I was trying to count for myself how many immortals exist in the
Heroes universe? We have Kensei and Claire. As far as I can tell,
Peter too. But we've also been told that Peter's not the only
'empath' out there. Is there any evidence that those other empaths
ever met Kensei? I haven't followed all the comics, either. Are
there any others shown in the comics?

In article
<28fcfd34-7552-4f88-96b1-69f78755daca@13g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
Pythor <pythor@gmail.com> wrote:

> I was trying to count for myself how many immortals exist in the
> Heroes universe? We have Kensei and Claire. As far as I can tell,
> Peter too. But we've also been told that Peter's not the only
> 'empath' out there. Is there any evidence that those other empaths
> ever met Kensei? I haven't followed all the comics, either. Are
> there any others shown in the comics?

No others in the comics that I can recall.

--
Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP.

Pythor wrote:
> I was trying to count for myself how many immortals exist in the
> Heroes universe? We have Kensei and Claire. As far as I can tell,
> Peter too.

Pretty accurate. It is not entirely clear if Peter will actually be
immortal, but that is the going assumption.


> But we've also been told that Peter's not the only
> 'empath' out there. Is there any evidence that those other empaths
> ever met Kensei? I haven't followed all the comics, either. Are
> there any others shown in the comics?

Claude suggested that there were other empaths, but none other than
Peter have ever been introduced (I haven't yet read the last couple of
GNs, though).

In one of the GNs, set about 100 years after the events in Japan, Kensei
said that he had not encountered another mutant (he could have
unknowingly, though). In that GN, he was a mercenary working for the
British during the American Revolution, and was assigned to sack a port
city. During the battle, he encountered a mutant with the power of
multiplicity (cloning). The two chased each other for quite some time.
In their final battle, the cloner stated that he was trying to teach
Kensei that he needed other people - and that gave Kensei the idea of
finding disciples, an idea which, apparently, led to the eventual
formation of The Company.

--
JWH

"Pythor" <pythor@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:28fcfd34-7552-4f88-96b1-69f78755daca@13g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>I was trying to count for myself how many immortals exist in the
> Heroes universe? We have Kensei and Claire. As far as I can tell,
> Peter too. But we've also been told that Peter's not the only
> 'empath' out there. Is there any evidence that those other empaths
> ever met Kensei? I haven't followed all the comics, either. Are
> there any others shown in the comics?

How do we know Claire is immortal?

Mark

In article <47e524c8$0$30681$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
"Mark R Rose" <mrosendorf@nyc.rr.com> wrote:

> How do we know Claire is immortal?

Because her power/ability is the same as Adam's, and he is immortal.

--
Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP.

"Michelle Steiner" <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in message
news:michelle-C26248.10070422032008@news.west.cox.net...
> In article <47e524c8$0$30681$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
> "Mark R Rose" <mrosendorf@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> How do we know Claire is immortal?
>
> Because her power/ability is the same as Adam's, and he is immortal.
>
>

We know she can heal just like Adam, but how do we know her power is the
same as Adam's and thus immortal?

I don't believe we do.

Mark

In article <47e598bb$0$17354$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
"Mark R Rose" <mrosendorf@nyc.rr.com> wrote:

> > Because her power/ability is the same as Adam's, and he is
> > immortal.
>
> We know she can heal just like Adam, but how do we know her power is
> the same as Adam's and thus immortal?

I believe that the show established that Adam is immortal because of his
healing power. Further, the incident with the wood in her head (because
of the rapist) plus Peter's incident with the glass shard indicate
they're both immortal.

--
Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP.

Michelle Steiner wrote:
> I believe that the show established that Adam is immortal because of his
> healing power. Further, the incident with the wood in her head (because
> of the rapist) plus Peter's incident with the glass shard indicate
> they're both immortal.

that works right up to the point of DL's fist into the back of
Linderman's head...

-r (finally got the season 1 dvd set, sat through them all last weekend.. :)

In article <47e5a9ab$0$24090$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
No Body <no@body.com> wrote:

> > I believe that the show established that Adam is immortal because
> > of his healing power. Further, the incident with the wood in her
> > head (because of the rapist) plus Peter's incident with the glass
> > shard indicate they're both immortal.
>
> that works right up to the point of DL's fist into the back of
> Linderman's head...

But Linderman wasn't immortal, nor did he have the same healing power
that Adam, Claire, and Peter have. He could heal others, but it was
never shown that he could heal himself.

--
Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP.

"Pythor" <pythor@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:28fcfd34-7552-4f88-96b1-69f78755daca@13g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>I was trying to count for myself how many immortals exist in the
> Heroes universe? We have Kensei and Claire. As far as I can tell,
> Peter too. But we've also been told that Peter's not the only
> 'empath' out there. Is there any evidence that those other empaths
> ever met Kensei? I haven't followed all the comics, either. Are
> there any others shown in the comics?

There can be only one!

In article <michelle-42B35F.20432122032008@news.west.cox.net>,
Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:

> In article <47e5a9ab$0$24090$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
> No Body <no@body.com> wrote:
>
> > > I believe that the show established that Adam is immortal because
> > > of his healing power. Further, the incident with the wood in her
> > > head (because of the rapist) plus Peter's incident with the glass
> > > shard indicate they're both immortal.
> >
> > that works right up to the point of DL's fist into the back of
> > Linderman's head...
>
> But Linderman wasn't immortal, nor did he have the same healing power
> that Adam, Claire, and Peter have. He could heal others, but it was
> never shown that he could heal himself.

I haven't seen any evidence (one way or the other) that decapitation
would not be an effective method of termination. And Michelle's
examples show that they can heal (and apparently show no outer signs of
aging). I've seen no evidence of anyone bringing themselves back to
life from complete death. Each of the examples above are of individuals
who are "mostly" dead. In the cases of Adam and Peter I don't recall
them being examined by a physician. And while Claire was being looked
at by a medical examiner or coroner or ..., it wasn't clear what they
did to determine that she was dead. My assumption was simply breath and
pulse rather than more sophisticated tests.

dick

In article <DrJamesSidbury-C36EF9.14114523032008@individual.net>,
Dick Sidbury <DrJamesSidbury@hotmail.com> wrote:

> And while Claire was being looked at by a medical examiner or coroner
> or ..., it wasn't clear what they did to determine that she was dead.
> My assumption was simply breath and pulse rather than more
> sophisticated tests.

Don't forget that in Claire's case, they had her cut open and peeled
apart from clavicle to navel. I would think that they would use more
sophisticated techniques than just breath and pulse before performing an
autopsy.

--
Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP.

"No Body" <no@body.com> wrote in message
news:47e5a9ab$0$24090$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> Michelle Steiner wrote:
>> I believe that the show established that Adam is immortal because of his
>> healing power. Further, the incident with the wood in her head (because
>> of the rapist) plus Peter's incident with the glass shard indicate
>> they're both immortal.
>
> that works right up to the point of DL's fist into the back of Linderman's
> head...
>
Linderman didn't heal himself.

"Dick Sidbury" <DrJamesSidbury@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:DrJamesSidbury-C36EF9.14114523032008@individual.net...
> In article <michelle-42B35F.20432122032008@news.west.cox.net>,
> Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
>
>> In article <47e5a9ab$0$24090$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
>> No Body <no@body.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > I believe that the show established that Adam is immortal because
>> > > of his healing power. Further, the incident with the wood in her
>> > > head (because of the rapist) plus Peter's incident with the glass
>> > > shard indicate they're both immortal.
>> >
>> > that works right up to the point of DL's fist into the back of
>> > Linderman's head...
>>
>> But Linderman wasn't immortal, nor did he have the same healing power
>> that Adam, Claire, and Peter have. He could heal others, but it was
>> never shown that he could heal himself.
>
> I haven't seen any evidence (one way or the other) that decapitation
> would not be an effective method of termination. And Michelle's
> examples show that they can heal (and apparently show no outer signs of
> aging). I've seen no evidence of anyone bringing themselves back to
> life from complete death. Each of the examples above are of individuals
> who are "mostly" dead. In the cases of Adam and Peter I don't recall
> them being examined by a physician. And while Claire was being looked
> at by a medical examiner or coroner or ..., it wasn't clear what they
> did to determine that she was dead. My assumption was simply breath and
> pulse rather than more sophisticated tests.
>
Um...they were performing an autopsy on Clair. Her chest was cut open.
Chances are they had removed organs. I fail to see how that could be
considered "mostly dead", unless you want to present metaphysical arguments
about the soul.

"Dick Sidbury" <DrJamesSidbury@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:DrJamesSidbury-C36EF9.14114523032008@individual.net...
> In article <michelle-42B35F.20432122032008@news.west.cox.net>,
> Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
>
>> In article <47e5a9ab$0$24090$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
>> No Body <no@body.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > I believe that the show established that Adam is immortal because
>> > > of his healing power. Further, the incident with the wood in her
>> > > head (because of the rapist) plus Peter's incident with the glass
>> > > shard indicate they're both immortal.
>> >
>> > that works right up to the point of DL's fist into the back of
>> > Linderman's head...
>>
>> But Linderman wasn't immortal, nor did he have the same healing power
>> that Adam, Claire, and Peter have. He could heal others, but it was
>> never shown that he could heal himself.
>
> I haven't seen any evidence (one way or the other) that decapitation
> would not be an effective method of termination. And Michelle's
> examples show that they can heal (and apparently show no outer signs of
> aging). I've seen no evidence of anyone bringing themselves back to
> life from complete death. Each of the examples above are of individuals
> who are "mostly" dead. In the cases of Adam and Peter I don't recall
> them being examined by a physician. And while Claire was being looked
> at by a medical examiner or coroner or ..., it wasn't clear what they
> did to determine that she was dead. My assumption was simply breath and
> pulse rather than more sophisticated tests.
>
Um...they were performing an autopsy on Clair. Her chest was cut open.
Chances are they had removed organs. I fail to see how that could be
considered "mostly dead", unless you want to present metaphysical arguments
about the soul.

"Dick Sidbury" <DrJamesSidbury@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:DrJamesSidbury-C36EF9.14114523032008@individual.net...
> In article <michelle-42B35F.20432122032008@news.west.cox.net>,
> Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
>
>> In article <47e5a9ab$0$24090$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
>> No Body <no@body.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > I believe that the show established that Adam is immortal because
>> > > of his healing power. Further, the incident with the wood in her
>> > > head (because of the rapist) plus Peter's incident with the glass
>> > > shard indicate they're both immortal.
>> >
>> > that works right up to the point of DL's fist into the back of
>> > Linderman's head...
>>
>> But Linderman wasn't immortal, nor did he have the same healing power
>> that Adam, Claire, and Peter have. He could heal others, but it was
>> never shown that he could heal himself.
>
> I haven't seen any evidence (one way or the other) that decapitation
> would not be an effective method of termination. And Michelle's
> examples show that they can heal (and apparently show no outer signs of
> aging). I've seen no evidence of anyone bringing themselves back to
> life from complete death. Each of the examples above are of individuals
> who are "mostly" dead. In the cases of Adam and Peter I don't recall
> them being examined by a physician. And while Claire was being looked
> at by a medical examiner or coroner or ..., it wasn't clear what they
> did to determine that she was dead. My assumption was simply breath and
> pulse rather than more sophisticated tests.
>
Um...they were performing an autopsy on Clair. Her chest was cut open.
Chances are they had removed organs. I fail to see how that could be
considered "mostly dead", unless you want to present metaphysical arguments
about the soul.

Ok, I have no idea why this posted three times.

"Dragonlady" <dragonladynospam@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:fs8n0u$ulj$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>
> "Dick Sidbury" <DrJamesSidbury@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:DrJamesSidbury-C36EF9.14114523032008@individual.net...
>> In article <michelle-42B35F.20432122032008@news.west.cox.net>,
>> Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <47e5a9ab$0$24090$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
>>> No Body <no@body.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > > I believe that the show established that Adam is immortal because
>>> > > of his healing power. Further, the incident with the wood in her
>>> > > head (because of the rapist) plus Peter's incident with the glass
>>> > > shard indicate they're both immortal.
>>> >
>>> > that works right up to the point of DL's fist into the back of
>>> > Linderman's head...
>>>
>>> But Linderman wasn't immortal, nor did he have the same healing power
>>> that Adam, Claire, and Peter have. He could heal others, but it was
>>> never shown that he could heal himself.
>>
>> I haven't seen any evidence (one way or the other) that decapitation
>> would not be an effective method of termination. And Michelle's
>> examples show that they can heal (and apparently show no outer signs of
>> aging). I've seen no evidence of anyone bringing themselves back to
>> life from complete death. Each of the examples above are of individuals
>> who are "mostly" dead. In the cases of Adam and Peter I don't recall
>> them being examined by a physician. And while Claire was being looked
>> at by a medical examiner or coroner or ..., it wasn't clear what they
>> did to determine that she was dead. My assumption was simply breath and
>> pulse rather than more sophisticated tests.
>>
> Um...they were performing an autopsy on Clair. Her chest was cut open.
> Chances are they had removed organs. I fail to see how that could be
> considered "mostly dead", unless you want to present metaphysical
> arguments about the soul.
>
>
>

In article <fs8ord$9j2$1@registered.motzarella.org>,
"Dragonlady" <dragonladynospam@cableone.net> wrote:

> "Dick Sidbury" <DrJamesSidbury@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:DrJamesSidbury-C36EF9.14114523032008@individual.net...
> > In article <michelle-42B35F.20432122032008@news.west.cox.net>,
> > Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
> >
> >> In article <47e5a9ab$0$24090$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
> >> No Body <no@body.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > > I believe that the show established that Adam is immortal because
> >> > > of his healing power. Further, the incident with the wood in her
> >> > > head (because of the rapist) plus Peter's incident with the glass
> >> > > shard indicate they're both immortal.
> >> >
> >> > that works right up to the point of DL's fist into the back of
> >> > Linderman's head...
> >>
> >> But Linderman wasn't immortal, nor did he have the same healing power
> >> that Adam, Claire, and Peter have. He could heal others, but it was
> >> never shown that he could heal himself.
> >
> > I haven't seen any evidence (one way or the other) that decapitation
> > would not be an effective method of termination. And Michelle's
> > examples show that they can heal (and apparently show no outer signs of
> > aging). I've seen no evidence of anyone bringing themselves back to
> > life from complete death. Each of the examples above are of individuals
> > who are "mostly" dead. In the cases of Adam and Peter I don't recall
> > them being examined by a physician. And while Claire was being looked
> > at by a medical examiner or coroner or ..., it wasn't clear what they
> > did to determine that she was dead. My assumption was simply breath and
> > pulse rather than more sophisticated tests.
> >
> Um...they were performing an autopsy on Clair. Her chest was cut open.
> Chances are they had removed organs. I fail to see how that could be
> considered "mostly dead", unless you want to present metaphysical arguments
> about the soul.

How about metaphysical arguments about brain waves?

Serious question. If one finds the cold body of a teenager who's not
breathing and has no pulse on the side of the road, do coroners, medical
examiners, etc. actually perform sophisticated tests to see if there's
life present? I just assumed that they didn't, particularly in small
town Texas.

dick

In article <fs9031$isc$1@registered.motzarella.org>,
"Dragonlady" <dragonladynospam@cableone.net> wrote:

> Ok, I have no idea why this posted three times.

Because this is usenet, and you didn't sacrifice a chicken.

--
Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP.

"Dick Sidbury" <DrJamesSidbury@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:DrJamesSidbury-C36EF9.14114523032008@individual.net...
> In article <michelle-42B35F.20432122032008@news.west.cox.net>,
> Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
>
>> In article <47e5a9ab$0$24090$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
>> No Body <no@body.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > I believe that the show established that Adam is immortal because
>> > > of his healing power. Further, the incident with the wood in her
>> > > head (because of the rapist) plus Peter's incident with the glass
>> > > shard indicate they're both immortal.
>> >
>> > that works right up to the point of DL's fist into the back of
>> > Linderman's head...
>>
>> But Linderman wasn't immortal, nor did he have the same healing power
>> that Adam, Claire, and Peter have. He could heal others, but it was
>> never shown that he could heal himself.
>
> I haven't seen any evidence (one way or the other) that decapitation
> would not be an effective method of termination.

Just the comment from Adam, that there was no coming back from decapitation.
Which implies he had seen someone with his kind of powers deadified.

Serious question, how closely have you been watching?

In article <f7CdnWP_MO1-r3XanZ2dnUVZ_uGknZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Julio Laredo" <jrlaredo621@comcast.net> wrote:

> "Dick Sidbury" <DrJamesSidbury@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:DrJamesSidbury-C36EF9.14114523032008@individual.net...
> > In article <michelle-42B35F.20432122032008@news.west.cox.net>,
> > Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
> >
> >> In article <47e5a9ab$0$24090$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
> >> No Body <no@body.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > > I believe that the show established that Adam is immortal because
> >> > > of his healing power. Further, the incident with the wood in her
> >> > > head (because of the rapist) plus Peter's incident with the glass
> >> > > shard indicate they're both immortal.
> >> >
> >> > that works right up to the point of DL's fist into the back of
> >> > Linderman's head...
> >>
> >> But Linderman wasn't immortal, nor did he have the same healing power
> >> that Adam, Claire, and Peter have. He could heal others, but it was
> >> never shown that he could heal himself.
> >
> > I haven't seen any evidence (one way or the other) that decapitation
> > would not be an effective method of termination.
>
> Just the comment from Adam, that there was no coming back from decapitation.
> Which implies he had seen someone with his kind of powers deadified.
>
> Serious question, how closely have you been watching?

pretty close. I tivo'ed the original episodes because I had a class on
monday nights and watched them once or twice before the next week. And
I have the DVDs. OTOH, I'm old enough to have a bad memory. :)

dick

On Mar 24, 7:02 pm, "Julio Laredo" <jrlaredo...@comcast.net> wrote:>
> Just the comment from Adam, that there was no coming back from decapitation.
> Which implies he had seen someone with his kind of powers deadified.

When did he say that? It certainly doesn't jive well with the
company's decision to keep him a prisoner for decades. Didn't he say
at some point that they had tried everything to kill him? Or is my
memory really that bad?

Dick Sidbury wrote:
>>
>> How about metaphysical arguments about brain waves?

Brain is dead but it's mostly electrical and essentially it can be
brought back to life.

>> Serious question. If one finds the cold body of a teenager who's not
>> breathing and has no pulse on the side of the road, do coroners,
>> medical examiners, etc. actually perform sophisticated tests to see
>> if there's life present? I just assumed that they didn't,
>> particularly in small town Texas.

Do you work in the medical field?? Don't get confused on what is done
in practice and what is theory. Case in point:

http://www.nbc11.com/msnbcentertainment1/15692881/detail.html

On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:32:17 -0700 (PDT), Pythor <pythor@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Mar 24, 7:02 pm, "Julio Laredo" <jrlaredo...@comcast.net> wrote:>
>> Just the comment from Adam, that there was no coming back from decapitation.
>> Which implies he had seen someone with his kind of powers deadified.
>
>When did he say that? It certainly doesn't jive well with the
>company's decision to keep him a prisoner for decades.

In Truth And Consequences, when they went to visit the woman who had
developed the virus. Adam said he killed her because she was going to cut
Peter's head off and there was no coming back from decapitation.

>Didn't he say
>at some point that they had tried everything to kill him? Or is my
>memory really that bad?

In Four Months Ago, Adam told Peter that the company kept him prisoner
because they couldn't find a way to kill him.("If it was possible to kill
me, they would have, I assure you.")

Yes, those statements are contradictory. Keep in mind that both of them
were made by Adam to Peter, for the purpose of manipulating him. Simplest
explanation for the discrepency: Adam lied, quite possibly both times (when
he told Peter that there was no coming back from decapitation, he was
trying to justify killing Victoria Pratt to Peter).


--
"Oh Buffy, you really do need to have
every square inch of your *** kicked."
- Willow Rosenberg

"William George Ferguson" <wmgfrgsn@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:et2ju3luqm5imv4npe9macim3gsoc36d0s@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:32:17 -0700 (PDT), Pythor <pythor@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Mar 24, 7:02 pm, "Julio Laredo" <jrlaredo...@comcast.net> wrote:>
>>> Just the comment from Adam, that there was no coming back from
>>> decapitation.
>>> Which implies he had seen someone with his kind of powers deadified.
>>
>>When did he say that? It certainly doesn't jive well with the
>>company's decision to keep him a prisoner for decades.
>
> In Truth And Consequences, when they went to visit the woman who had
> developed the virus. Adam said he killed her because she was going to cut
> Peter's head off and there was no coming back from decapitation.
>
>>Didn't he say
>>at some point that they had tried everything to kill him? Or is my
>>memory really that bad?
>
> In Four Months Ago, Adam told Peter that the company kept him prisoner
> because they couldn't find a way to kill him.("If it was possible to kill
> me, they would have, I assure you.")
>
> Yes, those statements are contradictory. Keep in mind that both of them
> were made by Adam to Peter, for the purpose of manipulating him. Simplest
> explanation for the discrepency: Adam lied, quite possibly both times
> (when
> he told Peter that there was no coming back from decapitation, he was
> trying to justify killing Victoria Pratt to Peter).

I like that.

"Dick Sidbury" <DrJamesSidbury@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:DrJamesSidbury-1048F4.16290024032008@individual.net...
> In article <fs8ord$9j2$1@registered.motzarella.org>,
> "Dragonlady" <dragonladynospam@cableone.net> wrote:
>
>> "Dick Sidbury" <DrJamesSidbury@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:DrJamesSidbury-C36EF9.14114523032008@individual.net...
>> > In article <michelle-42B35F.20432122032008@news.west.cox.net>,
>> > Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
>> >
>> >> In article <47e5a9ab$0$24090$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
>> >> No Body <no@body.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > > I believe that the show established that Adam is immortal because
>> >> > > of his healing power. Further, the incident with the wood in her
>> >> > > head (because of the rapist) plus Peter's incident with the glass
>> >> > > shard indicate they're both immortal.
>> >> >
>> >> > that works right up to the point of DL's fist into the back of
>> >> > Linderman's head...
>> >>
>> >> But Linderman wasn't immortal, nor did he have the same healing power
>> >> that Adam, Claire, and Peter have. He could heal others, but it was
>> >> never shown that he could heal himself.
>> >
>> > I haven't seen any evidence (one way or the other) that decapitation
>> > would not be an effective method of termination. And Michelle's
>> > examples show that they can heal (and apparently show no outer signs of
>> > aging). I've seen no evidence of anyone bringing themselves back to
>> > life from complete death. Each of the examples above are of
>> > individuals
>> > who are "mostly" dead. In the cases of Adam and Peter I don't recall
>> > them being examined by a physician. And while Claire was being looked
>> > at by a medical examiner or coroner or ..., it wasn't clear what they
>> > did to determine that she was dead. My assumption was simply breath
>> > and
>> > pulse rather than more sophisticated tests.
>> >
>> Um...they were performing an autopsy on Clair. Her chest was cut open.
>> Chances are they had removed organs. I fail to see how that could be
>> considered "mostly dead", unless you want to present metaphysical
>> arguments
>> about the soul.
>
> How about metaphysical arguments about brain waves?
>
> Serious question. If one finds the cold body of a teenager who's not
> breathing and has no pulse on the side of the road, do coroners, medical
> examiners, etc. actually perform sophisticated tests to see if there's
> life present? I just assumed that they didn't, particularly in small
> town Texas.

I don't really know, but I can tell you that if they've cut the body open,
it's dead, whether it was before or not.

"Michelle Steiner" <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in message
news:michelle-5D46F5.15515224032008@news.west.cox.net...
> In article <fs9031$isc$1@registered.motzarella.org>,
> "Dragonlady" <dragonladynospam@cableone.net> wrote:
>
>> Ok, I have no idea why this posted three times.
>
> Because this is usenet, and you didn't sacrifice a chicken.

But they are so messy! All that blood and feathers....

In article <fscebr$415$1@registered.motzarella.org>,
"Dragonlady" <dragonladynospam@cableone.net> wrote:

> >> Ok, I have no idea why this posted three times.
> >
> > Because this is usenet, and you didn't sacrifice a chicken.
>
> But they are so messy! All that blood and feathers....

That's the reason it's called "sacrifice".

--
Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP.

On Mar 25, 7:45 pm, William George Ferguson <wmgfr...@newsguy.com>
wrote:
>
> In Truth And Consequences, when they went to visit the woman who had
> developed the virus.  Adam said he killed her because she was going to cut
> Peter's head off and there was no coming back from decapitation.
>

OK... I hadn't remembered this part. I did remember the line in Four
Months Ago, though. So Adam was lying, at least one of those time,
and we still don't know if he's really immortal or not. Given the
reaction of HRG's body to the blood, and Claire's body to the removal
of the stick, I'm going to consider it immortal.

Lee

On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 08:04:45 -0700 (PDT), Pythor <pythor@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Mar 25, 7:45 pm, William George Ferguson <wmgfr...@newsguy.com>
>wrote:
>>
>> In Truth And Consequences, when they went to visit the woman who had
>> developed the virus.  Adam said he killed her because she was going to cut
>> Peter's head off and there was no coming back from decapitation.
>>
>
>OK... I hadn't remembered this part. I did remember the line in Four
>Months Ago, though. So Adam was lying, at least one of those time,
>and we still don't know if he's really immortal or not. Given the
>reaction of HRG's body to the blood, and Claire's body to the removal
>of the stick, I'm going to consider it immortal.
>
>Lee

I consider him being over 400 years old (without any evidence of aging) to
be even stronger evidence.


--
"Oh Buffy, you really do need to have
every square inch of your *** kicked."
- Willow Rosenberg

In article <fscear$403$1@registered.motzarella.org>,
"Dragonlady" <dragonladynospam@cableone.net> wrote:

> "Dick Sidbury" <DrJamesSidbury@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:DrJamesSidbury-1048F4.16290024032008@individual.net...
> > In article <fs8ord$9j2$1@registered.motzarella.org>,
> > "Dragonlady" <dragonladynospam@cableone.net> wrote:
> >
> >> "Dick Sidbury" <DrJamesSidbury@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >> news:DrJamesSidbury-C36EF9.14114523032008@individual.net...
> >> > In article <michelle-42B35F.20432122032008@news.west.cox.net>,
> >> > Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> In article <47e5a9ab$0$24090$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
> >> >> No Body <no@body.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > > I believe that the show established that Adam is immortal because
> >> >> > > of his healing power. Further, the incident with the wood in her
> >> >> > > head (because of the rapist) plus Peter's incident with the glass
> >> >> > > shard indicate they're both immortal.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > that works right up to the point of DL's fist into the back of
> >> >> > Linderman's head...
> >> >>
> >> >> But Linderman wasn't immortal, nor did he have the same healing power
> >> >> that Adam, Claire, and Peter have. He could heal others, but it was
> >> >> never shown that he could heal himself.
> >> >
> >> > I haven't seen any evidence (one way or the other) that decapitation
> >> > would not be an effective method of termination. And Michelle's
> >> > examples show that they can heal (and apparently show no outer signs of
> >> > aging). I've seen no evidence of anyone bringing themselves back to
> >> > life from complete death. Each of the examples above are of
> >> > individuals
> >> > who are "mostly" dead. In the cases of Adam and Peter I don't recall
> >> > them being examined by a physician. And while Claire was being looked
> >> > at by a medical examiner or coroner or ..., it wasn't clear what they
> >> > did to determine that she was dead. My assumption was simply breath
> >> > and
> >> > pulse rather than more sophisticated tests.
> >> >
> >> Um...they were performing an autopsy on Clair. Her chest was cut open.
> >> Chances are they had removed organs. I fail to see how that could be
> >> considered "mostly dead", unless you want to present metaphysical
> >> arguments
> >> about the soul.
> >
> > How about metaphysical arguments about brain waves?
> >
> > Serious question. If one finds the cold body of a teenager who's not
> > breathing and has no pulse on the side of the road, do coroners, medical
> > examiners, etc. actually perform sophisticated tests to see if there's
> > life present? I just assumed that they didn't, particularly in small
> > town Texas.
>
> I don't really know, but I can tell you that if they've cut the body open,
> it's dead, whether it was before or not.

I guess open heart surgery is a losing proposition.

dick

"Michelle Steiner" <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in message
news:michelle-9303FF.22003225032008@news.west.cox.net...
> In article <fscebr$415$1@registered.motzarella.org>,
> "Dragonlady" <dragonladynospam@cableone.net> wrote:
>
>> >> Ok, I have no idea why this posted three times.
>> >
>> > Because this is usenet, and you didn't sacrifice a chicken.
>>
>> But they are so messy! All that blood and feathers....
>
> That's the reason it's called "sacrifice".

I must have been forgiven, it hasn't happened again.

"Dick Sidbury" <DrJamesSidbury@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:DrJamesSidbury-6C4656.00050827032008@individual.net...
> In article <fscear$403$1@registered.motzarella.org>,
> "Dragonlady" <dragonladynospam@cableone.net> wrote:
>
>> "Dick Sidbury" <DrJamesSidbury@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:DrJamesSidbury-1048F4.16290024032008@individual.net...
>> > In article <fs8ord$9j2$1@registered.motzarella.org>,
>> > "Dragonlady" <dragonladynospam@cableone.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Dick Sidbury" <DrJamesSidbury@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> >> news:DrJamesSidbury-C36EF9.14114523032008@individual.net...
>> >> > In article <michelle-42B35F.20432122032008@news.west.cox.net>,
>> >> > Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> In article <47e5a9ab$0$24090$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
>> >> >> No Body <no@body.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > > I believe that the show established that Adam is immortal
>> >> >> > > because
>> >> >> > > of his healing power. Further, the incident with the wood in
>> >> >> > > her
>> >> >> > > head (because of the rapist) plus Peter's incident with the
>> >> >> > > glass
>> >> >> > > shard indicate they're both immortal.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > that works right up to the point of DL's fist into the back of
>> >> >> > Linderman's head...
>> >> >>
>> >> >> But Linderman wasn't immortal, nor did he have the same healing
>> >> >> power
>> >> >> that Adam, Claire, and Peter have. He could heal others, but it
>> >> >> was
>> >> >> never shown that he could heal himself.
>> >> >
>> >> > I haven't seen any evidence (one way or the other) that decapitation
>> >> > would not be an effective method of termination. And Michelle's
>> >> > examples show that they can heal (and apparently show no outer signs
>> >> > of
>> >> > aging). I've seen no evidence of anyone bringing themselves back to
>> >> > life from complete death. Each of the examples above are of
>> >> > individuals
>> >> > who are "mostly" dead. In the cases of Adam and Peter I don't
>> >> > recall
>> >> > them being examined by a physician. And while Claire was being
>> >> > looked
>> >> > at by a medical examiner or coroner or ..., it wasn't clear what
>> >> > they
>> >> > did to determine that she was dead. My assumption was simply breath
>> >> > and
>> >> > pulse rather than more sophisticated tests.
>> >> >
>> >> Um...they were performing an autopsy on Clair. Her chest was cut
>> >> open.
>> >> Chances are they had removed organs. I fail to see how that could be
>> >> considered "mostly dead", unless you want to present metaphysical
>> >> arguments
>> >> about the soul.
>> >
>> > How about metaphysical arguments about brain waves?
>> >
>> > Serious question. If one finds the cold body of a teenager who's not
>> > breathing and has no pulse on the side of the road, do coroners,
>> > medical
>> > examiners, etc. actually perform sophisticated tests to see if there's
>> > life present? I just assumed that they didn't, particularly in small
>> > town Texas.
>>
>> I don't really know, but I can tell you that if they've cut the body
>> open,
>> it's dead, whether it was before or not.
>
> I guess open heart surgery is a losing proposition.

It was an autopsy, not open heart surgery.