James Cawley has announced changes to his "Star Trek: New Voyages" project:

From now on, the project will be called "Star Trek: Phase II." Cawley
is going to start using concepts from the abortive Phase II series that
Roddenberry had proposed in the 1970s. Eventually he will migrate
toward the concepts of ST:TMP as well. The uniforms worn by the cast
will be those for Phase II and eventually for ST:TMP. And he is adding
the character of Xon, a Vulcan who Roddenberry had proposed to replace
Spock.

Several other cast changes as well.



--
Steven L.
Email: sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net
Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

Steven L. wrote:
> James Cawley has announced changes to his "Star Trek: New Voyages"
> project:
>
> From now on, the project will be called "Star Trek: Phase II."
> Cawley
> is going to start using concepts from the abortive Phase II series
> that Roddenberry had proposed in the 1970s. Eventually he will
> migrate
> toward the concepts of ST:TMP as well. The uniforms worn by the cast
> will be those for Phase II and eventually for ST:TMP. And he is
> adding the character of Xon, a Vulcan who Roddenberry had proposed to
> replace Spock.
>
> Several other cast changes as well.

Says executive producer Cawley, "We have striven to set a new standard in
fan film production by aspiring to emulate all aspects of a professional
production. Now we have achieved a new first in this sector by being the
first ever fan production to officially Jump The Shark. While previous fan
productions have quietly faded away, we are proud to be officially taking
that which has achieved a remarkable level of success for us, and throwing
it away.

"New Voyages is the most recognisable brand in the fan film sector, and
discarding that is an important factor in our new "pro quality" Shark Jump.
It also helps to be losing the better and more likable members of our cast.
But the most important factor here is jettisoning the replication of TOS,
including sets, cast, uniforms and so on. We know that millions of people
download our episodes in order to relive a nostalgia for the TV show of
yesteryear. So what better way to prove we're as good as a normal TV show
than abandoning that very element that is our raison d'etre, and thus
indubitably Shark Jumping?

"Although Star Trek: The Motion Picture has some fans, the changed
production elements from TOS, especially the uniforms, are uniformly loathed
by our potential audience. There's little doubt also that Star Trek: Phase
II, had it gone into production in the 70s, would have been lame and the
franchise would now be long dead. So what better way to leap into oblivion
than incorporating those weak elements into our show? We're especially
pleased with the idea of introducing Xon, a character whom the viewers will
know every time he is on screen is doomed to end his life as a twisted mass
of screaming flesh in a transporter accident, as depicted in TMP. This will
surely help our viewers disconnect as they are unable to enjoy the
adventures of a Dead Man Walking. Dressing him and the rest of our crew in
pastel pyjamas will only add to the effect.

"As amateurs, we've worked hard to identify those aspects of TV that
indicate a professional production. Jumping The Shark is one of the most
important of those elements, and we're very proud indeed that on our minimal
budget, and after only 4 episodes, we have already managed to reach that
stage. Other shows take years to get there. We are boldly going where no fan
production has gone before; around the U-bend.

"Jaxtraw" <jax@knickersjaxtrawstudios.com> wrote in
news:47bbe175$0$8426$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk:

> We're especially pleased with the idea of
> introducing Xon, a character whom the viewers will know every time
> he is on screen is doomed to end his life as a twisted mass of
> screaming flesh in a transporter accident, as depicted in TMP.

Someone doesn't know Trek from Uranus. Sonak died in the transporter
accident, the character of Xon was never in TMP.

"Steven L." <sdlitvin@earthlink.net> wrote...
> James Cawley has announced changes to his "Star Trek: New Voyages"
> project:
>
> From now on, the project will be called "Star Trek: Phase II." Cawley
> is going to start using concepts from the abortive Phase II series
> that Roddenberry had proposed in the 1970s. Eventually he will
> migrate toward the concepts of ST:TMP as well. The uniforms worn by
> the cast will be those for Phase II and eventually for ST:TMP. And he
> is adding the character of Xon, a Vulcan who Roddenberry had proposed
> to replace Spock.

I have a bad feeling about this...

GeneK

JD in TX wrote:
> "Jaxtraw" <jax@knickersjaxtrawstudios.com> wrote in
> news:47bbe175$0$8426$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk:
>
>> We're especially pleased with the idea of
>> introducing Xon, a character whom the viewers will know every time
>> he is on screen is doomed to end his life as a twisted mass of
>> screaming flesh in a transporter accident, as depicted in TMP.
>
> Someone doesn't know Trek from Uranus. Sonak died in the transporter
> accident, the character of Xon was never in TMP.

He was going to be.

Originally, Roddenberry invented the Xon character to take the place of
Spock, when Leonard Nimoy was hesitating about playing Spock in ST:TMP.
An actor had already been cast to play Xon when Nimoy consented to
wear the ears again.


--
Steven L.
Email: sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net
Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

GeneK wrote:
> "Steven L." <sdlitvin@earthlink.net> wrote...
>> James Cawley has announced changes to his "Star Trek: New Voyages"
>> project:
>>
>> From now on, the project will be called "Star Trek: Phase II." Cawley is
>> going to start using concepts from the abortive Phase II
>> series that Roddenberry had proposed in the 1970s. Eventually he
>> will migrate toward the concepts of ST:TMP as well. The uniforms
>> worn by the cast will be those for Phase II and eventually for
>> ST:TMP. And he is adding the character of Xon, a Vulcan who
>> Roddenberry had proposed to replace Spock.
>
> I have a bad feeling about this...
>

Yup.
Didn't they already flash forward to this sort of thing in their first
episode when they 'redid' movie scenes?


--
www.woutervalentijn.net

www.nksf.scifics.com/nksfseries.html

liam=mail

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:55:45 -0500, "Steven L."
<sdlitvin@earthlink.net> wrote:


>Originally, Roddenberry invented the Xon character to take the place of
>Spock, when Leonard Nimoy was hesitating about playing Spock in ST:TMP.
> An actor had already been cast to play Xon when Nimoy consented to
>wear the ears again.

The actor ended up as the guy with a speaking part on the Epsilon 9
tracking station. He wasn't exactly a great actor.

Brian

"JD in TX" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote...
> Sonak died in the transporter
> accident, the character of Xon was never in TMP.

Xon had his ears bobbed, changed his name
and met his end on the Epsilon 9 space station.

GeneK

In article <Q13vj.1328$lU5.742@newsread1.mlpsca01.us.to.verio. net>,
"GeneK" <gene@genek_hates_spammers.com> wrote:

> "JD in TX" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote...
> > Sonak died in the transporter
> > accident, the character of Xon was never in TMP.
>
> Xon had his ears bobbed, changed his name
> and met his end on the Epsilon 9 space station.
>
> GeneK

And then had his voice replaced in the special edition DVD so they could
make V'Ger smaller.

--
Star Trek 09:

No Shat, No Show.

"Anim8rFSK" <ANIM8Rfsk@cox.net> wrote...
> And then had his voice replaced in the special edition DVD so they
> could
> make V'Ger smaller.

No respect for the dematerialized...

GeneK

"Steven L." <sdlitvin@earthlink.net> wrote in
news:13roqd0a9rt8o13@corp.supernews.com:

> He was going to be.

That doesn't matter if he was or not. The post that I quoted said:

"We're especially pleased with the idea of introducing Xon, a character
whom the viewers will know every time he is on screen is doomed to end
his life as a twisted mass of screaming flesh in a transporter accident,
as depicted in TMP."

All of that is nonsense. Nobody is going to "know" that Xon died on the
transporter pad because he never did.

Wouter Valentijn wrote:
> GeneK wrote:
>> "Steven L." <sdlitvin@earthlink.net> wrote...
>>> James Cawley has announced changes to his "Star Trek: New Voyages"
>>> project:
>>>
>>> From now on, the project will be called "Star Trek: Phase II." Cawley is
>>> going to start using concepts from the abortive Phase II
>>> series that Roddenberry had proposed in the 1970s. Eventually he
>>> will migrate toward the concepts of ST:TMP as well. The uniforms
>>> worn by the cast will be those for Phase II and eventually for
>>> ST:TMP. And he is adding the character of Xon, a Vulcan who
>>> Roddenberry had proposed to replace Spock.
>> I have a bad feeling about this...
>>
>
> Yup.
> Didn't they already flash forward to this sort of thing in their first
> episode when they 'redid' movie scenes?

I'm wondering if Cawley's decision had anything to do with the advent of
the Trek XI movie, which he has gotten a look at when he got cast for it.

Perhaps Cawley is worrying that if Paramount produces three movies that
are set in the Pike-Kirk era (maybe even a TV series eventually), it
might overshadow his New Voyages project which is set in the same
approximate time frame. In which case he decided to find a different
niche--the Phase II era (transitional between TOS and ST:TMP). That way
his stories won't overlap Abrams' stories.



--
Steven L.
Email: sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net
Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

"Steven L." <sdlitvin@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:13rn4umbnklpk6a@corp.supernews.com...
> James Cawley has announced changes to his "Star Trek: New Voyages"
> project:
>
> From now on, the project will be called "Star Trek: Phase II." Cawley is
> going to start using concepts from the abortive Phase II series that
> Roddenberry had proposed in the 1970s. Eventually he will migrate toward
> the concepts of ST:TMP as well. The uniforms worn by the cast will be
> those for Phase II and eventually for ST:TMP. And he is adding the
> character of Xon, a Vulcan who Roddenberry had proposed to replace Spock.
>
> Several other cast changes as well.

OK, I'm going to go BIG time against the grain with this...I'm really
excited!

FINALLY, *someone* in Star Trek is taking a "leap of faith" and trying
something new. No more re-hashes of TOS, or even worse 'retro-TOS' with
prequels. Yes, yes, you probably remember that I am a *tremendous* fan of
TMP - because, to me, it feels more "futuristic" in what the technology /
look of things just might be in the bridge between now and TNG.

TOS's look had to get excused in TNG by calling it "retro", but I seriously
doubt it would be THAT "retro". Phase II looks much more promising in terms
of technological identity - touch screen controls, a *great* Con / Ops
console, a captain's chair that really makes a lot of sense (automatic
seatbelts! ^_^), optical-based computer circuits (see Engineering during
transporter accident), rad suits for the engineering crew, sleek (and
rugged) metals for the corridors, a well designed modular hanger bay,
shuttlepods...I could go on and on.

Phase II just looks "proper" for the level of technology that one would
hopefully find as commonplace in the 23rd century aboard a starship -
technical, yet not really "glitzy" just for the sake of it. Things seem to
look a certain way because of their purpose, not overdesigned just to look
nice on the screen. TNG looks great, but it also (we must admit) looks like
a hotel in some areas - and we accepted that with the understanding of a 25
year mission and therefore crew comforts must be as important as the
technology. Phase II seemed more typical of a ship-of-the-line design.

Add in Kirk's struggle with taking back the Enterprise - an admiral on a
starship is going to have to play really big league in order for Starfleet
to continue to justify it in the long run - in addition to the refitted
Enterprise's new extended abilities (higher top speed, improved weapons,
better shields, increased sensor abilities, etc) and you can tell some
really fantastic stories that may push the boundaries of what is happening
at the edge of the Federation.

I'm hoping!

"Snake" <fluidSPAMstates_no+spam@optonline.net> wrote
> FINALLY, *someone* in Star Trek is taking a "leap of faith" and trying
> something new. No more re-hashes of TOS, or even worse 'retro-TOS' with
> prequels. Yes, yes, you probably remember that I am a *tremendous* fan of
> TMP - because, to me, it feels more "futuristic" in what the technology /
> look of things just might be in the bridge between now and TNG.

I'm not too terribly concerned about all that. The part that
bothers me is where they said they're going to be using
some of the proposed *stories* for Phase II. I've read
the published descriptions of these stories, and most of
them were either so typically "wtih it" 70's that they'll be
like watching "Mod Squad in Space," or they eventually
evolved into TNG episodes...which may have been worse
than watching "Mod Squad in Space" would have been.
If they want to pull inspiration from some of the art design
for Phase II, fine, but leave the unfilmed stories in the
oblivion most of them richly deserved.

GeneK

"GeneK" <gene@genek_hates_spammers.com> wrote in message
news:QE5vj.43980$ov5.21205@newsfe15.phx...
> I'm not too terribly concerned about all that. The part that bothers me
> is where they said they're going to be using
> some of the proposed *stories* for Phase II. I've read
> the published descriptions of these stories, and most of
> them were either so typically "wtih it" 70's that they'll be like watching
> "Mod Squad in Space," or they eventually
> evolved into TNG episodes...which may have been worse
> than watching "Mod Squad in Space" would have been.

LOL!

> If they want to pull inspiration from some of the art design
> for Phase II, fine, but leave the unfilmed stories in the
> oblivion most of them richly deserved.

OK, that sounds like a fair warning. :-)

In article <QE5vj.43980$ov5.21205@newsfe15.phx>,
"GeneK" <gene@genek_hates_spammers.com> wrote:

> they'll be
> like watching "Mod Squad in Space,"

Mmmm, Peggy Lipton dressed as Diana Ewing . . .

--
Star Trek 09:

No Shat, No Show.

Steven L. wrote:
> Wouter Valentijn wrote:
>> GeneK wrote:
>>> "Steven L." <sdlitvin@earthlink.net> wrote...
>>>> James Cawley has announced changes to his "Star Trek: New Voyages"
>>>> project:
>>>>
>>>> From now on, the project will be called "Star Trek: Phase II."
>>>> Cawley is going to start using concepts from the abortive Phase II
>>>> series that Roddenberry had proposed in the 1970s. Eventually he
>>>> will migrate toward the concepts of ST:TMP as well. The uniforms
>>>> worn by the cast will be those for Phase II and eventually for
>>>> ST:TMP. And he is adding the character of Xon, a Vulcan who
>>>> Roddenberry had proposed to replace Spock.
>>> I have a bad feeling about this...
>>>
>>
>> Yup.
>> Didn't they already flash forward to this sort of thing in their
>> first episode when they 'redid' movie scenes?
>
> I'm wondering if Cawley's decision had anything to do with the advent
> of the Trek XI movie, which he has gotten a look at when he got cast
> for it.
> Perhaps Cawley is worrying that if Paramount produces three movies
> that are set in the Pike-Kirk era (maybe even a TV series
> eventually), it might overshadow his New Voyages project which is set
> in the same approximate time frame. In which case he decided to find
> a different niche--the Phase II era (transitional between TOS and
> ST:TMP). That way his stories won't overlap Abrams' stories.

If that's the case he might be jumping the gun.
Maybe after seeing the Abram movie(s) people will really start to yearn for
a more classic approach New Voyages and Exeter style (and Farragut).


--
www.woutervalentijn.net

www.nksf.scifics.com/nksfseries.html

liam=mail

GeneK wrote:
> "Anim8rFSK" <ANIM8Rfsk@cox.net> wrote...
>> And then had his voice replaced in the special edition DVD so they
>> could
>> make V'Ger smaller.
>

Yes. That was bad.

> No respect for the dematerialized...

Indeed.


--
www.woutervalentijn.net

www.nksf.scifics.com/nksfseries.html

liam=mail

Wouter Valentijn wrote:
> Steven L. wrote:
>> Wouter Valentijn wrote:
>>> GeneK wrote:
>>>> "Steven L." <sdlitvin@earthlink.net> wrote...
>>>>> James Cawley has announced changes to his "Star Trek: New Voyages"
>>>>> project:
>>>>>
>>>>> From now on, the project will be called "Star Trek: Phase II."
>>>>> Cawley is going to start using concepts from the abortive Phase II
>>>>> series that Roddenberry had proposed in the 1970s. Eventually he
>>>>> will migrate toward the concepts of ST:TMP as well. The uniforms
>>>>> worn by the cast will be those for Phase II and eventually for
>>>>> ST:TMP. And he is adding the character of Xon, a Vulcan who
>>>>> Roddenberry had proposed to replace Spock.
>>>> I have a bad feeling about this...
>>>>
>>> Yup.
>>> Didn't they already flash forward to this sort of thing in their
>>> first episode when they 'redid' movie scenes?
>> I'm wondering if Cawley's decision had anything to do with the advent
>> of the Trek XI movie, which he has gotten a look at when he got cast
>> for it.
>> Perhaps Cawley is worrying that if Paramount produces three movies
>> that are set in the Pike-Kirk era (maybe even a TV series
>> eventually), it might overshadow his New Voyages project which is set
>> in the same approximate time frame. In which case he decided to find
>> a different niche--the Phase II era (transitional between TOS and
>> ST:TMP). That way his stories won't overlap Abrams' stories.
>
> If that's the case he might be jumping the gun.
> Maybe after seeing the Abram movie(s) people will really start to yearn for
> a more classic approach New Voyages and Exeter style (and Farragut).

The problem is, the Abrams movies aren't a "classic approach," insofar
as the sets are concerned. The interior sets are being completely
redone--they won't look like the TOS interiors at all. Only the exterior
shape of the ship is roughly the same.

It's hard to believe that these new audiences will want to go back to
the plywood-and-plastic type sets of TOS, after they see the new sets.


--
Steven L.
Email: sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net
Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

Steven L. wrote:
> Wouter Valentijn wrote:
>> Steven L. wrote:
>>> Wouter Valentijn wrote:
>>>> GeneK wrote:
>>>>> "Steven L." <sdlitvin@earthlink.net> wrote...
>>>>>> James Cawley has announced changes to his "Star Trek: New
>>>>>> Voyages" project:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From now on, the project will be called "Star Trek: Phase II."
>>>>>> Cawley is going to start using concepts from the abortive Phase
>>>>>> II series that Roddenberry had proposed in the 1970s. Eventually he
>>>>>> will migrate toward the concepts of ST:TMP as
>>>>>> well. The uniforms worn by the cast will be those for Phase II
>>>>>> and eventually for ST:TMP. And he is adding the character of
>>>>>> Xon, a Vulcan who Roddenberry had proposed to replace Spock.
>>>>> I have a bad feeling about this...
>>>>>
>>>> Yup.
>>>> Didn't they already flash forward to this sort of thing in their
>>>> first episode when they 'redid' movie scenes?
>>> I'm wondering if Cawley's decision had anything to do with the
>>> advent of the Trek XI movie, which he has gotten a look at when he
>>> got cast for it.
>>> Perhaps Cawley is worrying that if Paramount produces three movies
>>> that are set in the Pike-Kirk era (maybe even a TV series
>>> eventually), it might overshadow his New Voyages project which is
>>> set in the same approximate time frame. In which case he decided
>>> to find a different niche--the Phase II era (transitional between
>>> TOS and ST:TMP). That way his stories won't overlap Abrams'
>>> stories.
>>
>> If that's the case he might be jumping the gun.
>> Maybe after seeing the Abram movie(s) people will really start to
>> yearn for a more classic approach New Voyages and Exeter style (and
>> Farragut).
>
> The problem is, the Abrams movies aren't a "classic approach," insofar
> as the sets are concerned. The interior sets are being completely
> redone--they won't look like the TOS interiors at all. Only the
> exterior shape of the ship is roughly the same.
>
> It's hard to believe that these new audiences will want to go back to
> the plywood-and-plastic type sets of TOS, after they see the new sets.

Probably yeah...
But old timers like me...


--
www.woutervalentijn.net

www.nksf.scifics.com/nksfseries.html

liam=mail

Steven L. wrote:
> Wouter Valentijn wrote:
>> GeneK wrote:
>>> "Steven L." <sdlitvin@earthlink.net> wrote...
>>>> James Cawley has announced changes to his "Star Trek: New Voyages"
>>>> project:
>>>>
>>>> From now on, the project will be called "Star Trek: Phase II."
>>>> Cawley is going to start using concepts from the abortive Phase II
>>>> series that Roddenberry had proposed in the 1970s. Eventually he
>>>> will migrate toward the concepts of ST:TMP as well. The uniforms
>>>> worn by the cast will be those for Phase II and eventually for
>>>> ST:TMP. And he is adding the character of Xon, a Vulcan who
>>>> Roddenberry had proposed to replace Spock.
>>> I have a bad feeling about this...
>>>
>>
>> Yup.
>> Didn't they already flash forward to this sort of thing in their
>> first episode when they 'redid' movie scenes?
>
> I'm wondering if Cawley's decision had anything to do with the advent
> of the Trek XI movie, which he has gotten a look at when he got cast
> for it.
>
> Perhaps Cawley is worrying that if Paramount produces three movies
> that are set in the Pike-Kirk era (maybe even a TV series
> eventually), it might overshadow his New Voyages project which is set
> in the same approximate time frame. In which case he decided to find
> a different niche--the Phase II era (transitional between TOS and
> ST:TMP). That way his stories won't overlap Abrams' stories.

Part of it may be perhaps that this isn't a professional production with
professional goals and schedule. If you look at making a real series, the
aim is, after a pre-production period, to start a season, bang it out as
quickly as possible and within budget as possible, then get ready for the
next one; it's a rapid sausage factory. The aim is to get high ratings and
keep selling the show. For the individuals involved, the aim is to earn
their wages by performing a competent job.

None of that applies to a fan production. What are or were Cawley's aims?
Well, he wanted to play Captain Kirk in a Star Trek show. He's done that, as
much as possible. They apparently hoped early on that the series may
actually get picked up professionally by Paramount; that was never going to
happen and certainly isn't now. And he set out to make "the 4th (and even
possibly 5th) season". But they aren't shooting seasons, they're shooting
one at a time; compared to real TV painfully slowly. It's faster than
movies, but they're not getting movies at the end of it. Instead it's 6
months or a year for one TV "episode". That's a gruelling schedule and at
this rate by the end they'll be getting more "old men in space" jibes than
the real crew were. I think Cawley's looking down that long tunnel of hard
work and suddenly it doesn't look as appealing as it did. It's an immense
commitment of money and time and they've now hit a "more of the same" thing,
and with no real reward at the end of it.

It's a little like, somebody has an ambition to write a novel. So they spend
a year or maybe two writing their novel. They may have planned a trilogy, or
a series but, once they've written their novel, doing another is just more
of the same; they've accomplished their personal goal. If it got published,
if they've got a professional incentive, there's an incentive to write
sequels. If they're only writing for fun; well, they've achieved what
they've set out to do. More seem less appealing.

With World Enough And Time, Cawley has probably achieved as much as he ever
could. It's unlikely NV can do any better. So future episodes are just more
of the same without any greater bar to leap over. So now he's trying to
spice things up with a new challenge, and making "the series that never was"
probably seems like a step up as a goal. But I think that will quickly pall
for him too. Like I said, he's basically achieved all he set out to do. The
thing can't go any further. It's never going to be a professional show, he's
never going to get paid to be Captain Kirk, and I think he's at that stage
of trying to keep himself motivated but deep down inside the motivation is
ebbing away (as are his cast, notably).

I think the fanfilm thing has peaked and is going to fade away now. NV and
Exeter have done as much with it as can really be done. There's only so much
joy to be had from emulating something you can't by law ever truly own. The
Star Wreck (Pirkinning) team have for instance now jumped to the next stage
of making an effectively professional original movie (Iron Sky) and that's
real progress in their lives; if that comes out successfully it's their very
own thing that people will admire them for, which they can sell and make
careers out of. Cawley, for all his achievement, which we have to say is
immense, is stuck forever in a never-never land of imitation. He's
desperately trying to find ways to be more meaningful; and making the "the
series that never was" is an attempt to do that. But it still won't be
enough, if my understanding of human nature is correct :) Personal goals are
fine, but people need externalised goals too.


Ian

--
http://www.jaxtrawstudios.com
sci-fi comics with shagging in

GeneK wrote:
>
> "Snake" <fluidSPAMstates_no+spam@optonline.net> wrote
>> FINALLY, *someone* in Star Trek is taking a "leap of faith" and trying
>> something new. No more re-hashes of TOS, or even worse 'retro-TOS'
>> with prequels. Yes, yes, you probably remember that I am a
>> *tremendous* fan of TMP - because, to me, it feels more "futuristic"
>> in what the technology / look of things just might be in the bridge
>> between now and TNG.
>
> I'm not too terribly concerned about all that. The part that bothers me
> is where they said they're going to be using
> some of the proposed *stories* for Phase II. I've read
> the published descriptions of these stories, and most of
> them were either so typically "wtih it" 70's that they'll be like
> watching "Mod Squad in Space,"

Maybe they could do "Saturday Night Fever in Space."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfcwYWivb3w


--
Steven L.
Email: sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net
Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

GeneK wrote:
> "Snake" <fluidSPAMstates_no+spam@optonline.net> wrote
>> FINALLY, *someone* in Star Trek is taking a "leap of faith" and
>> trying something new. No more re-hashes of TOS, or even worse
>> 'retro-TOS' with prequels. Yes, yes, you probably remember that I
>> am a *tremendous* fan of TMP - because, to me, it feels more
>> "futuristic" in what the technology / look of things just might be
>> in the bridge between now and TNG.
>
> I'm not too terribly concerned about all that. The part that
> bothers me is where they said they're going to be using
> some of the proposed *stories* for Phase II. I've read
> the published descriptions of these stories, and most of
> them were either so typically "wtih it" 70's that they'll be
> like watching "Mod Squad in Space," or they eventually
> evolved into TNG episodes...which may have been worse
> than watching "Mod Squad in Space" would have been.
> If they want to pull inspiration from some of the art design
> for Phase II, fine, but leave the unfilmed stories in the
> oblivion most of them richly deserved.
>

It could be worse. They could be doing Roddenberry's infamous "Enterprise
goes back in time to save Jack Kennedy, and Spock ends up being the shooter
on the grassy knoll" story.


Ian

--
http://www.jaxtrawstudios.com
sci-fi comics with shagging in

Jaxtraw wrote:
> GeneK wrote:
>> "Snake" <fluidSPAMstates_no+spam@optonline.net> wrote

>
> It could be worse. They could be doing Roddenberry's infamous
> "Enterprise goes back in time to save Jack Kennedy, and Spock ends up
> being the shooter on the grassy knoll" story.
>

Say what?
That was an actual idea?
That doesn't make any sense at all!

However, I do remember a movie with a similar theme...
History professor goes back in time to prevent the JFK assassination, but
ends up making things worse.
And there was a Twilight Episode with Lane Smith about something like that,
but I don't remember that one all too well.


--
www.woutervalentijn.net

www.nksf.scifics.com/nksfseries.html

liam=mail

"Jaxtraw" <jax@knickersjaxtrawstudios.com> wrote in message
news:47bdcc9d$0$21089$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk...
> Part of it may be perhaps that this isn't a professional production with
> professional goals and schedule. If you look at making a real series, the
> aim is, after a pre-production period, to start a season, bang it out as
> quickly as possible and within budget as possible, then get ready for the
> next one; it's a rapid sausage factory. The aim is to get high ratings and
> keep selling the show. For the individuals involved, the aim is to earn
> their wages by performing a competent job.
>
> None of that applies to a fan production. What are or were Cawley's aims?
> Well, he wanted to play Captain Kirk in a Star Trek show. He's done that,
> as
> much as possible. They apparently hoped early on that the series may
> actually get picked up professionally by Paramount; that was never going
> to
> happen and certainly isn't now. And he set out to make "the 4th (and even
> possibly 5th) season". But they aren't shooting seasons, they're shooting
> one at a time; compared to real TV painfully slowly. It's faster than
> movies, but they're not getting movies at the end of it. Instead it's 6
> months or a year for one TV "episode". That's a gruelling schedule and at
> this rate by the end they'll be getting more "old men in space" jibes than
> the real crew were. I think Cawley's looking down that long tunnel of hard
> work and suddenly it doesn't look as appealing as it did. It's an immense
> commitment of money and time and they've now hit a "more of the same"
> thing,
> and with no real reward at the end of it.
>
> It's a little like, somebody has an ambition to write a novel. So they
> spend
> a year or maybe two writing their novel. They may have planned a trilogy,
> or
> a series but, once they've written their novel, doing another is just more
> of the same; they've accomplished their personal goal. If it got
> published,
> if they've got a professional incentive, there's an incentive to write
> sequels. If they're only writing for fun; well, they've achieved what
> they've set out to do. More seem less appealing.
>
> With World Enough And Time, Cawley has probably achieved as much as he
> ever
> could. It's unlikely NV can do any better. So future episodes are just
> more
> of the same without any greater bar to leap over. So now he's trying to
> spice things up with a new challenge, and making "the series that never
> was"
> probably seems like a step up as a goal. But I think that will quickly
> pall
> for him too. Like I said, he's basically achieved all he set out to do.
> The
> thing can't go any further. It's never going to be a professional show,
> he's
> never going to get paid to be Captain Kirk, and I think he's at that stage
> of trying to keep himself motivated but deep down inside the motivation is
> ebbing away (as are his cast, notably).
>
> I think the fanfilm thing has peaked and is going to fade away now. NV and
> Exeter have done as much with it as can really be done. There's only so
> much
> joy to be had from emulating something you can't by law ever truly own.
> The
> Star Wreck (Pirkinning) team have for instance now jumped to the next
> stage
> of making an effectively professional original movie (Iron Sky) and that's
> real progress in their lives; if that comes out successfully it's their
> very
> own thing that people will admire them for, which they can sell and make
> careers out of. Cawley, for all his achievement, which we have to say is
> immense, is stuck forever in a never-never land of imitation. He's
> desperately trying to find ways to be more meaningful; and making the "the
> series that never was" is an attempt to do that. But it still won't be
> enough, if my understanding of human nature is correct :) Personal goals
> are
> fine, but people need externalised goals too.

Exceedingly well explained. I, also, was in this position, taking up
micropublishing for a group of artists I was impressed with. After 8 years,
and [they] losing focus by not continuing to put out art on schedule as they
promised, I finally backed away.

When you take something up as a challenge, especially when you are not
making a single dime from it (losing large sums, actually), if the
satisfaction of attaining some form of goal disappears you simply burn out,
lose focus and want to move on.

Jaxtraw wrote:

> Part of it may be perhaps that this isn't a professional production with
> professional goals and schedule. If you look at making a real series, the
> aim is, after a pre-production period, to start a season, bang it out as
> quickly as possible and within budget as possible, then get ready for the
> next one; it's a rapid sausage factory. The aim is to get high ratings and
> keep selling the show. For the individuals involved, the aim is to earn
> their wages by performing a competent job.
>
> None of that applies to a fan production. What are or were Cawley's aims?
> Well, he wanted to play Captain Kirk in a Star Trek show. He's done that, as
> much as possible. They apparently hoped early on that the series may
> actually get picked up professionally by Paramount; that was never going to
> happen and certainly isn't now. And he set out to make "the 4th (and even
> possibly 5th) season". But they aren't shooting seasons, they're shooting
> one at a time; compared to real TV painfully slowly. It's faster than
> movies, but they're not getting movies at the end of it. Instead it's 6
> months or a year for one TV "episode". That's a gruelling schedule and at
> this rate by the end they'll be getting more "old men in space" jibes than
> the real crew were.

Perhaps Cawley is learning that he's not really cut out to be a TV
producer, and he needs to find a professional to help produce NV so he
can concentrate on improving his acting skills.

For TOS, Roddenberry had to find ways to cut costs *and* get things done
on schedule. (Even though there's usually a tradeoff; to accelerate a
schedule, it can cost you more.) Forty years later, Abrams had to do the
same thing with "Lost"--find ways to get a complex show under control.

TV production is as much an issue of sound business management--keeping
a tight ship and organizing a tight but flexible shooting schedule--as
it is of creative artistry. Maybe Cawley forgot the need for the grungy
management/organization side of the business when he started his NV
hobby. In which case he may need to bring in a professional manager to
manage the business side of the house. Like when Sculley was brought in
from Pepsi-Cola to take over Apple.

Of course, if he does that, he and the other "actors" on NV should be
prepared to put in longer acting schedules. It may mean giving up their
day jobs. (No joke; most of them do have day jobs.)


--
Steven L.
Email: sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net
Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

Wouter Valentijn wrote:

> And there was a Twilight Episode with Lane Smith about something like that,
> but I don't remember that one all too well.

There was a Twilight Zone episode that anticipated "Back to the Future":
This wealthy guy from some present-day upscale gentleman's club finds
himself back in time in 1865. He tries to warn a police officer of that
era that Lincoln is going to be assassinated. But the officer is unable
to get to Lincoln in time and Lincoln is assassinated anyway.

When the guy comes back to the present day, he finds a wealthy tycoon in
his gentleman's club that he remembered as having been the butler there
who used to serve the drinks! He learns that the tycoon is a direct
descendant of the cop he warned in 1865. The cop had at least tried to
prevent Lincoln's assassination, became famous, and got rich from the
publicity. And his descendants invested their dad's inheritance and got
fabulously rich from it.

The moral of the story is: Some aspects of history can be changed. But
not the most important ones.


--
Steven L.
Email: sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net
Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

"Steven L." <sdlitvin@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> Perhaps Cawley is learning that he's not really cut out to be a TV
> producer, and he needs to find a professional to help produce NV so he
> can concentrate on improving his acting skills.

I think it would be better all around if he did the opposite.
IMO, Cawley has managed to demonstrate that he has
the ability to turn out a professional *looking* production
with a team of amateurs, which is no small feat. If he
wants to go pro and isn't doing all this just so he can
"be" Captain Kirk, he should step behind the cameras,
devote himself to getting the production done in a more
timely manner and put real actors on the screen. It's
a lot easier to get better and faster at something you
can already do than to get good at something you're
barely adequate at in the first place, and the recent
influx of professional actors onto NV just makes the
shortcomings of the nonpros stick out that much more.

GeneK

Snake wrote:
> "Jaxtraw" <jax@knickersjaxtrawstudios.com> wrote in message
> news:47bdcc9d$0$21089$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk...
>> Part of it may be perhaps that this isn't a professional production

<snip>

> When you take something up as a challenge, especially when you are not
> making a single dime from it (losing large sums, actually), if the
> satisfaction of attaining some form of goal disappears you simply
> burn out, lose focus and want to move on.

I think you have to.
Otherwise you could become completely miserable.

--
www.woutervalentijn.net

www.nksf.scifics.com/nksfseries.html

liam=mail

Steven L. wrote:
> Wouter Valentijn wrote:
>
>> And there was a Twilight Episode with Lane Smith about something
>> like that, but I don't remember that one all too well.
>
> There was a Twilight Zone episode that anticipated "Back to the
> Future": This wealthy guy from some present-day upscale gentleman's
> club finds himself back in time in 1865. He tries to warn a police
> officer of that era that Lincoln is going to be assassinated. But
> the officer is unable to get to Lincoln in time and Lincoln is
> assassinated anyway.
> When the guy comes back to the present day, he finds a wealthy tycoon
> in his gentleman's club that he remembered as having been the butler
> there who used to serve the drinks! He learns that the tycoon is a
> direct descendant of the cop he warned in 1865. The cop had at least
> tried to prevent Lincoln's assassination, became famous, and got rich
> from the publicity. And his descendants invested their dad's
> inheritance and got fabulously rich from it.
>
> The moral of the story is: Some aspects of history can be changed. But
> not the most important ones.

Of course, on a technical level, if you change one sub atomic particle, you
already change history.

About that Smith episode.
Found it on IMDB:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0734727/


--
www.woutervalentijn.net

www.nksf.scifics.com/nksfseries.html

liam=mail

"Steven L." <sdlitvin@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:13rpiu7kid9ft94@corp.supernews.com...


>
> Perhaps Cawley is worrying that if Paramount produces three movies that
> are set in the Pike-Kirk era (maybe even a TV series eventually), it might
> overshadow his New Voyages project which is set in the same approximate
> time frame.

I have heard that there is a tax on TV sets to help pay for the BBC, etc.
Maybe Star Trek will be too expensive to watch

As far as free speech, I like the thought, BUT since the radio spectrum is
limited - there has to be some controls.


>In which case he decided to find a different niche--the Phase II era
>(transitional between TOS and ST:TMP).

But, unsure if that is true

>That way his stories won't overlap Abrams' stories.
>

Hey, the internet is FREE speech to everywhere!

mk5000

"I hope they solve this thin. I miss saying Dunder Mifflin this is
Pam"--Jenna Fischer

"Anim8rFSK" <ANIM8Rfsk@cox.net> wrote in message
news:ANIM8Rfsk-428BCE.07125921022008@news.phx.highwinds-media.com...
> In article <QE5vj.43980$ov5.21205@newsfe15.phx>,
> "GeneK" <gene@genek_hates_spammers.com> wrote:
>
>> they'll be
>> like watching "Mod Squad in Space,"
>
> Mmmm, Peggy Lipton dressed as Diana Ewing . . .
>
> --
> Star Trek 09:
>
> No Shat, No

Did you see her recently on "Rules of Enaement"

mk5000

"La la la la
Then you can't tell me nothing right?
Excuse me, was you saying something?
Uh, uh, you can't tell me nothing"--Kanye West