly think
he would have been medically tested by now and ruled out. Therefore,
although he could be, I really doubt it's him. He's crazy but human.

Lt Agathon: I don't think so. Although the 7 don't really interact with
the 5, it seems clear for the "experiment" on Caprica when he was left
behind that at least the 7 don't recognize him as such - plus his biology
due to the mixed child Hera tends to exclude him. Actually, due to tests, I
think that excludes every flight officer who was part of the boarding party
onto the infected Cylon base star (and Baltar too).

"D. Stussy" <spam@bde-arc.ampr.org> wrote in message
news:fqdo78$ee2$1@snarked.org...
> "Allen" <notarealemailaddress@fjdibnd.com> wrote in message
> news:fajgs3hkcfnmidu0r1b3fbfb1iuu4fm23g@4ax.com...
>> ... And why would Doral put it there? Certainly not to save his own skin.
>> He'd just resurrect.
>>
>> But Tigh and Tyrol both had access to the CIC. Tigh more so. And both
>> would have had a vested interest in keeping the ship safe both as
>> Colonials and members of the Final Five.
>
> Once again, so did Lt. Gaeta. His post was on the bridge. With 4+ cylon
> models stationed on the Battlestar (3 of the 5 and 1 of the 7) and 2+
> other
> models visiting (of the 7), it would make sense to mark the ship. (Tigh,
> Tyrol, Boomer, Gaeta [presumed], Dorel [visiting],and what's-her-face
> [Roslyn's female assistant; visiting] - did I miss anyone?).
>
My point is that its far more likely that it was NOT one of the final five.
The final five have not demonstrated any subconscious actions to protect
themselves and in fact no actions truly indicating that the were cylons
until the temple was found.
Meanwhile Boomer's actions were deliberate. Doral could have planted it just
as easily, after all he is a cleared visitor on a ship that about to be
de-comissioned during peacetime. If he's wandering the bridge and poking and
proding, who's going care enough to watch him?
Other Cylon's couldn't tell Tigh was a member of the final 5, Tyrol was
having sex with a Cylon on a regular basis and she didn't detect anything,
Baltar's blood checker couldn't tell them from the humans and skinjobs (Tigh
and Tyrol would be high on the list of checked people because fo thier
sensitive positions and yes I know "everyone passes" because of his fear).
While it possible that Anders had some sort of marker that caused the
centurions not to kill him while he was fighting his guerilla war, it's
unlikely the skinjobs would have ignored him without questioning why.

On Feb 25, 1:33 am, RT <traRvE...@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote:
> Phil wrote:
> > On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 05:18:28 -0800 (PST), pbow...@aol.com wrote:
> > >On 17 Feb, 05:26, "That Guy" <thew...@charter.net> wrote:
> > >> >It's a clever idea that he meant "another Adama", but Dee wasn't an
> > >> >Adama at the time so can't count - the phrase was "Adama *is* a
> > >> >Cylon". Lee gets discounted because of the picture, and because there
> > >> >aren't any clues at all that suggest he's the Cylon unless you
> > >> >interpret the Hybrid's comment as having something to do with his
> > >> >'stepping out from his father's shadow'.
>
> > >> what if it's Zack Adama? I mean ok he's supposed to be dead but as one of
> > >> the cylon's maybe he just downloaded. the only Adama's we know in the show
> > >> are Bill, Lee, and unseen Zack and Bill's father Joseph. maybe lee and
> > >> zack's mother but I can't recall her name
>
> > >We're told the character appered in the miniseries - that rules out
> > >Carolyn (but not, to be pedantic, Zak, who was in a photo in that
> > >episode), but realistically it's not satisfactory for it to be either.
> > >We're also told that there are clues as to the final Cylon's identity,
> > >and no clues point to either of these characters. Lee causes a host of
> > >problems - how can he be a Cylon and Adama not, without inventing a
> > >host of false memories, cover-ups or whatever on both his and his
> > >father's part? For that matter, Bill causes a few problems as we'd
> > >then have to accept a half-Cylon Lee with all the story issues that
> > >being semi-toaster brings. The other four Cylons are all characters
> > >who either don't have children or whose children were born after Hera
> > >(who therefore remains 'the first of the new generation').
>
> > >Phil
>
> > Adama is Misdirection.
> > The Doctor?
>
> Something I'd had considered too.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Cottle
> ...
> Cottle appears to have a strict sense of medical ethics (possibly having sworn the
> Colonial equivalent of Earth's Hippocratic oath), and does not discriminate between
> human and Cylon patients: he describes the sexual assault of Sharon "Athena"
> Agathon as "unforgivable"; he delivers her baby, Hera, by Caesarean section; after
> the Cylon occupation of New Caprica, Cottle even provides medical care to critically
> injured Cylons.
> ...
>
> > (A different) Phil

Cottle also was involved in hiding the baby, and treated the
president's cancer (he may even be controlling it to be sure that she
fulfills prophesy).

From his position, he has access to the command staff.. and may have
even started the process of waking up the other 4.

Brad Templeton wrote:
>
> In article <ez6xj.8476$f8.3955@newsfe23.lga>,
> V&S <videoandstream@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Though I currently think it's Baltar, who also made his way onto
> >> Galactica through an incredible series of coincidences, when he really
> >> should have died in a nuclear blast that demolished his home.
> >
> >You mean he didnt? :D
>
> You have the smiley but some may not be aware of the debate that
> surrounded that. Many asked, "How does he go from being that close
> to the blast to wandering in a field with just a few cuts and
> scratches?"
>
> Now on one hand, it's a blast big enough to tear apart his house,
> it should certainly have injured him more than that. He had a Cylon

The blast was a long ways away and blowing out windows does not tear
down the house.

> put her body in front of the blast and knock him down, which would
> make it possible for him to survive, we can assume, but not with just
> a couple of cuts.

Why not?

> But we'll never really know how close he was, how much protection
> #6's body provided, or how he got to that field where Helo and #8
> landed.

He followed the crowds. His house was not in the city but outside.

> But it is a remarkable set of events that bring him onto Galactica.
>
> As I noted, it's also an incredible sequence for Anders, but in this
> case evidence suggests he wasn't planned as a Cylon until long after
> this, so perhaps incredible coincidences are just TV writing.
>
> However, at this point, the Galactica's surviving the attack
> can't be luck or skill, not with 3, and possibly 4 of the final 5 on board (or
> just recently on board and still nearby) during the attack.

The Galactica was decommissioned and no longer an offensive risk to a large
cylon fleet. Why target it?

Allen wrote:
>
> On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 07:14:04 -0000, btm@templetons.com (Brad
> Templeton) wrote:
>
> >In article <ez6xj.8476$f8.3955@newsfe23.lga>,
> >V&S <videoandstream@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> Though I currently think it's Baltar, who also made his way onto
> >>> Galactica through an incredible series of coincidences, when he really
> >>> should have died in a nuclear blast that demolished his home.
> >>
> >>You mean he didnt? :D
> >
> >You have the smiley but some may not be aware of the debate that
> >surrounded that. Many asked, "How does he go from being that close
> >to the blast to wandering in a field with just a few cuts and
> >scratches?"
> >
> >Now on one hand, it's a blast big enough to tear apart his house,
> >it should certainly have injured him more than that. He had a Cylon
> >put her body in front of the blast and knock him down, which would
> >make it possible for him to survive, we can assume, but not with just
> >a couple of cuts.
> >
> >But we'll never really know how close he was, how much protection
> >#6's body provided, or how he got to that field where Helo and #8
> >landed.
> >
> >But it is a remarkable set of events that bring him onto Galactica.
> >
> >As I noted, it's also an incredible sequence for Anders, but in this
> >case evidence suggests he wasn't planned as a Cylon until long after
> >this, so perhaps incredible coincidences are just TV writing.
> >
> >However, at this point, the Galactica's surviving the attack
> >can't be luck or skill, not with 3, and possibly 4 of the final 5 on board (or
> >just recently on board and still nearby) during the attack.
>
> Consider also the discovery of the Cylon transponder in the CIC on
> Galactica during the second half of the original miniseries.
>
> We were orginally led to believe that Doral put it there, but that was
> neither confirmed nor denied even after he was revealed as a Cylon. We
> also later found out and the end of season one that the transponder's
> purpose was to broadcast a "friendly" signal so that Cylons would not
> attack.

But they did.

> Although the Galactica DID engage the Cylons somewhat during the first
> stage of the attack, the transponder MAY have warded off a much larger
> Cylon force coming after them.

Doubtful.

> And why would Doral put it there? Certainly not to save his own skin.
> He'd just resurrect.
>
> But Tigh and Tyrol both had access to the CIC. Tigh more so. And both

Lots of people had access to the CIC.

> would have had a vested interest in keeping the ship safe both as
> Colonials and members of the Final Five.
>
> ;)
> -A

That Guy wrote:
>
> > Consider also the discovery of the Cylon transponder in the CIC on
> > Galactica during the second half of the original miniseries.
> >
> > We were orginally led to believe that Doral put it there, but that was
> > neither confirmed nor denied even after he was revealed as a Cylon. We
> > also later found out and the end of season one that the transponder's
> > purpose was to broadcast a "friendly" signal so that Cylons would not
> > attack.
> >
> > Although the Galactica DID engage the Cylons somewhat during the first
> > stage of the attack, the transponder MAY have warded off a much larger
> > Cylon force coming after them.
> >
> > And why would Doral put it there? Certainly not to save his own skin.
> > He'd just resurrect.
> >
> > But Tigh and Tyrol both had access to the CIC. Tigh more so. And both
> > would have had a vested interest in keeping the ship safe both as
> > Colonials and members of the Final Five.
> >
> > ;)
> > -A
>
> Well you may be overlooking the obvious, suspect.
> Boomer.
> It may have been the intent of the Cylons to leave 1 or 2 major military
> assets intact.
> Why?
> Simple, because whats the first thing the last remaining military assets
> will do?
> Rearm and retaliate, gathering as much of the straggler military assests as
> they can. Pegasus did this, Galactica did not.

One or two ships against alllllll the basestars? Doubtful.

> These leftover military ships, with infiltrator Cylons, would lead the enemy
> to the human's last hidden bases, storehouses and save the Cylons the
> trouble of hunting down any hidden human survivors by attracting these
> survivors to a beacon of hope.
> Of course the infiltrators would have to make sure that the selected assests
> survived, hence a "friend or foe" beacon to make sure these ships were not
> destroyed.
> They would of course make sure the Cylon fleet could track these assests
> and insure they never regained full strength, things like sabotaging the
> water supplies or seeding bombs to take out prime systems in a fight, even
> assassinating the ships commanders if they acted against the Cylon's hidden
> plans.
> On the Galactica, Boomer served this function and on Pegasus Gina was to act
> in the same capacity.

In article <UBoyj.684$Mt.590@newsfe05.lga>,
That Guy <thewall@charter.net> wrote:
>It may have been the intent of the Cylons to leave 1 or 2 major military
>assets intact.
>Why?
>Simple, because whats the first thing the last remaining military assets
>will do?

Not for that reason. There's very little "maybe" about this but
the ambiguous part of the sentence above is "The Cylons."

On board the Galactica was it's XO, Tigh, and CPO Tyrol, and on board
Colonial One near the Galactica was Tory Foster. Three members
of the Final Five. And the final member of the F5 may well also have
been there -- or if it's Baltar, managed to get there via amazing
coincidences.

So 3, perhaps 4 of the F5 are at the one ship to survive? That is
no accident. But it may not have been part of the plan of the S7
Cylons, but it certainly seems to have been part of the plan of the F5.

Boomer's presence is not a special. The S7 were infliltrating
copies of themselves onto as many ships and facilties as they could.
However, it seems extremely unlikely that there were other copies
of Tigh on ships, as he would be well known around the fleet.
(Though a younger Tigh could be out there, as well as an older Tyrol.)


--
Visit Burning Man 2003 in my photojournals
http://www.templetons.com/brad/photo/bm03/

In article <47E58FD6.D78BC53F@hotmMOVEail.com>,
RT <traRvEsky@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote:
>> Now on one hand, it's a blast big enough to tear apart his house,
>> it should certainly have injured him more than that. He had a Cylon
>
>The blast was a long ways away and blowing out windows does not tear
>down the house.

That's not what I saw, but obviously you differ. We were shown
a major shockwave of the sort you get when close.

>> put her body in front of the blast and knock him down, which would
>> make it possible for him to survive, we can assume, but not with just
>> a couple of cuts.
>
>Why not?

Well, she's not as wide as he is and debris was flying in all
directions.
>
>> But we'll never really know how close he was, how much protection
>> #6's body provided, or how he got to that field where Helo and #8
>> landed.
>
>He followed the crowds. His house was not in the city but outside.

His house was on a waterway, in a forested area. Not many crowds
to follow, but again, the odds of him being the one adult who makes
it off an entire planet, because Helo gives up his seat? If he
does turn out to be the final Cylon, I think this is no accident.
>
>> However, at this point, the Galactica's surviving the attack
>> can't be luck or skill, not with 3, and possibly 4 of the final 5 on
>board (or
>> just recently on board and still nearby) during the attack.
>
>The Galactica was decommissioned and no longer an offensive risk to a large
>cylon fleet. Why target it?

They did target it, nonetheless. It survived because its system were
not taken over by the computer backdoors. They also had a #8 and a
Doral there -- it was certainly not an item of disinterest.

However, this is beside the point. Most of the F5 were there.
Of course it would survive.
--
Visit Burning Man 2003 in my photojournals
http://www.templetons.com/brad/photo/bm03/

Brad Templeton wrote:
>
> RT <traRvEsky@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote:
> >> Now on one hand, it's a blast big enough to tear apart his house,
> >> it should certainly have injured him more than that. He had a Cylon
> >
> >The blast was a long ways away and blowing out windows does not tear
> >down the house.
>
> That's not what I saw, but obviously you differ. We were shown
> a major shockwave of the sort you get when close.

Close?

Baltar's house:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/55/138193424_deca53363e.jpg?v=0

His house is/was outside of town.

> >> put her body in front of the blast and knock him down, which would
> >> make it possible for him to survive, we can assume, but not with just
> >> a couple of cuts.
> >
> >Why not?
>
> Well, she's not as wide as he is and debris was flying in all
> directions.

He was kneeling, further reducing his exposure.

> >> But we'll never really know how close he was, how much protection
> >> #6's body provided, or how he got to that field where Helo and #8
> >> landed.
> >
> >He followed the crowds. His house was not in the city but outside.
>
> His house was on a waterway, in a forested area. Not many crowds

As in not close to the blast.

> to follow, but again, the odds of him being the one adult who makes
> it off an entire planet, because Helo gives up his seat? If he

Because he was recognized and as a highly respected and trained scientist
would be of value rescued.

> does turn out to be the final Cylon, I think this is no accident.

Baltar's hardly in the shadows - hhis ego has had him front and center.

> >> However, at this point, the Galactica's surviving the attack
> >> can't be luck or skill, not with 3, and possibly 4 of the final 5 on
> >board (or
> >> just recently on board and still nearby) during the attack.
> >
> >The Galactica was decommissioned and no longer an offensive risk to a large
> >cylon fleet. Why target it?
>
> They did target it, nonetheless. It survived because its system were
> not taken over by the computer backdoors. They also had a #8 and a
> Doral there -- it was certainly not an item of disinterest.
>
> However, this is beside the point. Most of the F5 were there.
> Of course it would survive.

Assuming they knew this.

In article <47E7C2DF.B49E041E@hotmMOVEail.com>,
RT <traRvEsky@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote:
>Brad Templeton wrote:
>>
>> RT <traRvEsky@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote:
>> >> Now on one hand, it's a blast big enough to tear apart his house,
>> >> it should certainly have injured him more than that. He had a Cylon
>> >
>> >The blast was a long ways away and blowing out windows does not tear
>> >down the house.
>>
>> That's not what I saw, but obviously you differ. We were shown
>> a major shockwave of the sort you get when close.
>
>Close?
>
>Baltar's house:
>
> http://farm1.static.flickr.com/55/138193424_deca53363e.jpg?v=0
>
>His house is/was outside of town.

If you want to get specific, the house used is in this area:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Horseshoe+Bay,+BC,+Canada&ie=UTF8&ll=49.373432,-123.274155&spn=0.490014,0.610428&t=h&z=11&iwloc=addr

Just a few miles from the city in real life. Of course on Caprica who
knows where it is, but the point is that there is nothing that says this
house can't be close to the city -- because the real one actually is!

Of course the nuke comes from across the bay, where there is nothing
to nuke in real life.

Anyway, all I am saying is when I watch the scene I see a major
blast. You don't. We'll just disagree.


>> to follow, but again, the odds of him being the one adult who makes
>> it off an entire planet, because Helo gives up his seat? If he
>
>Because he was recognized and as a highly respected and trained scientist
>would be of value rescued.

Yes, I know what happened in the show. I'm still saying the odds are
ridiculous. But it's a TV show, so coincidences are what it's about.
>
>
>Baltar's hardly in the shadows - hhis ego has had him front and center.

Perhaps you think that. Again, I interpret the sentence differently.
They are not literal shadows, I suspect.
>
>> However, this is beside the point. Most of the F5 were there.
>> Of course it would survive.
>
>Assuming they knew this.

You think the final 5 had no idea the other Cylons planned a war?
The 4,000 year old beings who have lived through multiple cycles of
human/AI war on several planets, who just happened to put most of their
number on one battlestar, one of them there only on that specific day,
didn't know?

I don't mean the copies on the ship themselves, who were of course
unaware. I mean the F5 as an ancient group, who planted these versions
of themselves on Galactica and with the Education Minister.

Come on, think about it. You're putting copies of yourselves in the
colonies, making them forget who they are. You're going to make one
of them an undersecretary to the _education minister_? You're going
to make one a CPO and another the XO of an ancient, about to be
decomissioned battlestar? What sort of plan is that, unless you do
it because you know (or will arrange) that this is the one battlestar
planned to survive, that this obscure education minister will be there
on attack day and become the leader.

Sure, I can see making one of your number an atheletic star. We don't
yet know who the other one was, but it won't be somebody with no
purpose, and they won't have gotten on the fleet by accident. To wit,
they either already were with the Galactica/Roslin, or it's Baltar, who
got there against amazing odds. (At least for the likely choices.
Some of the outside choices -- Cain, Joe Adama, Zarek, Ellen -- got
there other ways.)

--
Support "Canadians for Global Warming"
http://www.templetons.com/brad/cfgw.jpg

On Feb 16, 10:26 pm, "That Guy" <thew...@charter.net> wrote:
> >It's a clever idea that he meant "another Adama", but Dee wasn't an
> >Adama at the time so can't count - the phrase was "Adama *is* a
> >Cylon". Lee gets discounted because of the picture, and because there
> >aren't any clues at all that suggest he's the Cylon unless you
> >interpret the Hybrid's comment as having something to do with his
> >'stepping out from his father's shadow'.
>
> what if it's Zack Adama? I mean ok he's supposed to be dead but as one of
> the cylon's maybe he just downloaded. the only Adama's we know in the show
> are Bill, Lee, and unseen Zack and Bill's father Joseph. maybe lee and
> zack's mother but I can't recall her name




I think it may be Starbuck

Brad Templeton wrote:
> RT <traRvEsky@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote:
> >Brad Templeton wrote:
> >> RT <traRvEsky@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote:
> >> >> Now on one hand, it's a blast big enough to tear apart his house,
> >> >> it should certainly have injured him more than that. He had a Cylon
> >> >
> >> >The blast was a long ways away and blowing out windows does not tear
> >> >down the house.
> >>
> >> That's not what I saw, but obviously you differ. We were shown
> >> a major shockwave of the sort you get when close.
> >
> >Close?
> >
> >Baltar's house:
> >
> > http://farm1.static.flickr.com/55/138193424_deca53363e.jpg?v=0
> >
> >His house is/was outside of town.
>
> If you want to get specific, the house used is in this area:
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Horseshoe+Bay,+BC,+Canada&ie=UTF8&ll=49.373432,-123.274155&spn=0.490014,0.610428&t=h&z=11&iwloc=addr

Yes, but that's not relevent here.

> Just a few miles from the city in real life. Of course on Caprica who
> knows where it is, but the point is that there is nothing that says this
> house can't be close to the city -- because the real one actually is!
>
> Of course the nuke comes from across the bay, where there is nothing
> to nuke in real life.
>
> Anyway, all I am saying is when I watch the scene I see a major
> blast. You don't. We'll just disagree.

The city is not visible, and it's easily deduced that Casa del Baltar is close
enough for blast effects. There's just some terrain in between that does some major
physical shielding.

> >> to follow, but again, the odds of him being the one adult who makes
> >> it off an entire planet, because Helo gives up his seat? If he
> >
> >Because he was recognized and as a highly respected and trained scientist
> >would be of value rescued.
>
> Yes, I know what happened in the show. I'm still saying the odds are
> ridiculous. But it's a TV show, so coincidences are what it's about.

Fantastic odds yes, but how would the cylons arrange for Baltar to head in
a specific direction and for a raptor to meet the crowd?

> >Baltar's hardly in the shadows - hhis ego has had him front and center.
>
> Perhaps you think that. Again, I interpret the sentence differently.
> They are not literal shadows, I suspect.

Literal shadows were never meant.

> >> However, this is beside the point. Most of the F5 were there.
> >> Of course it would survive.
> >
> >Assuming they knew this.
>
> You think the final 5 had no idea the other Cylons planned a war?
> The 4,000 year old beings who have lived through multiple cycles of
> human/AI war on several planets, who just happened to put most of their
> number on one battlestar, one of them there only on that specific day,
> didn't know?
>
> I don't mean the copies on the ship themselves, who were of course
> unaware. I mean the F5 as an ancient group, who planted these versions
> of themselves on Galactica and with the Education Minister.
>
> Come on, think about it. You're putting copies of yourselves in the
> colonies, making them forget who they are. You're going to make one
> of them an undersecretary to the _education minister_? You're going
> to make one a CPO and another the XO of an ancient, about to be
> decomissioned battlestar? What sort of plan is that, unless you do
> it because you know (or will arrange) that this is the one battlestar
> planned to survive, that this obscure education minister will be there
> on attack day and become the leader.
>
> Sure, I can see making one of your number an atheletic star. We don't
> yet know who the other one was, but it won't be somebody with no
> purpose, and they won't have gotten on the fleet by accident. To wit,
> they either already were with the Galactica/Roslin, or it's Baltar, who
> got there against amazing odds. (At least for the likely choices.
> Some of the outside choices -- Cain, Joe Adama, Zarek, Ellen -- got
> there other ways.)

There is not enough information for even baseless speculation.

On Mar 26, 11:07 am, Greg Brown <gregvbr...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I think it may be Starbuck

Yes, but the Dirk Benedict version.
And the reveal happens after they start dismantling the sets. The
final scene is actually in the stop-motion animation used for Moore
and Eick's cutesy/horrifyingly violent tag.

Maybe Boxey is the 5th. He did appear in the pilot, never to be seen
again......

<StrikitRich@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:58ec8b7f-4f8c-45b0-9db0-ab71ecfcda8f@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> Maybe Boxey is the 5th. He did appear in the pilot, never to be seen
> again......

For which we can thank the 12 gods of Kobol.

On Mar 26, 1:07 pm, Greg Brown <gregvbr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 16, 10:26 pm, "That Guy" <thew...@charter.net> wrote:
>
> > >It's a clever idea that he meant "another Adama", but Dee wasn't an
> > >Adama at the time so can't count - the phrase was "Adama *is* a
> > >Cylon". Lee gets discounted because of the picture, and because there
> > >aren't any clues at all that suggest he's the Cylon unless you
> > >interpret the Hybrid's comment as having something to do with his
> > >'stepping out from his father's shadow'.
>
> > what if it's Zack Adama? I mean ok he's supposed to be dead but as one of
> > the cylon's maybe he just downloaded. the only Adama's we know in the show
> > are Bill, Lee, and unseen Zack and Bill's father Joseph. maybe lee and
> > zack's mother but I can't recall her name
>
> I think it may be Starbuck


I agree. We all saw her blow up in her Viper and now she's coming back
from the dead.

That's what Cylons do, isn't it? ;-)

Tom

Ron Moore said she is not a cylon.

http://www.patriotresource.com/bg/insights/spoilers/season4/general.html
"4/2/08: Ron Moore reiterated that no one in the Last Supper promotional photo
(www.scifi.com/battlestar) is the Final Cylon."
From Ron Moore Chicago Tribune Interview

--

Randy Byrne
JAHP


"toytom" <drsoong@aol.com> wrote in message
news:b436667a-3bd2-4a89-beaf-18452bce6633@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 26, 1:07 pm, Greg Brown <gregvbr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On Feb 16, 10:26 pm, "That Guy" <thew...@charter.net> wrote:
>>
>> > >It's a clever idea that he meant "another Adama", but Dee wasn't an
>> > >Adama at the time so can't count - the phrase was "Adama *is* a
>> > >Cylon". Lee gets discounted because of the picture, and because there
>> > >aren't any clues at all that suggest he's the Cylon unless you
>> > >interpret the Hybrid's comment as having something to do with his
>> > >'stepping out from his father's shadow'.
>>
>> > what if it's Zack Adama? I mean ok he's supposed to be dead but as one of
>> > the cylon's maybe he just downloaded. the only Adama's we know in the show
>> > are Bill, Lee, and unseen Zack and Bill's father Joseph. maybe lee and
>> > zack's mother but I can't recall her name
>>
>> I think it may be Starbuck
>
>
> I agree. We all saw her blow up in her Viper and now she's coming back
> from the dead.
>
> That's what Cylons do, isn't it? ;-)
>
> Tom

How about Sharon's baby?