It's kind of a surprise to find the original Vulcan still referred to
as "Dr. Spock" in the mundanemedia (see today's issue of The City, a
fine free daily paper of San Fran) all these decades later.

Still, can one not assume that such a title must have some truth?
Surely he has earned more than one PhD in his career, after leaving
Kirk's command.

> It's kind of a surprise to find the original Vulcan still referred to
> as "Dr. Spock" in the mundanemedia (see today's issue of The City, a
> fine free daily paper of San Fran) all these decades later.
>
> Still, can one not assume that such a title must have some truth?
> Surely he has earned more than one PhD in his career, after leaving
> Kirk's command.


No doubt one in pediatrics.

-Al-

Given that there were other non-medical doctors mentioned in the
series -- Dr. Daystrom comes to mind -- we can use that as evidence
that Spock did not have a doctorate.

On the other hand, we never encounter any Vulcan with an academic
title. Perhaps they have a cultural inhibition to their use. We did
encounter other non-human doctors, so it would have to be a Vulcan
thing.


On Mar 25, 2:43 pm, Al Smith <inva...@address.com> wrote:
> > It's kind of a surprise to find the original Vulcan still referred to
> > as "Dr. Spock" in the mundanemedia (see today's issue of The City, a
> > fine free daily paper of San Fran) all these decades later.
>
> > Still, can one not assume that such a title must have some truth?
> > Surely he has earned more than one PhD in his career, after leaving
> > Kirk's command.
>
> No doubt one in pediatrics.
>
> -Al-

Bones wrote:
> Given that there were other non-medical doctors mentioned in the
> series -- Dr. Daystrom comes to mind -- we can use that as evidence
> that Spock did not have a doctorate.
>

No, you can use that as evidence that Spock was a Starfleet officer who
is normally addressed by his rank. Dr. Daystrom was a civilian and
calling him "doctor" is the norm.

I don't know if Commander Spock had a doctorate at that time of the
series, but your "evidence" is less than useful.

> Bones wrote:
>> Given that there were other non-medical doctors mentioned in the
>> series -- Dr. Daystrom comes to mind -- we can use that as evidence
>> that Spock did not have a doctorate.
>>
>
> No, you can use that as evidence that Spock was a Starfleet officer who is normally addressed by his rank. Dr. Daystrom was a civilian and calling him "doctor" is the norm.
>
> I don't know if Commander Spock had a doctorate at that time of the series, but your "evidence" is less than useful.


Realistically, Spock must have acquired academic degrees. I mean,
the man is a walking science library. He probably has a string of
degrees as long as a Rigelian Bloodworm.

-Al-

Al Smith wrote:
>> Bones wrote:
>>> Given that there were other non-medical doctors mentioned in the
>>> series -- Dr. Daystrom comes to mind -- we can use that as evidence
>>> that Spock did not have a doctorate.
>>>
>>
>> No, you can use that as evidence that Spock was a Starfleet officer
>> who is normally addressed by his rank. Dr. Daystrom was a civilian
>> and calling him "doctor" is the norm. I don't know if Commander Spock
>> had a doctorate at that time of the
>> series, but your "evidence" is less than useful.
>
>
> Realistically, Spock must have acquired academic degrees. I mean,
> the man is a walking science library. He probably has a string of
> degrees as long as a Rigelian Bloodworm.

Why?

Just because he's studied a subject, it doesn't mean he's sat an exam and
earned a piece of paper saying "This is to certify that Mr Spock is awfully
clever".
Lots of people study things without ever taking an exam or test at the end
of it all..
These are people who love to learn...They crave knowledge...For them, the
thrill of becoming more intelligent is reward enough.

He might have jut studied a subject and satisfied himself with the fact that
he fully understood it.

Perhaps Vulcans don't believe in formal qualifications....
Perhaps the rest of the galaxy don't see the need for Vulcans to hold formal
qualifications...After all, Spock himself and several other Vulcans are
heard to say "Vulcans are incapable of lying", so it might be taken as read
that if a Vulcan tells you he's an expert in molecular biology, he's telling
the truth....Perhaps a Vulcans word is regarded as more reliable than a
piece of paper which anyone could produce on a 24th century inkjet printer.

On Mar 25, 5:25 pm, Ragnar <rwor...@comsouth.net> wrote:
> Bones wrote:
> > Given that there were other non-medical doctors mentioned in the
> > series -- Dr. Daystrom comes to mind -- we can use that as evidence
> > that Spock did not have a doctorate.
>
> No, you can use that as evidence that Spock was a Starfleet officer who
> is normally addressed by his rank. Dr. Daystrom was a civilian and
> calling him "doctor" is the norm.
>
> I don't know if Commander Spock had a doctorate at that time of the
> series, but your "evidence" is less than useful.

I thought about this possibility, since what you describe is the norm
in the current military. However, we did see a number of characters in
StarFleet uniform also being addressed by the title "Doctor." Not all
were physicians, who really are only doctors by courtesy not by
academic achievement -- but that's a rant for another time and
discussion board.

> Al Smith wrote:
>>> >> Bones wrote:
>>>> >>> Given that there were other non-medical doctors mentioned in the
>>>> >>> series -- Dr. Daystrom comes to mind -- we can use that as evidence
>>>> >>> that Spock did not have a doctorate.
>>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >> No, you can use that as evidence that Spock was a Starfleet officer
>>> >> who is normally addressed by his rank. Dr. Daystrom was a civilian
>>> >> and calling him "doctor" is the norm. I don't know if Commander Spock
>>> >> had a doctorate at that time of the
>>> >> series, but your "evidence" is less than useful.
>> >
>> >
>> > Realistically, Spock must have acquired academic degrees. I mean,
>> > the man is a walking science library. He probably has a string of
>> > degrees as long as a Rigelian Bloodworm.
>
> Why?
>
> Just because he's studied a subject, it doesn't mean he's sat an exam and
> earned a piece of paper saying "This is to certify that Mr Spock is awfully
> clever".
> Lots of people study things without ever taking an exam or test at the end
> of it all..
> These are people who love to learn...They crave knowledge...For them, the
> thrill of becoming more intelligent is reward enough.
>
> He might have jut studied a subject and satisfied himself with the fact that
> he fully understood it.
>
> Perhaps Vulcans don't believe in formal qualifications....
> Perhaps the rest of the galaxy don't see the need for Vulcans to hold formal
> qualifications...After all, Spock himself and several other Vulcans are
> heard to say "Vulcans are incapable of lying", so it might be taken as read
> that if a Vulcan tells you he's an expert in molecular biology, he's telling
> the truth....Perhaps a Vulcans word is regarded as more reliable than a
> piece of paper which anyone could produce on a 24th century inkjet printer.
>
>

Are you kidding. Spock? The original Mr. Pointy Head? Spock couldn't
help accumulating degrees if his life depended on it. I bet he's got
PhDs in half a dozen areas of science and probably a few for
literature and philosophy as well.

-Al-

Al Smith wrote:
>> Al Smith wrote:
>>>>>> Bones wrote:
>>>>>>>> Given that there were other non-medical doctors mentioned in
>>>>>>>> the series -- Dr. Daystrom comes to mind -- we can use that as
>>>>>>>> evidence that Spock did not have a doctorate.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, you can use that as evidence that Spock was a Starfleet
>>>>>> officer who is normally addressed by his rank. Dr. Daystrom was
>>>>>> a civilian and calling him "doctor" is the norm. I don't know
>>>>>> if Commander Spock had a doctorate at that time of the
>>>>>> series, but your "evidence" is less than useful.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Realistically, Spock must have acquired academic degrees. I mean,
>>>> the man is a walking science library. He probably has a string of
>>>> degrees as long as a Rigelian Bloodworm.
>>
>> Why?
>>
>> Just because he's studied a subject, it doesn't mean he's sat an
>> exam and earned a piece of paper saying "This is to certify that Mr
>> Spock is awfully clever".
>> Lots of people study things without ever taking an exam or test at
>> the end of it all..
>> These are people who love to learn...They crave knowledge...For
>> them, the thrill of becoming more intelligent is reward enough.
>>
>> He might have jut studied a subject and satisfied himself with the
>> fact that he fully understood it.
>>
>> Perhaps Vulcans don't believe in formal qualifications....
>> Perhaps the rest of the galaxy don't see the need for Vulcans to
>> hold formal qualifications...After all, Spock himself and several
>> other Vulcans are heard to say "Vulcans are incapable of lying", so
>> it might be taken as read that if a Vulcan tells you he's an expert
>> in molecular biology, he's telling the truth....Perhaps a Vulcans
>> word is regarded as more reliable than a piece of paper which anyone
>> could produce on a 24th century inkjet printer.
>
> Are you kidding. Spock? The original Mr. Pointy Head? Spock couldn't
> help accumulating degrees if his life depended on it. I bet he's got
> PhDs in half a dozen areas of science and probably a few for
> literature and philosophy as well.

Well, as no-one ever mentioned his formal qualifications in the show or the
films, I'd be inclined to say that the weight of evidence is against you.

(not quite so) Fat Sam wrote:
> Al Smith wrote:
> >> Al Smith wrote:
> >>>>>> Bones wrote:
> >>>>>>>> Given that there were other non-medical doctors mentioned in
> >>>>>>>> the series -- Dr. Daystrom comes to mind -- we can use that as
> >>>>>>>> evidence that Spock did not have a doctorate.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> No, you can use that as evidence that Spock was a Starfleet
> >>>>>> officer who is normally addressed by his rank. Dr. Daystrom was
> >>>>>> a civilian and calling him "doctor" is the norm. I don't know
> >>>>>> if Commander Spock had a doctorate at that time of the
> >>>>>> series, but your "evidence" is less than useful.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Realistically, Spock must have acquired academic degrees. I mean,
> >>>> the man is a walking science library. He probably has a string of
> >>>> degrees as long as a Rigelian Bloodworm.
> >>
> >> Why?
> >>
> >> Just because he's studied a subject, it doesn't mean he's sat an
> >> exam and earned a piece of paper saying "This is to certify that Mr
> >> Spock is awfully clever".
> >> Lots of people study things without ever taking an exam or test at
> >> the end of it all..
> >> These are people who love to learn...They crave knowledge...For
> >> them, the thrill of becoming more intelligent is reward enough.
> >>
> >> He might have jut studied a subject and satisfied himself with the
> >> fact that he fully understood it.
> >>
> >> Perhaps Vulcans don't believe in formal qualifications....
> >> Perhaps the rest of the galaxy don't see the need for Vulcans to
> >> hold formal qualifications...After all, Spock himself and several
> >> other Vulcans are heard to say "Vulcans are incapable of lying", so
> >> it might be taken as read that if a Vulcan tells you he's an expert
> >> in molecular biology, he's telling the truth....Perhaps a Vulcans
> >> word is regarded as more reliable than a piece of paper which anyone
> >> could produce on a 24th century inkjet printer.
> >
> > Are you kidding. Spock? The original Mr. Pointy Head? Spock couldn't
> > help accumulating degrees if his life depended on it. I bet he's got
> > PhDs in half a dozen areas of science and probably a few for
> > literature and philosophy as well.
>
> Well, as no-one ever mentioned his formal qualifications in the show or the
> films, I'd be inclined to say that the weight of evidence is against you.

It's possible, even if tradition forbade him accepting one, that some
institution may have awarded him an honorary doctorate.

> Al Smith wrote:
>>> >> Al Smith wrote:
>>>>>>> >>>>>> Bones wrote:
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Given that there were other non-medical doctors mentioned in
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> the series -- Dr. Daystrom comes to mind -- we can use that as
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> evidence that Spock did not have a doctorate.
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>>> No, you can use that as evidence that Spock was a Starfleet
>>>>>>> >>>>>> officer who is normally addressed by his rank. Dr. Daystrom was
>>>>>>> >>>>>> a civilian and calling him "doctor" is the norm. I don't know
>>>>>>> >>>>>> if Commander Spock had a doctorate at that time of the
>>>>>>> >>>>>> series, but your "evidence" is less than useful.
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> Realistically, Spock must have acquired academic degrees. I mean,
>>>>> >>>> the man is a walking science library. He probably has a string of
>>>>> >>>> degrees as long as a Rigelian Bloodworm.
>>> >>
>>> >> Why?
>>> >>
>>> >> Just because he's studied a subject, it doesn't mean he's sat an
>>> >> exam and earned a piece of paper saying "This is to certify that Mr
>>> >> Spock is awfully clever".
>>> >> Lots of people study things without ever taking an exam or test at
>>> >> the end of it all..
>>> >> These are people who love to learn...They crave knowledge...For
>>> >> them, the thrill of becoming more intelligent is reward enough.
>>> >>
>>> >> He might have jut studied a subject and satisfied himself with the
>>> >> fact that he fully understood it.
>>> >>
>>> >> Perhaps Vulcans don't believe in formal qualifications....
>>> >> Perhaps the rest of the galaxy don't see the need for Vulcans to
>>> >> hold formal qualifications...After all, Spock himself and several
>>> >> other Vulcans are heard to say "Vulcans are incapable of lying", so
>>> >> it might be taken as read that if a Vulcan tells you he's an expert
>>> >> in molecular biology, he's telling the truth....Perhaps a Vulcans
>>> >> word is regarded as more reliable than a piece of paper which anyone
>>> >> could produce on a 24th century inkjet printer.
>> >
>> > Are you kidding. Spock? The original Mr. Pointy Head? Spock couldn't
>> > help accumulating degrees if his life depended on it. I bet he's got
>> > PhDs in half a dozen areas of science and probably a few for
>> > literature and philosophy as well.
>
> Well, as no-one ever mentioned his formal qualifications in the show or the
> films, I'd be inclined to say that the weight of evidence is against you.
>
>

Aww, what do they know. I've been watching "Star Trek" since I was
10 years old. Spock is just too bookish and studious not to have
acquired higher academic credentials somewhere. I assume they are
not mentioned because they don't have a relevancy to his job as
science officer.

-Al-

Al Smith <invalid@address.com> wrote in news:C8zGj.313$pb5.18@edtnps89:

>> Al Smith wrote:
>>>> >> Al Smith wrote:
>>>>>>>> >>>>>> Bones wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Given that there were other non-medical doctors
>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> mentioned in the series -- Dr. Daystrom comes to
>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> mind -- we can use that as evidence that Spock did
>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> not have a doctorate.
>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>> No, you can use that as evidence that Spock was a
>>>>>>>> >>>>>> Starfleet officer who is normally addressed by his rank.
>>>>>>>> >>>>>> Dr. Daystrom was a civilian and calling him "doctor" is
>>>>>>>> >>>>>> the norm. I don't know if Commander Spock had a
>>>>>>>> >>>>>> doctorate at that time of the series, but your
>>>>>>>> >>>>>> "evidence" is less than useful.
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> Realistically, Spock must have acquired academic degrees. I
>>>>>> >>>> mean, the man is a walking science library. He probably has
>>>>>> >>>> a string of degrees as long as a Rigelian Bloodworm.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Why?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Just because he's studied a subject, it doesn't mean he's sat an
>>>> >> exam and earned a piece of paper saying "This is to certify that
>>>> >> Mr Spock is awfully clever".
>>>> >> Lots of people study things without ever taking an exam or test
>>>> >> at the end of it all..
>>>> >> These are people who love to learn...They crave knowledge...For
>>>> >> them, the thrill of becoming more intelligent is reward enough.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> He might have jut studied a subject and satisfied himself with
>>>> >> the fact that he fully understood it.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Perhaps Vulcans don't believe in formal qualifications....
>>>> >> Perhaps the rest of the galaxy don't see the need for Vulcans to
>>>> >> hold formal qualifications...After all, Spock himself and
>>>> >> several other Vulcans are heard to say "Vulcans are incapable of
>>>> >> lying", so it might be taken as read that if a Vulcan tells you
>>>> >> he's an expert in molecular biology, he's telling the
>>>> >> truth....Perhaps a Vulcans word is regarded as more reliable
>>>> >> than a piece of paper which anyone could produce on a 24th
>>>> >> century inkjet printer.
>>> >
>>> > Are you kidding. Spock? The original Mr. Pointy Head? Spock
>>> > couldn't help accumulating degrees if his life depended on it. I
>>> > bet he's got PhDs in half a dozen areas of science and probably a
>>> > few for literature and philosophy as well.
>>
>> Well, as no-one ever mentioned his formal qualifications in the show
>> or the films, I'd be inclined to say that the weight of evidence is
>> against you.
>>
>>
>
> Aww, what do they know. I've been watching "Star Trek" since I was
> 10 years old. Spock is just too bookish and studious not to have
> acquired higher academic credentials somewhere. I assume they are
> not mentioned because they don't have a relevancy to his job as
> science officer.
>
> -Al-
>

or relevancy to the plot of the episode.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

> Al Smith <invalid@address.com> wrote in news:C8zGj.313$pb5.18@edtnps89:
>
>>> >> Al Smith wrote:
>>>>>>> >>>> >> Al Smith wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> Bones wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Given that there were other non-medical doctors
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> mentioned in the series -- Dr. Daystrom comes to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> mind -- we can use that as evidence that Spock did
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> not have a doctorate.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> No, you can use that as evidence that Spock was a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> Starfleet officer who is normally addressed by his rank.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> Dr. Daystrom was a civilian and calling him "doctor" is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> the norm. I don't know if Commander Spock had a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> doctorate at that time of the series, but your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> "evidence" is less than useful.
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> Realistically, Spock must have acquired academic degrees. I
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> mean, the man is a walking science library. He probably has
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> a string of degrees as long as a Rigelian Bloodworm.
>>>>>>> >>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>>> >> Why?
>>>>>>> >>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>>> >> Just because he's studied a subject, it doesn't mean he's sat an
>>>>>>> >>>> >> exam and earned a piece of paper saying "This is to certify that
>>>>>>> >>>> >> Mr Spock is awfully clever".
>>>>>>> >>>> >> Lots of people study things without ever taking an exam or test
>>>>>>> >>>> >> at the end of it all..
>>>>>>> >>>> >> These are people who love to learn...They crave knowledge...For
>>>>>>> >>>> >> them, the thrill of becoming more intelligent is reward enough.
>>>>>>> >>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>>> >> He might have jut studied a subject and satisfied himself with
>>>>>>> >>>> >> the fact that he fully understood it.
>>>>>>> >>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>>> >> Perhaps Vulcans don't believe in formal qualifications....
>>>>>>> >>>> >> Perhaps the rest of the galaxy don't see the need for Vulcans to
>>>>>>> >>>> >> hold formal qualifications...After all, Spock himself and
>>>>>>> >>>> >> several other Vulcans are heard to say "Vulcans are incapable of
>>>>>>> >>>> >> lying", so it might be taken as read that if a Vulcan tells you
>>>>>>> >>>> >> he's an expert in molecular biology, he's telling the
>>>>>>> >>>> >> truth....Perhaps a Vulcans word is regarded as more reliable
>>>>>>> >>>> >> than a piece of paper which anyone could produce on a 24th
>>>>>>> >>>> >> century inkjet printer.
>>>>> >>> >
>>>>> >>> > Are you kidding. Spock? The original Mr. Pointy Head? Spock
>>>>> >>> > couldn't help accumulating degrees if his life depended on it. I
>>>>> >>> > bet he's got PhDs in half a dozen areas of science and probably a
>>>>> >>> > few for literature and philosophy as well.
>>> >>
>>> >> Well, as no-one ever mentioned his formal qualifications in the show
>>> >> or the films, I'd be inclined to say that the weight of evidence is
>>> >> against you.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>> >
>> > Aww, what do they know. I've been watching "Star Trek" since I was
>> > 10 years old. Spock is just too bookish and studious not to have
>> > acquired higher academic credentials somewhere. I assume they are
>> > not mentioned because they don't have a relevancy to his job as
>> > science officer.
>> >
>> > -Al-
>> >
>
> or relevancy to the plot of the episode.


Yes, Spock's degrees wouldn't be relevant to most episodes. They
were probably not a part of the original "bible" of Star Trek, and
so the writers of the episodes never referred to them. The writers
are constrained by the bible -- they can't just add character
aspects at will to series' characters. They have to stick to the
bible, unless they get special permission to expand it.

But just because no degrees are mentioned in the Trek episodes
doesn't mean Spock has no degrees. A Vulcan of his love for
knowledge and his wide travels and experience would almost
inevitably accumulate academic credentials, particularly early in
life, and in his later years, when he was not so occupied with the
daily affairs of being an officer on a starship.

We know Spock went back to Vulcan to study the way of
emotionlessness between the end of the Original Series and the first
movie. It is not unlikely that he studied academically as well. I
wonder if it's ever been laid out how much schooling he had before
he enrolled in Star Fleet Academy?

-Al-

Al Smith wrote:
>> Al Smith wrote:
>>>>>> Al Smith wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bones wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Given that there were other non-medical doctors
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mentioned in the series -- Dr. Daystrom comes to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mind -- we can use that as evidence that Spock did
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not have a doctorate.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, you can use that as evidence that Spock was a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Starfleet officer who is normally addressed by his rank.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dr. Daystrom was a civilian and calling him "doctor" is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the norm. I don't know if Commander Spock had a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doctorate at that time of the series, but your "evidence" is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> less than useful.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Realistically, Spock must have acquired academic degrees. I
>>>>>>>>>> mean, the man is a walking science library. He probably has
>>>>>>>>>> a string of degrees as long as a Rigelian Bloodworm.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just because he's studied a subject, it doesn't mean he's sat an
>>>>>> exam and earned a piece of paper saying "This is to certify that
>>>>>> Mr Spock is awfully clever".
>>>>>> Lots of people study things without ever taking an exam or test
>>>>>> at the end of it all..
>>>>>> These are people who love to learn...They crave knowledge...For
>>>>>> them, the thrill of becoming more intelligent is reward enough.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He might have jut studied a subject and satisfied himself with
>>>>>> the fact that he fully understood it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Perhaps Vulcans don't believe in formal qualifications....
>>>>>> Perhaps the rest of the galaxy don't see the need for Vulcans to
>>>>>> hold formal qualifications...After all, Spock himself and several
>>>>>> other Vulcans are heard to say "Vulcans are incapable of lying",
>>>>>> so it might be taken as read that if a Vulcan tells you he's an
>>>>>> expert in molecular biology, he's telling the truth....Perhaps a
>>>>>> Vulcans word is regarded as more reliable than a piece of paper
>>>>>> which anyone could produce on a 24th century inkjet printer.
>>>>
>>>> Are you kidding. Spock? The original Mr. Pointy Head? Spock
>>>> couldn't help accumulating degrees if his life depended on it. I
>>>> bet he's got PhDs in half a dozen areas of science and probably a
>>>> few for literature and philosophy as well.
>>
>> Well, as no-one ever mentioned his formal qualifications in the show
>> or the films, I'd be inclined to say that the weight of evidence is
>> against you.
>
> Aww, what do they know. I've been watching "Star Trek" since I was
> 10 years old.

:-)

> Spock is just too bookish and studious not to have
> acquired higher academic credentials somewhere. I assume they are
> not mentioned because they don't have a relevancy to his job as
> science officer.

It's entirely plausible...
And it has a grounding in logic too...

On Mar 27, 6:38 am, Al Smith <inva...@address.com> wrote:
> > Al Smith <inva...@address.com> wrote innews:C8zGj.313$pb5.18@edtnps89:
>
> >>> >> Al Smith wrote:
> >>>>>>> >>>> >> Al Smith wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> Bones wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Given that there were other non-medical doctors
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> mentioned in the series -- Dr. Daystrom comes to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> mind -- we can use that as evidence that Spock did
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> not have a doctorate.
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> No, you can use that as evidence that Spock was a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> Starfleet officer who is normally addressed by his rank.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> Dr. Daystrom was a civilian and calling him "doctor" is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> the norm. I don't know if Commander Spock had a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> doctorate at that time of the series, but your
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> "evidence" is less than useful.
>
> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> Realistically, Spock must have acquired academic degrees. I
> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> mean, the man is a walking science library. He probably has
> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> a string of degrees as long as a Rigelian Bloodworm.
>
> >>>>>>> >>>> >> Why?
>
> >>>>>>> >>>> >> Just because he's studied a subject, it doesn't mean he's sat an
> >>>>>>> >>>> >> exam and earned a piece of paper saying "This is to certify that
> >>>>>>> >>>> >> Mr Spock is awfully clever".
> >>>>>>> >>>> >> Lots of people study things without ever taking an exam or test
> >>>>>>> >>>> >> at the end of it all..
> >>>>>>> >>>> >> These are people who love to learn...They crave knowledge...For
> >>>>>>> >>>> >> them, the thrill of becoming more intelligent is reward enough.
>
> >>>>>>> >>>> >> He might have jut studied a subject and satisfied himself with
> >>>>>>> >>>> >> the fact that he fully understood it.
>
> >>>>>>> >>>> >> Perhaps Vulcans don't believe in formal qualifications....
> >>>>>>> >>>> >> Perhaps the rest of the galaxy don't see the need for Vulcans to
> >>>>>>> >>>> >> hold formal qualifications...After all, Spock himself and
> >>>>>>> >>>> >> several other Vulcans are heard to say "Vulcans are incapable of
> >>>>>>> >>>> >> lying", so it might be taken as read that if a Vulcan tells you
> >>>>>>> >>>> >> he's an expert in molecular biology, he's telling the
> >>>>>>> >>>> >> truth....Perhaps a Vulcans word is regarded as more reliable
> >>>>>>> >>>> >> than a piece of paper which anyone could produce on a 24th
> >>>>>>> >>>> >> century inkjet printer.
>
> >>>>> >>> > Are you kidding. Spock? The original Mr. Pointy Head? Spock
> >>>>> >>> > couldn't help accumulating degrees if his life depended on it. I
> >>>>> >>> > bet he's got PhDs in half a dozen areas of science and probably a
> >>>>> >>> > few for literature and philosophy as well.
>
> >>> >> Well, as no-one ever mentioned his formal qualifications in the show
> >>> >> or the films, I'd be inclined to say that the weight of evidence is
> >>> >> against you.
>
> >> > Aww, what do they know. I've been watching "Star Trek" since I was
> >> > 10 years old. Spock is just too bookish and studious not to have
> >> > acquired higher academic credentials somewhere. I assume they are
> >> > not mentioned because they don't have a relevancy to his job as
> >> > science officer.
>
> >> > -Al-
>
> > or relevancy to the plot of the episode.
>
> Yes, Spock's degrees wouldn't be relevant to most episodes. They
> were probably not a part of the original "bible" of Star Trek, and
> so the writers of the episodes never referred to them. The writers
> are constrained by the bible -- they can't just add character
> aspects at will to series' characters. They have to stick to the
> bible, unless they get special permission to expand it.
>
> But just because no degrees are mentioned in the Trek episodes
> doesn't mean Spock has no degrees. A Vulcan of his love for
> knowledge and his wide travels and experience would almost
> inevitably accumulate academic credentials, particularly early in
> life, and in his later years, when he was not so occupied with the
> daily affairs of being an officer on a starship.
>
> We know Spock went back to Vulcan to study the way of
> emotionlessness between the end of the Original Series and the first
> movie. It is not unlikely that he studied academically as well. I
> wonder if it's ever been laid out how much schooling he had before
> he enrolled in Star Fleet Academy?
>
> -Al-

Wait a second. Some of Spock's "degrees" were mentioned. Such as being
a class A7 (I think it was A7) expert in computers.

While this does not speak to Spock having a PhD, it is quite possible
that in the future there are more advanced degrees. Generally, when
you have an advanced degree, you no longer mention the lesser ones.
For example, I have an BA, MA and PhD, but when I am being academic I
only list the PhD. Spock might be an A7 and only mention that because
it is higher than a PhD.

And, as far as plot devices go, you generally only mention academic
degrees when they are relevant to the situation. For example, I have
never before mentioned that I have a PhD in this new group because the
degree is not in Star Trek, and therefore not particularly relevant to
any discussion until now.

>> Yes, Spock's degrees wouldn't be relevant to most episodes. They
>> > were probably not a part of the original "bible" of Star Trek, and
>> > so the writers of the episodes never referred to them. The writers
>> > are constrained by the bible -- they can't just add character
>> > aspects at will to series' characters. They have to stick to the
>> > bible, unless they get special permission to expand it.
>> >
>> > But just because no degrees are mentioned in the Trek episodes
>> > doesn't mean Spock has no degrees. A Vulcan of his love for
>> > knowledge and his wide travels and experience would almost
>> > inevitably accumulate academic credentials, particularly early in
>> > life, and in his later years, when he was not so occupied with the
>> > daily affairs of being an officer on a starship.
>> >
>> > We know Spock went back to Vulcan to study the way of
>> > emotionlessness between the end of the Original Series and the first
>> > movie. It is not unlikely that he studied academically as well. I
>> > wonder if it's ever been laid out how much schooling he had before
>> > he enrolled in Star Fleet Academy?
>> >
>> > -Al-
>
> Wait a second. Some of Spock's "degrees" were mentioned. Such as being
> a class A7 (I think it was A7) expert in computers.
>
> While this does not speak to Spock having a PhD, it is quite possible
> that in the future there are more advanced degrees. Generally, when
> you have an advanced degree, you no longer mention the lesser ones.
> For example, I have an BA, MA and PhD, but when I am being academic I
> only list the PhD. Spock might be an A7 and only mention that because
> it is higher than a PhD.
>
> And, as far as plot devices go, you generally only mention academic
> degrees when they are relevant to the situation. For example, I have
> never before mentioned that I have a PhD in this new group because the
> degree is not in Star Trek, and therefore not particularly relevant to
> any discussion until now.

At the very least, Spock must have acquires A1 through A6 before A7. :-)

-Al-

Bones wrote:
> On Mar 27, 6:38 am, Al Smith <inva...@address.com> wrote:
>>> Al Smith <inva...@address.com> wrote
>>> innews:C8zGj.313$pb5.18@edtnps89:
>>
>>>>>>> Al Smith wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Al Smith wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bones wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Given that there were other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> non-medical doctors mentioned
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the series -- Dr. Daystrom
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> comes to mind -- we can use
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that as evidence that Spock did
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not have a doctorate.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, you can use that as evidence that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Spock was a Starfleet officer who is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> normally addressed by his rank. Dr.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Daystrom was a civilian and calling him
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "doctor" is the norm. I don't know if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Commander Spock had a doctorate at that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time of the series, but your "evidence"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is less than useful.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Realistically, Spock must have acquired
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> academic degrees. I mean, the man is a walking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> science library. He probably has a string of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> degrees as long as a Rigelian Bloodworm.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why?
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just because he's studied a subject, it doesn't mean
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he's sat an exam and earned a piece of paper saying
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "This is to certify that Mr Spock is awfully clever".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lots of people study things without ever taking an exam
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or test at the end of it all..
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> These are people who love to learn...They crave
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knowledge...For them, the thrill of becoming more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intelligent is reward enough.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He might have jut studied a subject and satisfied
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> himself with the fact that he fully understood it.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps Vulcans don't believe in formal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> qualifications.... Perhaps the rest of the galaxy don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see the need for Vulcans to hold formal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> qualifications...After all, Spock himself and several
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other Vulcans are heard to say "Vulcans are incapable
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of lying", so it might be taken as read that if a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Vulcan tells you he's an expert in molecular biology,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he's telling the truth....Perhaps a Vulcans word is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regarded as more reliable than a piece of paper which
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyone could produce on a 24th century inkjet printer.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Are you kidding. Spock? The original Mr. Pointy Head? Spock
>>>>>>>>>>> couldn't help accumulating degrees if his life depended on
>>>>>>>>>>> it. I bet he's got PhDs in half a dozen areas of science
>>>>>>>>>>> and probably a few for literature and philosophy as well.
>>
>>>>>>> Well, as no-one ever mentioned his formal qualifications in the
>>>>>>> show or the films, I'd be inclined to say that the weight of
>>>>>>> evidence is against you.
>>
>>>>> Aww, what do they know. I've been watching "Star Trek" since I was
>>>>> 10 years old. Spock is just too bookish and studious not to have
>>>>> acquired higher academic credentials somewhere. I assume they are
>>>>> not mentioned because they don't have a relevancy to his job as
>>>>> science officer.
>>
>>>>> -Al-
>>
>>> or relevancy to the plot of the episode.
>>
>> Yes, Spock's degrees wouldn't be relevant to most episodes. They
>> were probably not a part of the original "bible" of Star Trek, and
>> so the writers of the episodes never referred to them. The writers
>> are constrained by the bible -- they can't just add character
>> aspects at will to series' characters. They have to stick to the
>> bible, unless they get special permission to expand it.
>>
>> But just because no degrees are mentioned in the Trek episodes
>> doesn't mean Spock has no degrees. A Vulcan of his love for
>> knowledge and his wide travels and experience would almost
>> inevitably accumulate academic credentials, particularly early in
>> life, and in his later years, when he was not so occupied with the
>> daily affairs of being an officer on a starship.
>>
>> We know Spock went back to Vulcan to study the way of
>> emotionlessness between the end of the Original Series and the first
>> movie. It is not unlikely that he studied academically as well. I
>> wonder if it's ever been laid out how much schooling he had before
>> he enrolled in Star Fleet Academy?
>>
>> -Al-
>
> Wait a second. Some of Spock's "degrees" were mentioned. Such as being
> a class A7 (I think it was A7) expert in computers.

Aaah, but without a frame of reference, we have no way of knowing just how
advanced a class A7 qualification in computers actually is...
It might be the equivalent of the ECDL and ICDL qualification for all we
know...
http://www.ecdl.com/products/index.jsp?b=0&pID=102&nID=108

Al Smith wrote:

> Are you kidding. Spock? The original Mr. Pointy Head? Spock couldn't
> help accumulating degrees if his life depended on it. I bet he's got
> PhDs in half a dozen areas of science and probably a few for literature
> and philosophy as well.

We know that he is formally recognized as a top expert in the subject of
computers. That was established in Court Martial.

"I call Mr. Spock."

{computer voice} "Spock, serial number S-179-276-SP. Service rank--
Lieutenant Commander. Position-- first officer, science officer. Current
assignment-- U.S.S. Enterprise. Commendations-- Vulcanian Scientific
Legion of Honor. Awards of valor-- twice decorated by Starfleet command."

"Mr. Spock, as a first officer, you know a great deal about computers,
don't you?"

{Spock} "I know all about them."

Some interesting things to note about the above:

1) Spock is summoned to take the stand as "Mr. Spock", not Commander
Spock, not Doctor Spock.

2) Spock's rank at that time is Lt. Commander.

3) Spock's primary commendation is a "Vulcanian" one, their Scientific
Legion of Honor.

It seems obvious from the above that Spock's "degree" is a "Vulcanian"
one, and we have no reason to believe that they would call it a
doctorate degree, but certainly it could be equivalent or superior.

Nobody ever addressed Spock as "Doctor Spock" within his universe if I
recall correctly.

(not quite so) Fat Sam wrote:

> Well, as no-one ever mentioned his formal qualifications in the show or the
> films

That is incorrect. I immediately thought of one episode (Court Martial)
where his formal qualifications are mentioned.

Al Smith wrote:

> Aww, what do they know. I've been watching "Star Trek" since I was 10
> years old. Spock is just too bookish and studious not to have acquired
> higher academic credentials somewhere.

I agree.

Al Smith wrote:

> But just because no degrees are mentioned in the Trek episodes doesn't
> mean Spock has no degrees.

See Court Martial. Spock's Vulcan Science credentials are named.

(not quite so) Fat Sam wrote:

> Aaah, but without a frame of reference, we have no way of knowing just how
> advanced a class A7 qualification in computers actually is...

Yes we do. When asked in Court Martial if Spock knows a lot about
computers, he blandly replies that he knows ALL ABOUT THEM. That is
pretty all encompassing.

Spock is not boastful, nor inclined to exaggeration. If he actually
knows ~all~ there is to know about computers, that's rather impressive!

Listen guys, be careful of your own tendency to think that because you
don't remember something from the show that it means it isn't there.

Don't trust your memory. Memory is not reliable. Get the DVDs.

>> Are you kidding. Spock? The original Mr. Pointy Head? Spock couldn't help accumulating degrees if his life depended on it. I bet he's got PhDs in half a dozen areas of science and probably a few for literature and philosophy as well.
>
> We know that he is formally recognized as a top expert in the subject of computers. That was established in Court Martial.
>
> "I call Mr. Spock."
>
> {computer voice} "Spock, serial number S-179-276-SP. Service rank-- Lieutenant Commander. Position-- first officer, science officer. Current assignment-- U.S.S. Enterprise. Commendations-- Vulcanian Scientific Legion of Honor. Awards of valor-- twice decorated by Starfleet command."
>
> "Mr. Spock, as a first officer, you know a great deal about computers, don't you?"
>
> {Spock} "I know all about them."
>
> Some interesting things to note about the above:
>
> 1) Spock is summoned to take the stand as "Mr. Spock", not Commander Spock, not Doctor Spock.
>
> 2) Spock's rank at that time is Lt. Commander.
>
> 3) Spock's primary commendation is a "Vulcanian" one, their Scientific Legion of Honor.
>
> It seems obvious from the above that Spock's "degree" is a "Vulcanian" one, and we have no reason to believe that they would call it a doctorate degree, but certainly it could be equivalent or superior.
>
> Nobody ever addressed Spock as "Doctor Spock" within his universe if I recall correctly.


Do we know that the term "Doctor" is still used an an honorific in
Spock's time? I seem to remember a number of doctors, not all of
them medical. If the term "Doctor" is still used, and if Spock has
earned doctorate degrees, it's possible that he would disdain the
use of any honorable title, even one he had earned. He can't get out
of being addressed by his Starfleet rank, but maybe if he could, he
would avoid that also. He is hyper-wary about falling into the sins
of pride or vanity, and is likely to err on the other side, by
displaying excessive humility.

-Al-

ToolPackinMama wrote:
> Listen guys, be careful of your own tendency to think that because you
> don't remember something from the show that it means it isn't there.
>
> Don't trust your memory. Memory is not reliable. Get the DVDs.

I wish I could afford to...
I so wish I could afford to...

Having said that, I do own half a load of official Star Trek encycopaedias
on CDRom and traditional paper based books....
I suppose it wouldn't hurt me to check facts in those wvery once in a while
:-)

ToolPackinMama wrote:
> (not quite so) Fat Sam wrote:
>
>> Well, as no-one ever mentioned his formal qualifications in the show
>> or the films
>
> That is incorrect. I immediately thought of one episode (Court
> Martial) where his formal qualifications are mentioned.

And as soon as I sent that message, I remembered the episode where the
Enterprize was testing out an autonomous command computer...
In that episode, Spock tells Dr Daystrom of his computerry qualifications...

Bones wrote:
> On Mar 27, 6:38 am, Al Smith <inva...@address.com> wrote:
>>> Al Smith <inva...@address.com> wrote
>>> innews:C8zGj.313$pb5.18@edtnps89:

<snip>

>>
>> We know Spock went back to Vulcan to study the way of
>> emotionlessness between the end of the Original Series and the first
>> movie. It is not unlikely that he studied academically as well. I
>> wonder if it's ever been laid out how much schooling he had before
>> he enrolled in Star Fleet Academy?
>>
>> -Al-
>
> Wait a second. Some of Spock's "degrees" were mentioned. Such as being
> a class A7 (I think it was A7) expert in computers.
>
> While this does not speak to Spock having a PhD, it is quite possible
> that in the future there are more advanced degrees. Generally, when
> you have an advanced degree, you no longer mention the lesser ones.
> For example, I have an BA, MA and PhD, but when I am being academic I
> only list the PhD. Spock might be an A7 and only mention that because
> it is higher than a PhD.
>
> And, as far as plot devices go, you generally only mention academic
> degrees when they are relevant to the situation. For example, I have
> never before mentioned that I have a PhD in this new group because the
> degree is not in Star Trek, and therefore not particularly relevant to
> any discussion until now.

Consider this dialogue from 'Journey to Babel':

Kirk and his senior staff give Sarek and Amanda the grand tour of the ship.
Kirk (to Spock): Explain the computer components.
Sarek: I gave Spock his first instruction in computers, Captain.
He chose to devote his knowledge to Starfleet
instead of the Vulcan Science Academy.

Key phrase here is 'he chose to devote /his/ knowledge to Starfleet instead
of the Vulcan Science Academy.'

Spock already had knowledge (the first of that he got from his father) and
he had the opportunity to /devote/ that knowledge to that academy. Saying
he would disseminate *his* knowledge there. Could this possibly mean that
Spock was meant (by Sarek) to be a teacher there? If so, being a /teacher/
at an academy, he might be called /professor/. If he had done what Sarek had
desired him to do he might have been professor of computer science.
What do you think? 'Professor Spock' has a nice ring to it. ;-)

--
www.woutervalentijn.net

www.nksf.scifics.com/nksfseries.html

liam=mail

(not quite so) Fat Sam wrote:
> ToolPackinMama wrote:
>> (not quite so) Fat Sam wrote:
>>
>>> Well, as no-one ever mentioned his formal qualifications in the show
>>> or the films
>> That is incorrect. I immediately thought of one episode (Court
>> Martial) where his formal qualifications are mentioned.
>
> And as soon as I sent that message, I remembered the episode where the
> Enterprize was testing out an autonomous command computer...
> In that episode, Spock tells Dr Daystrom of his computerry qualifications...
>
>

Spock mentions his A-7 computer expert classification in the first few
minutes.

Wouter Valentijn wrote:

> Spock already had knowledge (the first of that he got from his father) and
> he had the opportunity to /devote/ that knowledge to that academy. Saying
> he would disseminate *his* knowledge there. Could this possibly mean that
> Spock was meant (by Sarek) to be a teacher there? If so, being a /teacher/
> at an academy, he might be called /professor/. If he had done what Sarek had
> desired him to do he might have been professor of computer science.
> What do you think? 'Professor Spock' has a nice ring to it. ;-)
>

Sounds logical :)

I'm sure he'd have a doctorate of Vulcan philosophy at least.

"heremon" <jaunty.akhenaten@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:039c1f9b-75d7-42a1-a3b8-15a2666fbd7f@s37g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> It's kind of a surprise to find the original Vulcan still referred to
> as "Dr. Spock" in the mundanemedia (see today's issue of The City, a
> fine free daily paper of San Fran) all these decades later.
>
> Still, can one not assume that such a title must have some truth?
> Surely he has earned more than one PhD in his career, after leaving
> Kirk's command.

ToolPackinMama wrote:
> (not quite so) Fat Sam wrote:
>
>> Aaah, but without a frame of reference, we have no way of knowing just
>> how advanced a class A7 qualification in computers actually is...
>
> Yes we do. When asked in Court Martial if Spock knows a lot about
> computers, he blandly replies that he knows ALL ABOUT THEM.

They normally have a classification 1-6, but for Spock, the dial goes up
to SEVEN! ;)

You do know that Dr. Spock is a real person who wrote a book about child psychology right? When people talk about Dr. Spock they aren't talking about the Vulcan, theyre talking about a human doctor.