View Full Version : A Second Look: ATS S3D6


chrisg@removethistoreply.gwu.edu
02-21-2008, 11:20 PM
Arbitrar Of Quality <tsmtsm@wildmail.com> wrote:

> ANGEL
> Season Three, Episode 20: "A New World"
> Writer: Jeffrey Bell
> Director: Tim Minear

This is one of those episodes that feels exciting while it's playing, but
afterwards feels kind of slight, almost truncated. As OBS already pointed
out in his reply, not a whole lot of ground is covered beyond the
introduction of Connor and his less than loving attitude towards his
father. I think it's all done well, but there could have been more.
This isn't enough of a problem to keep me from enjoying the episode, just
enough to make me hesitate to call it Excellent.

But there are certainly good moments aplenty. The whole Lilah-Wesley
scene, for instance. I love Lilah's pleasure in her blatantly fake memory
lapse in the speech about traitors -- Oh, I always forget, what *was* his
name? -- and Wesley's guilty inability to cut her off. It's kind of neat
the way the Lilah-Wesley relationship straddles the end of S3 and
beginning of S4, when they'll continue to have wonderful little scenes
together isolated from the rest of the cast.

The actiony bits are good too, the first one in the teaser and beginning
of act 1 in particular. In the final fight scene, it's fun, in a slightly
cruel way to watch Connor slap that loathsome drug dealer upside his
mutilated head. And I really like Sunny. Her sad little voice as she
insists that no, she isn't sad, sticks with me. I wonder how Connor would
have developed if Angel had shown up just in time to get her to the
hospital? Or even if Angel's first reaction was to try to help her?
Instead, Angel's unsympathetic reaction to her death, furiously demanding
if she put any of that crap into Connor, is just about the worst it could
be for Connor at that moment. Well, it might not have mattered anyway.
Holtz's trick in the next episode might have been enough to turn Connor on
Angel no matter what.

> Rating: Good

I said Good last time. Watching it again for this thread, I enjoyed it as
much as an Excellent. But again, all the excitement doesn't advance the
main story very far, leaving me with a nagging feeling that there should
have been more. It's like one 42-minute-long first act. So I'm going to
leave it as a Good, though a high one.

> Season Three, Episode 21: "Benediction"
> Writer: Tim Minear
> Director: Tim Minear
..
> One of the first things I think about when calling this episode to
> memory is the sound-effect-enhanced vision and the cut to how everyone
> else sees Cordy. I don't know exactly why that bit tickles me so
> much, but there ya go.

It tickles me too. Perhaps it's related to how I'm always amused (even
when simultaneously irritated) by people with headphones on who talk too
loud, or who think they're silently mouthing the words when in fact the
whole office/subway car/national park can hear them muttering loudly
along.

I also share your love (or at least tickledness) for the whole scene in
the dance club, and the scene after it in the back alley. Their little
play sparring match might actually be the high point of the entire
Angel-Connor relationship, at least until NFA.

Holtz tells Connor he should spend time with Angel to learn "what of him
is in you." So how much of Angel *is* in Connor? They're both warriors
by nature, both have volcanic tempers and a talent for sneering, both are
molded by teachers other than their parents (Holtz, Darla), both go
through a period of hating their fathers.... What else?

Benediction also gets points from me for the return of Justine, one of my
absolute favorite recurring AtS characters; I wonder if she might show up
in S6? And of course more points for the dramatic ending. I'm a little
more dubious of the "soul colonic," though. To a first time viewer, it
might seem like the whole season is turning into a cheap trick to give
Angel a son, soap-operaify him into a teenager, then purge him of his bad
energy so he'll become a loyal Robin to Angel's Batman. *That* never
happened, of course, thank Joss; but I'm still not sure what good the
colonic did for the larger Angel-Connor story. Just a misdirect before
Holtz sends Connor over the edge, I guess. Did Lorne get Connor to sing
so he could evaluate the effects? Maybe we missed our chance to hear some
authentic Quor-tothian folk songs.

Cute detail: Cordy's comment on Fred's mystical geiger counter is ...
"Shiny!" Gorram amusing, that.

> Rating: Excellent

Excellent for me too. My favorite of this excellent trio of episodes.

> Season Three, Episode 22: "Tomorrow"
> Writer: David Greenwalt
> Director: David Greenwalt
..
> As mentioned, at this point many fans seem to
> have understood that not all was as it seemed, and that's just
> prominent enough to partially mitigate some of the cheesy excesses of
> that.

Forget the fans, Cordy herself should have realized something was up. She
never notices the incongruity of getting a vision about her own love life,
not even remotely connected with helping the helpless. I guess deep down
inside she's still self-centered old Queen C, sometimes at least.

On the other hand, Groo is remarkably mature and reasonable, for a
barbarian swordsman. Thin though the character is, I can't help but feel
for him in these three episodes.

> I still
> get a bit caught up in how incredibly cruel Connor is with his
> vengeance, and hearing Angel's proclamations of love as the lid closes
> on him definitely gets to me.

I really like the calm, level-headed attitude Connor adopts in that scene
(in contrast to the fury of their fight earlier). He doesn't even bother
with any dramatic final words before shoving Dad into the water. On a
similar note, I like Connor's part of the teaser, when he and Justine
reprise Holtz and Sahjhan's roles at the end of Lullaby.

> Rating: Excellent (up from Good)

Excellent for me too. Though I like the previous episode a bit more,
they're probably on the same level of quality.

> Additional comments on S3D6: Anyone note the "screen tests" among the
> DVD features? They're fun little bits with Acker and Kartheiser

Fred is always a delight, even in non-canonical scenes.

> the missteps early are missteps with a purpose in mind, and after
> "Loyalty," well, I've gushed before, but it'd be hard to exaggerate
> how much I love this period of the show. It feels the most _Angel_-
> like because the whole team, as Chris has pointed out, is in place:
> Fred has arrived, Cordy hasn't left (or turned amnesiac/possessed)
> yet, Lorne moves in, and teen-Connor drops in at the end of the year.
> When asked to name my favorite year of the series, there's not even a
> hesitation from me.

I'll add that it's the season of Holtz, my favorite AtS antagonist.
(Except sometimes it's Lilah, but she also figures prominently in S3.) I
can understand OBS's view that S2 is stronger because there's more focus
on Angel and his struggle for redemption, but S3 still feels more
satisfying to me overall. There's less focus on Angel's redemption, but a
stronger seasonal plot arc and better development for the other main
characters (except maybe Cordy). Maybe the difference is that S2 has more
of what makes Angel a great character, but S3 has more of what makes AtS a
great show.

In another post AOQ mentions the "Excellent Trilogy." In the
non-rating-system sense of the word "excellent," S3 actually features a
trio of excellent trilogies: Offspring-Quickening-Lullaby, Loyalty-Sleep
Tight-Forgiving, and ANW-Benediction-Tomorrow. It's not just great
television, it's also satisfying in its symmetry.


--Chris

__________________________________________________ ____________________
chrisg [at] gwu.edu On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog.

Arbitrar Of Quality
02-22-2008, 04:49 PM
On Feb 21, 10:20 pm, chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu wrote:
> Arbitrar Of Quality <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:

> I wonder how Connor would
> have developed if Angel had shown up just in time to get her to the
> hospital? Or even if Angel's first reaction was to try to help her?
> Instead, Angel's unsympathetic reaction to her death, furiously demanding
> if she put any of that crap into Connor, is just about the worst it could
> be for Connor at that moment. Well, it might not have mattered anyway.
> Holtz's trick in the next episode might have been enough to turn Connor on
> Angel no matter what.

I think in the long run it doesn't matter very much (and part of what
keeps ANW as merely interesting rather than momentous). Other than
the knee-jerk reaction to the drugs, Angel does his best to accept
Connor for whomever or whatever he's become. I figure "Benediction,"
with the two of them drifting together and Holtz's final vengeance,
would have played out pretty much the same way regardless of what
details about ANW you tweak.

> Benediction also gets points from me for the return of Justine, one of my
> absolute favorite recurring AtS characters; I wonder if she might show up
> in S6?

Her dialogue here gets me the closest to understanding why, after the
chances she's had and the things she's learned, she'd choose Holtz's
way. The two of them work well together for S3's purposes.

The ad at the back of the latest issue of ATF has a picture that
really looks like her - I think it's (supposed to be) Gwen, though.
I've always kind of imagined Angel running into her (at cross-
purposes, most likely) while she's playing some kind of morally
ambiguous game that involves killing things; she'd say something
ominous, he'd say her name in a surprised manner suggesting that he
hadn't thought about her nearly as often as vice versa, and then Spike
would say something like "am I supposed to know who this is?"

> And of course more points for the dramatic ending. I'm a little
> more dubious of the "soul colonic," though. To a first time viewer, it
> might seem like the whole season is turning into a cheap trick to give
> Angel a son, soap-operaify him into a teenager, then purge him of his bad
> energy so he'll become a loyal Robin to Angel's Batman. *That* never
> happened, of course, thank Joss; but I'm still not sure what good the
> colonic did for the larger Angel-Connor story. Just a misdirect before
> Holtz sends Connor over the edge, I guess.

Yeah, not thrilled with it either, but I think the point (besides
building intrigue and interest around Cordelia's powers blah blah
blah) is to deprive Connor of hell-seepage as any kind of excuse for
his action. A lot of the character's story is built around how he's
shaped by the past, but his choices are still his own.

> > As mentioned, at this point many fans seem to
> > have understood that not all was as it seemed, and that's just
> > prominent enough to partially mitigate some of the cheesy excesses of
> > that.
>
> Forget the fans, Cordy herself should have realized something was up. She
> never notices the incongruity of getting a vision about her own love life,
> not even remotely connected with helping the helpless. I guess deep down
> inside she's still self-centered old Queen C, sometimes at least.

Oh, I've always felt that Cordy had a sense of her own importance that
wasn't really reflective of reality, no matter how heroic she got.
Some of that came out last run-through from discussions with people
like Mel who disliked the character during her alleged sainthood,
leading me to argue that the show never forgets about her flaws.

> Excellent for me too. Though I like the previous episode a bit more,
> they're probably on the same level of quality.

I think I like "Benediction" more because it's better. No knock on
"Tomorrow," but...

> In another post AOQ mentions the "Excellent Trilogy." In the
> non-rating-system sense of the word "excellent," S3 actually features a
> trio of excellent trilogies: Offspring-Quickening-Lullaby, Loyalty-Sleep
> Tight-Forgiving, and ANW-Benediction-Tomorrow. It's not just great
> television, it's also satisfying in its symmetry.

I'm not so keen on "Offspring." It's setup without momentum. The
others are true high-quality trilogies. "Quickening" and "Lullaby"
are quite nice too, and if one wanted to instead pair them with "Dad,"
they'd be a trilogy in the same form as L-ST-F: rising action, climax,
consequences. The problem of course being that "Dad" is even less
solid than "Offspring." So, uh, just claim whatever symmetry you
want.

-AOQ

One Bit Shy
02-22-2008, 05:46 PM
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsmtsm@wildmail.com> wrote in message
news:95a09bc4-6669-4033-99dc-b1f07c5b8784@34g2000hsz.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 21, 10:20 pm, chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu wrote:
>> Arbitrar Of Quality <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:

>> And of course more points for the dramatic ending. I'm a little
>> more dubious of the "soul colonic," though. To a first time viewer, it
>> might seem like the whole season is turning into a cheap trick to give
>> Angel a son, soap-operaify him into a teenager, then purge him of his bad
>> energy so he'll become a loyal Robin to Angel's Batman. *That* never
>> happened, of course, thank Joss; but I'm still not sure what good the
>> colonic did for the larger Angel-Connor story. Just a misdirect before
>> Holtz sends Connor over the edge, I guess.
>
> Yeah, not thrilled with it either, but I think the point (besides
> building intrigue and interest around Cordelia's powers blah blah
> blah) is to deprive Connor of hell-seepage as any kind of excuse for
> his action. A lot of the character's story is built around how he's
> shaped by the past, but his choices are still his own.

Couple of things about that. If you think Jasmine is already manipulating
things, then whatever it was she did, it wasn't curing Connor of anything.
Probably mostly meant to deceive Cordelia and anybody watching.

That aside, it's a very odd scene for me. I know that Lorne and Cordy took
it as a fairly big deal - the soul colonic. But the way it played to me was
very temporary - certainly no release from the effects of the hell
dimension - and very directed towards Cordelia. Mostly it was some kind of
automatic defense mechanism in Cordy - which is how we'd seen the white glow
before. The effect on Connor struck me immediately as being overwhelmed by
Cordelia herself. I get a little confused by how Cordy and Lorne take it,
but I guess it's a misdirect since I see no evidence of any change in
attitude towards Angel. Nor do I think there's really any change towards
Lorne either - other than dialing back the visible rage.

I'm not sure why the scene is there. Maybe for the misdirect. Maybe an
early setup to allow possessed Cordy to entrap him so easily next season.
Or maybe it's a more general character moment that allows Connor to
independently receive a dose of pure love from an unexpected source -
unfettered by the great daddy duel. The kind of thing that that reveals a
little about him and feeds his doubts about the world view given him, but
for the long term much more than this episode's conflict.

OBS

One Bit Shy
02-22-2008, 06:15 PM
<chrisg@removethistoreply.gwu.edu> wrote in message
news:13rsjc0jbmiii3a@corp.supernews.com...
>
> Arbitrar Of Quality <tsmtsm@wildmail.com> wrote:
>
>> ANGEL
>> Season Three, Episode 20: "A New World"

> This is one of those episodes that feels exciting while it's playing, but
> afterwards feels kind of slight, almost truncated. As OBS already pointed
> out in his reply, not a whole lot of ground is covered beyond the
> introduction of Connor and his less than loving attitude towards his
> father. I think it's all done well, but there could have been more.
> This isn't enough of a problem to keep me from enjoying the episode, just
> enough to make me hesitate to call it Excellent.

I may get to Excellent yet. I've been thinking about this more and I'm
beginning to think that it's a good idea not to burden the episode with too
much meaningful plot. The unstated implications (which don't need to be
stated) of who he is, where he came from, the age change, who raised him,
and so on are pretty massive. I think the episode as written gives the
audience helpful space to absorb all of that and think about it. Then the
conclusion with Holtz caps it with the message that his game is afoot again.


> But there are certainly good moments aplenty. The whole Lilah-Wesley
> scene, for instance. I love Lilah's pleasure in her blatantly fake memory
> lapse in the speech about traitors -- Oh, I always forget, what *was* his
> name? -- and Wesley's guilty inability to cut her off. It's kind of neat
> the way the Lilah-Wesley relationship straddles the end of S3 and
> beginning of S4, when they'll continue to have wonderful little scenes
> together isolated from the rest of the cast.

Lilah's play on Wesley is one of my favorite things in the series. She's so
on top of her game. Wesley also has some of his best moments - one of the
curious side effects of Lilah's seduction is that it serves to steel Wesley
and make him more formidable than ever. But for now anyway, Lilah is always
one step ahead of him. Always delivering the crushing blow. And delighting
in it.

The only thing I miss is that for a little while here she seems to lose her
connection with fear - the way she seems to feed off of her own inner
quaking is something I love about the character. But she'll get that back
soon enough.


> The actiony bits are good too, the first one in the teaser and beginning
> of act 1 in particular. In the final fight scene, it's fun, in a slightly
> cruel way to watch Connor slap that loathsome drug dealer upside his
> mutilated head. And I really like Sunny. Her sad little voice as she
> insists that no, she isn't sad, sticks with me. I wonder how Connor would
> have developed if Angel had shown up just in time to get her to the
> hospital? Or even if Angel's first reaction was to try to help her?
> Instead, Angel's unsympathetic reaction to her death, furiously demanding
> if she put any of that crap into Connor, is just about the worst it could
> be for Connor at that moment.

By description alone, all of the drug stuff is terribly cliche. Yet,
somehow they managed to make it feel fresh. Maybe it's the way we see it
through Connor's eyes. I don't know. Whatever it is, it works. And, yes,
Sunny is a wonderful, albeit tragic, character.


> I'll add that it's the season of Holtz, my favorite AtS antagonist.
> (Except sometimes it's Lilah, but she also figures prominently in S3.) I
> can understand OBS's view that S2 is stronger because there's more focus
> on Angel and his struggle for redemption, but S3 still feels more
> satisfying to me overall. There's less focus on Angel's redemption, but a
> stronger seasonal plot arc and better development for the other main
> characters (except maybe Cordy). Maybe the difference is that S2 has more
> of what makes Angel a great character, but S3 has more of what makes AtS a
> great show.

To be clear, I think that S2 and S3 are equivalent in quality. Just with
different attributes.

OBS

Mel
02-23-2008, 12:13 PM
chrisg@removethistoreply.gwu.edu wrote:

>
> Benediction also gets points from me for the return of Justine, one of my
> absolute favorite recurring AtS characters; I wonder if she might show up
> in S6? And of course more points for the dramatic ending. I'm a little
> more dubious of the "soul colonic," though. To a first time viewer, it
> might seem like the whole season is turning into a cheap trick to give
> Angel a son, soap-operaify him into a teenager, then purge him of his bad
> energy so he'll become a loyal Robin to Angel's Batman. *That* never
> happened, of course, thank Joss; but I'm still not sure what good the
> colonic did for the larger Angel-Connor story. Just a misdirect before
> Holtz sends Connor over the edge, I guess. Did Lorne get Connor to sing
> so he could evaluate the effects? Maybe we missed our chance to hear some
> authentic Quor-tothian folk songs.
>
>

After seeing S4, the 'colonic' seems to be a method by which
Cordy-Jasmine started her brainwashing of Connor. It made him trust her,
to the point of not trusting anyone else.


Mel