"David E. Powell" <David_Powell3006@msn.com> wrote in message
news:4199c96f-2a06-4724-8ca1-3b0ae54319be@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23844529/?GT1=43001
>
> Doomsday fears spark lawsuit over collider
> Critics worry about mini-black holes, strangelets; experts reject
> claims
> A hardhat worker is dwarfed by the inner workings of the Large Hadron
> Collider's ATLAS detector, deep beneath the French-Swiss border.
> View related photos
> EIROforum / CERN
>
> FREE VIDEO
>
> Secrets of the universe
> March 1, 2007: Scientists are edging closer to launching an experiment
> designed to uncover the origins of the universe, known as the Large
> Hadron Collider.
> NBC News Web Extra
>
> Related stories What's this?
> Smash! The search for 'sparticles'
>
> By Alan Boyle
> Science editor
> MSNBC
> updated 11:23 a.m. ET, Fri., March. 28, 2008
>
> Alan Boyle
> Science editor
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> * Profile
> * E-mail
>
> The builders of the world's biggest particle collider are being sued
> in federal court over fears that the experiment might create globe-
> gobbling black holes or never-before-seen strains of matter that would
> destroy the planet.
>
> Representatives at Fermilab in Illinois and at Europe's CERN
> laboratory, two of the defendants in the case, say there's no chance
> that the Large Hadron Collider would cause such cosmic catastrophes.
> Nevertheless, they're bracing to defend themselves in the courtroom as
> well as the court of public opinion.
>
> The Large Hadron Collider, or LHC, is due for startup later this year
> at CERN's headquarters on the French-Swiss border. It's expected to
> tackle some of the deepest questions in science: Is the foundation of
> modern physics right or wrong? What existed during the very first
> moment of the universe's existence? Why do some particles have mass
> while others don't? What is the nature of dark matter? Are there extra
> dimensions of space out there that we haven't yet detected?
>
> Some folks outside the scientific mainstream have asked darker
> questions as well: Could the collider create mini-black holes that
> last long enough and get big enough to turn into a matter-sucking
> maelstrom? Could exotic particles known as magnetic monopoles throw
> atomic nuclei out of whack? Could quarks recombine into "strangelets"
> that would turn the whole Earth into one big lump of exotic matter?
>
> Former nuclear safety officer Walter Wagner has been raising such
> questions for years - first about an earlier-generation "big bang
> machine" known as the Relativistic Heavy-Ion Collider, and more
> recently about the LHC.
>
> Last Friday, Wagner and another critic of the LHC's safety measures,
> Luis Sancho, filed a lawsuit in Hawaii's U.S. District Court. The suit
> calls on the U.S. Department of Energy, Fermilab, the National Science
> Foundation and CERN to ease up on their LHC preparations for several
> months while the collider's safety was reassessed.
>
> "We're going to need a minimum of four months to review whatever
> they're putting out," Wagner told me on Monday. The suit seeks a
> temporary restraining order that would put the LHC on hold, pending
> the release and review of an updated CERN safety assessment. It also
> calls on the U.S. government to do a full environmental review
> addressing the LHC project, including the debate over the doomsday
> scenario.
>
> On Monday, District Judge Helen Gillmor assigned the case to a
> magistrate judge, Kevin S.C. Chang, for an initial conference on June
> 16. Wagner said he planned to ask for a more immediate hearing on the
> request for a restraining order - that is, once he has served the
> federal government with the court papers.
>
> The case is currently being handled by the U.S. attorney's office in
> Hawaii, where Wagner and Sancho both live,`but that may not
> necessarily be where the legal proceedings end up. The Justice
> Department's Environmental and Natural Resources Division, based in
> Washington, is also being brought in on the case, assistant U.S.
> attorney Derrick Watson told me in an e-mail Wednesday.
>
> In Washington, Justice Department spokesman Andrew Ames noted that the
> court papers had not yet been received. "We don't have any comment,"
> he told me Thursday. "We'll comment in court when it's appropriate."
>
> Debating doomsday
> The defense attorneys would likely dwell on the regulatory and
> procedural questions rather than the worries over a cosmic
> catastrophe. Those worries have been around for years, and most
> physicists have scoffed at them for almost as long. The doomsday
> scenarios raised by Sancho and Wagner include:
>
> Runaway black holes: Some physicists say the LHC could create
> microscopic black holes that would hang around for just a tiny
> fraction of a second and then decay. Sancho and Wagner worry that
> millions of black holes might somehow persist and coalesce into a
> compact gravitational mass that would draw in other matter and grow
> bigger. That's pure science fiction, said Michio Kaku, a theoretical
> physicist at the City College of New York. "These black holes don't
> live very long, and they have microscopic energy, and so they are
> harmless," he told me.
>
> Strangelets: Smashing protons together at high enough energies could
> create new combinations of quarks, the particles that protons are made
> of. Sancho and Wagner worry that a nasty combination known as a
> stable, negatively charged strangelet could theoretically turn
> everything it touches into strangelets as well. Kaku compared this to
> the ancient myth of the Midas touch. "We see no evidence of this
> bizarre theory," he said. "Once in a while, we trot it out to scare
> the pants off people. But it's not serious."
>
> Magnetic monopoles: One theory suggests that high-energy particle
> collisions might give rise to massive particles that have only one
> magnetic pole - only north, or only south, but not the north-south
> magnetism that dominates nature. Sancho and Wagner worry that such
> particles could be created in the LHC and start a runaway reaction
> that converts atoms into other forms of matter. But physicists have
> seen no evidence of such reactions, which should have occurred already
> as the result of more energetic cosmic-ray collisions in Earth's upper
> atmosphere.
> The cosmic-ray argument has been applied to the black-hole and
> strangelet scenarios as well. If such dangerous things can be created,
> why haven't they already eaten up Earth, along with other planets,
> stars or whole galaxies in the billions of years since the universe
> arose? To answer that question, Sancho and Wagner pose a
> counterargument: Perhaps cosmic-ray collisions really are creating
> tiny black holes or strangelets, but those little bits of doomsday zip
> by too fast to cause any trouble. In the LHC, they say, the bad stuff
> could hang around long enough to be captured by Earth's gravity and
> set off a catastrophe.
>
> In response, particle physicists are developing counter-
> counterarguments - based on their theoretical work as well as data
> from astronomical observations and experiments at the Relativistic
> Heavy-Ion Collider. For instance, the physicists would say that enough
> of the doomsday particles still should have been captured by neutron
> stars or cosmic gas clouds to have an impact. No such impact has ever
> been seen. Therefore, no doomsday.
>
> CERN spokesman James Gillies told me that a 2003 assessment of the
> doomsday scenarios was being updated with the new information. Release
> of that updated report - the one that Sancho and Wagner apparently
> have been waiting for - is "imminent," Gillies told me.
>
> Questions about the doomsday scenarios may well come up at CERN on
> April 6, during a public open house at the LHC. Some researchers have
> gotten the word to be prepared to talk about microscopic black holes
> and strangelets if asked.
>
> Reality check
> Saying something is absolutely impossible doesn't always come easy.
> Some scientists find it difficult to state categorically that such-and-
> such a theoretical catastrophe has no chance of happening, and
> Fermilab spokeswoman Judy Jackson told me that the doomsayers have
> "cynically distorted" that natural reluctance to rule out even the
> most outlandish theoretical possibilities.
>
> The doomsaying can continue as long as scientists hold out even a tiny
> sliver of uncertainty. Jackson cited the example of Paul Dixon, a
> psychology professor at the University of Hawaii at Hilo who has been
> saying for more than a decade that experiments at Fermilab's Tevatron
> accelerator are in danger of touching off an artificial supernova.
> Dixon is still going strong: He submitted an affidavit in support of
> the LHC lawsuit filed by Sancho and Wagner.
>
> The current lawsuit could well be decided not by scientific arguments
> but rather by narrower regulatory issues. On that point, Jackson said
> that Fermilab has followed U.S. environmental regulations, just as
> CERN has followed European regulations. "Of course there are plenty of
> environmental laws and regulations, and they have all been followed to
> the letter," she said.
>
> However, Jackson said CERN shouldn't be held to U.S. requirements when
> it comes to operating the LHC - even if the collider happens to be
> using magnets built by Fermilab. "Just because we built them doesn't
> mean we have any say over French environmental regulations," she said.
>
> For his part, Wagner said he hoped Fermilab and the other defendants
> in the lawsuit would take another look at the doomsday scenarios - and
> speculated that a restraining order might not even be necessary. He
> noted that the startup schedule for the LHC has been repeatedly
> delayed, which would give more time for further safety assessments.
> (CERN's schedule currently calls for first collisions by the end of
> August, and the word is that the collider may not reach its full power
> of 14 trillion electron-volts until next year.)
>
> Wagner suggested that cosmic-ray observations by the Pierre Auger
> Observatory and the yet-to-be-launched Gamma-ray Large Area Space
> Telescope, or GLAST, could shed new light on the debate. "The way I
> look at it, this should be a basis to look for more funding to find a
> solution to the problems we raised," he told me.
>
> An extended version of this report appears as a Cosmic Log posting on
> msnbc.com.

Could someone please call in Col. Carter or Dr. McKay? ASAP!

-- Ken from Chicago (who notes a supercollider is basically a giant circle)

In article <HcWdna6MotpGZ3LanZ2dnUVZ_o3inZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1b_nospam@comcast.net> wrote:

> > Last Friday, Wagner and another critic of the LHC's safety measures,
> > Luis Sancho, filed a lawsuit in Hawaii's U.S. District Court. The suit
> > calls on the U.S. Department of Energy, Fermilab, the National Science
> > Foundation and CERN to ease up on their LHC preparations for several
> > months while the collider's safety was reassessed.

What jurisdiction does a U.S. federal court have over a scientific
project in Switzerland?

"Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1b_nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:HcWdna6MotpGZ3LanZ2dnUVZ_o3inZ2d@comcast.com. ..

<snip>

> -- Ken from Chicago (who notes a supercollider is basically a giant
> circle)

Basically.

Eva
--
Join the Stargate SG-1 SETI@home Team
http://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/team_display.php?teamid=30516

"Ceremonies have killed religions for they provide the masked comforts to
delusionals..."

Thanatos wrote:
> In article <HcWdna6MotpGZ3LanZ2dnUVZ_o3inZ2d@comcast.com>,
> "Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1b_nospam@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>> Last Friday, Wagner and another critic of the LHC's safety measures,
>>> Luis Sancho, filed a lawsuit in Hawaii's U.S. District Court. The suit
>>> calls on the U.S. Department of Energy, Fermilab, the National Science
>>> Foundation and CERN to ease up on their LHC preparations for several
>>> months while the collider's safety was reassessed.
>
> What jurisdiction does a U.S. federal court have over a scientific
> project in Switzerland?


Fermi Labs, one of the partners, is based out of the University of
Illinois at Chicago.
Thus granting US courts rights to try the case.

And why did the mouth-breathing tin-foil hat wearers bring the case in
the US?

Well, that should be patently obvious: the Swiss Courts would have
tossed the suit and
charged them a fee for wasting the courts time
(or laughed themselves silly bumping it up to the EU courts in Brussles
since the
physical space for the supercollider apparently straddles the
Swiss/Italian border).

And the Italians would have tied the case up in knots for decades just
to watch them squirm.

Only in the US is any sitting judge stupid enough to let this case go
forward.


*sigh*

--Leigh

Eva wrote:
> "Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1b_nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:HcWdna6MotpGZ3LanZ2dnUVZ_o3inZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>
> <snip>
>
>> -- Ken from Chicago (who notes a supercollider is basically a giant
>> circle)
>
> Basically.
>

Well, only the circular ones.

--
www.woutervalentijn.net

www.nksf.scifics.com/nksfseries.html

liam=mail

In article <xuednTziRoKDkGzanZ2dnUVZ_tCrnZ2d@giganews.com>,
Leigh Claffey <lclaffey@comcast.net> wrote:

> Thanatos wrote:
> > In article <HcWdna6MotpGZ3LanZ2dnUVZ_o3inZ2d@comcast.com>,
> > "Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1b_nospam@comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> >>> Last Friday, Wagner and another critic of the LHC's safety measures,
> >>> Luis Sancho, filed a lawsuit in Hawaii's U.S. District Court. The suit
> >>> calls on the U.S. Department of Energy, Fermilab, the National Science
> >>> Foundation and CERN to ease up on their LHC preparations for several
> >>> months while the collider's safety was reassessed.
> >
> > What jurisdiction does a U.S. federal court have over a scientific
> > project in Switzerland?

> Fermi Labs, one of the partners, is based out of the University of
> Illinois at Chicago. Thus granting US courts rights to try the case.

No, that grants US courts jurisdiction over Fermilab and its
participation. A US court still doesn't have jurisdiction to tell CERN
to stop work on this project or grant a restraining order stopping
research in Switzerland.

On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 06:17:35 -0400, Thanatos <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

>In article <HcWdna6MotpGZ3LanZ2dnUVZ_o3inZ2d@comcast.com>,
> "Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1b_nospam@comcast.net> wrote:

>> > Last Friday, Wagner and another critic of the LHC's safety measures,
>> > Luis Sancho, filed a lawsuit in Hawaii's U.S. District Court. The suit
>> > calls on the U.S. Department of Energy, Fermilab, the National Science
>> > Foundation and CERN to ease up on their LHC preparations for several
>> > months while the collider's safety was reassessed.

>What jurisdiction does a U.S. federal court have over a scientific
>project in Switzerland?

That would depend on the specific contractual arrangements made between
the US government and the project's management. But seeing as how the
US government sent something like half a billion dollars to Switzerland
to help build the thing, I kind of suspect they got something in writing
giving the US some control over how it is used.


--
*John Schilling * "Anything worth doing, *
*Member:AIAA,NRA,ACLU,SAS,LP * is worth doing for money" *
*Chief Scientist & General Partner * -13th Rule of Acquisition *
*White Elephant Research, LLC * "There is no substitute *
*schillin@spock.usc.edu * for success" *
*661-718-0955 or 661-275-6795 * -58th Rule of Acquisition *

In article <nqq4v39esmofobb15e2p8t1791gahdp0vq@4ax.com>,
John Schilling <schillin@spock.usc.edu> wrote:

> On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 06:17:35 -0400, Thanatos <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>
> >In article <HcWdna6MotpGZ3LanZ2dnUVZ_o3inZ2d@comcast.com>,
> > "Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1b_nospam@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >> > Last Friday, Wagner and another critic of the LHC's safety measures,
> >> > Luis Sancho, filed a lawsuit in Hawaii's U.S. District Court. The suit
> >> > calls on the U.S. Department of Energy, Fermilab, the National Science
> >> > Foundation and CERN to ease up on their LHC preparations for several
> >> > months while the collider's safety was reassessed.
>
> >What jurisdiction does a U.S. federal court have over a scientific
> >project in Switzerland?
>
> That would depend on the specific contractual arrangements made between
> the US government and the project's management. But seeing as how the
> US government sent something like half a billion dollars to Switzerland
> to help build the thing, I kind of suspect they got something in writing
> giving the US some control over how it is used.

And if the Swiss say, "Yeah, well "some control" doesn't mean an
American judge gets to shut the whole thing down with the stroke of a
penb because some crank files a lawsuit in America. You go ahead and
have your court case but don't think we're going to let your judges tell
us what we can and can't do in Switzerland"... then what?

It's not like the judge can force the Swiss to comply with any of his
orders.

In article <atropos-AC8B4B.06173531032008@news.giganews.com>,
atropos@mac.com says...
> > > Last Friday, Wagner and another critic of the LHC's safety measures,
> > > Luis Sancho, filed a lawsuit in Hawaii's U.S. District Court. The suit
> > > calls on the U.S. Department of Energy, Fermilab, the National Science
> > > Foundation and CERN to ease up on their LHC preparations for several
> > > months while the collider's safety was reassessed.
>
> What jurisdiction does a U.S. federal court have over a scientific
> project in Switzerland?

Why, the US is the arbiter of what is to be called "science" worldwide,
didn't you know that? Since "science" goes against the teachings of the
Bible, it's to be summarily outlawed and people practicing "science"
will be rounded up and put in camps.

Gee, I wish that sounded more outlandish than it does.

In article <47f14c73$0$14360$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>,
"Wouter Valentijn" <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote:

> Eva wrote:
> > "Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1b_nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message
> > news:HcWdna6MotpGZ3LanZ2dnUVZ_o3inZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> >> -- Ken from Chicago (who notes a supercollider is basically a giant
> >> circle)
> >
> > Basically.
> >
>
> Well, only the circular ones.

Now there's some circular reasoning.

--
Star Trek 09:

No Shat, No Show.
http://www.disneysub.com/board/noshat.jpg

In article <atropos-394098.22301231032008@news.giganews.com>,
Thanatos <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

> In article <nqq4v39esmofobb15e2p8t1791gahdp0vq@4ax.com>,
> John Schilling <schillin@spock.usc.edu> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 06:17:35 -0400, Thanatos <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
> >
> > >In article <HcWdna6MotpGZ3LanZ2dnUVZ_o3inZ2d@comcast.com>,
> > > "Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1b_nospam@comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> > >> > Last Friday, Wagner and another critic of the LHC's safety measures,
> > >> > Luis Sancho, filed a lawsuit in Hawaii's U.S. District Court. The suit
> > >> > calls on the U.S. Department of Energy, Fermilab, the National Science
> > >> > Foundation and CERN to ease up on their LHC preparations for several
> > >> > months while the collider's safety was reassessed.
> >
> > >What jurisdiction does a U.S. federal court have over a scientific
> > >project in Switzerland?
> >
> > That would depend on the specific contractual arrangements made between
> > the US government and the project's management. But seeing as how the
> > US government sent something like half a billion dollars to Switzerland
> > to help build the thing, I kind of suspect they got something in writing
> > giving the US some control over how it is used.
>
> And if the Swiss say, "Yeah, well "some control" doesn't mean an
> American judge gets to shut the whole thing down with the stroke of a
> penb because some crank files a lawsuit in America. You go ahead and
> have your court case but don't think we're going to let your judges tell
> us what we can and can't do in Switzerland"... then what?
>
> It's not like the judge can force the Swiss to comply with any of his
> orders.

Yeah. You'd think the most he could do is to tell the government to not
send the next check.

--
Star Trek 09:

No Shat, No Show.
http://www.disneysub.com/board/noshat.jpg

On Mar 31, 3:17 am, Thanatos <atro...@mac.com> wrote:
> In article <HcWdna6MotpGZ3LanZ2dnUVZ_o3in...@comcast.com>,
> "Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1b_nos...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > > Last Friday, Wagner and another critic of the LHC's safety measures,
> > > Luis Sancho, filed a lawsuit in Hawaii's U.S. District Court. The suit
> > > calls on the U.S. Department of Energy, Fermilab, the National Science
> > > Foundation and CERN to ease up on their LHC preparations for several
> > > months while the collider's safety was reassessed.
>
> What jurisdiction does a U.S. federal court have over a scientific
> project in Switzerland?

That's an excellent point...
If some other country wants to destroy the universe,
Who are we to say they can't?

We sure can be arrogant can't we!

Anim8rFSK wrote:
> In article <47f14c73$0$14360$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>,
> "Wouter Valentijn" <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote:
>
>> Eva wrote:
>>> "Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1b_nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>> news:HcWdna6MotpGZ3LanZ2dnUVZ_o3inZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>> -- Ken from Chicago (who notes a supercollider is basically a giant
>>>> circle)
>>>
>>> Basically.
>>>
>>
>> Well, only the circular ones.
>
> Now there's some circular reasoning.

Here's something about none circulair colliders:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_particle_accelerator
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_Linear_Collider

Otoh... Try to imagine a linear device that stretches over the entire
equator. Then you would again have a cyclotron.

--
www.woutervalentijn.net

www.nksf.scifics.com/nksfseries.html

liam=mail

Ken from Chicago wrote:
> "David E. Powell" <David_Powell3006@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:4199c96f-2a06-4724-8ca1-3b0ae54319be@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...

<snip>

>> An extended version of this report appears as a Cosmic Log posting on
>> msnbc.com.
>
> Could someone please call in Col. Carter or Dr. McKay? ASAP!
>

Carter?
Oh, sure. You actually *want* the Earth destroyed.

--
www.woutervalentijn.net

www.nksf.scifics.com/nksfseries.html

liam=mail

"Wouter Valentijn" <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote in message
news:47f277d8$0$14350$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
> Ken from Chicago wrote:
>> "David E. Powell" <David_Powell3006@msn.com> wrote in message
>> news:4199c96f-2a06-4724-8ca1-3b0ae54319be@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> <snip>
>
>>> An extended version of this report appears as a Cosmic Log posting on
>>> msnbc.com.
>>
>> Could someone please call in Col. Carter or Dr. McKay? ASAP!
>>
>
> Carter?
> Oh, sure. You actually *want* the Earth destroyed.
>
> --
> www.woutervalentijn.net
>
> www.nksf.scifics.com/nksfseries.html
>
> liam=mail
>
>

Hey, the PLANET's safe.

The Sun, ... maybe not so much.

-- Ken from Chicago

"Anim8rFSK" <ANIM8Rfsk@cox.net> wrote in message
news:ANIM8Rfsk-99A32A.22325631032008@news.west.cox.net...
> In article <47f14c73$0$14360$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>,
> "Wouter Valentijn" <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote:
>
>> Eva wrote:
>> > "Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1b_nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> > news:HcWdna6MotpGZ3LanZ2dnUVZ_o3inZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>> >
>> > <snip>
>> >
>> >> -- Ken from Chicago (who notes a supercollider is basically a giant
>> >> circle)
>> >
>> > Basically.
>> >
>>
>> Well, only the circular ones.
>
> Now there's some circular reasoning.

Speak up, I can't sphere you.

-- Ken from Chicago

In article <KKOdndOW7NB-QG_anZ2dnUVZ_gCdnZ2d@comcast.com>, "Ken from
Chicago" <kwicker1b_nospam@comcast.net> wrote:

> "Wouter Valentijn" <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote in message
> news:47f277d8$0$14350$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
> > Ken from Chicago wrote:
> >> "David E. Powell" <David_Powell3006@msn.com> wrote in message
> >> news:4199c96f-2a06-4724-8ca1-3b0ae54319be@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> >>> An extended version of this report appears as a Cosmic Log posting on
> >>> msnbc.com.
> >>
> >> Could someone please call in Col. Carter or Dr. McKay? ASAP!
> >>
> >
> > Carter?
> > Oh, sure. You actually *want* the Earth destroyed.
>
> Hey, the PLANET's safe.
>
> The Sun, ... maybe not so much.


No comet / asteroid / etc. will ever destory the Earth ... they're all
too scared of being sued by millions of Americans. ;-)

"Anybody" <anybody@anywhere-anytime.com> wrote in message
news:020420081900018977%anybody@anywhere-anytime.com...
> In article <KKOdndOW7NB-QG_anZ2dnUVZ_gCdnZ2d@comcast.com>, "Ken from
> Chicago" <kwicker1b_nospam@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> "Wouter Valentijn" <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote in message
>> news:47f277d8$0$14350$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
>> > Ken from Chicago wrote:
>> >> "David E. Powell" <David_Powell3006@msn.com> wrote in message
>> >> news:4199c96f-2a06-4724-8ca1-3b0ae54319be@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> > <snip>
>> >
>> >>> An extended version of this report appears as a Cosmic Log posting on
>> >>> msnbc.com.
>> >>
>> >> Could someone please call in Col. Carter or Dr. McKay? ASAP!
>> >>
>> >
>> > Carter?
>> > Oh, sure. You actually *want* the Earth destroyed.
>>
>> Hey, the PLANET's safe.
>>
>> The Sun, ... maybe not so much.
>
>
> No comet / asteroid / etc. will ever destory the Earth ... they're all
> too scared of being sued by millions of Americans. ;-)

That and Bruce Willis.

-- Ken from Chicago

On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 20:14:10 -0500, in alt.tv.stargate-sg1, "Ken from Chicago"
<kwicker1b_nospam@comcast.net> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this:

...
... "Wouter Valentijn" <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote in message
... news:47f277d8$0$14350$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
... > Ken from Chicago wrote:
... >> "David E. Powell" <David_Powell3006@msn.com> wrote in message
... >> news:4199c96f-2a06-4724-8ca1-3b0ae54319be@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
... >
... > <snip>
... >
... >>> An extended version of this report appears as a Cosmic Log posting on
... >>> msnbc.com.
... >>
... >> Could someone please call in Col. Carter or Dr. McKay? ASAP!
... >>
... >
... > Carter?
... > Oh, sure. You actually *want* the Earth destroyed.
... >
... > --
... > www.woutervalentijn.net
... >
... > www.nksf.scifics.com/nksfseries.html
... >
... > liam=mail
... >
... >
...
... Hey, the PLANET's safe.
...
... The Sun, ... maybe not so much.

We'll have about eight minutes to live once the Sun is destroyed. In the best hypothesis,
that is.

=====
It sounds much better in French, but then, everything does.

Magda wrote:
> On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 20:14:10 -0500, in alt.tv.stargate-sg1, "Ken from
> Chicago" <kwicker1b_nospam@comcast.net> arranged some electrons, so
> they looked like this:
>
> ...
> ... "Wouter Valentijn" <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote in message
> ... news:47f277d8$0$14350$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
> ... > Ken from Chicago wrote:
> ... >> "David E. Powell" <David_Powell3006@msn.com> wrote in message
> ... >>
> news:4199c96f-2a06-4724-8ca1-3b0ae54319be@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> ... > ... > <snip>
> ... >
> ... >>> An extended version of this report appears as a Cosmic Log
> posting on ... >>> msnbc.com.
> ... >>
> ... >> Could someone please call in Col. Carter or Dr. McKay? ASAP!
> ... >>
> ... >
> ... > Carter?
> ... > Oh, sure. You actually *want* the Earth destroyed.
> ... >
> ... > --
> ... > www.woutervalentijn.net
> ... >
> ... > www.nksf.scifics.com/nksfseries.html
> ... >
> ... > liam=mail
> ... >
> ... >
> ...
> ... Hey, the PLANET's safe.
> ...
> ... The Sun, ... maybe not so much.
>
> We'll have about eight minutes to live once the Sun is destroyed. In
> the best hypothesis, that is.
>

And if the Sun doesn't do us in the cold surely will.


--
www.woutervalentijn.net

www.nksf.scifics.com/nksfseries.html

liam=mail

"Magda" <hello@keepthis.thankyou> wrote in message
news:7vn6v3l2a8ckcf1e5hef9ofi0479s5mgqu@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 20:14:10 -0500, in alt.tv.stargate-sg1, "Ken from
> Chicago"
> <kwicker1b_nospam@comcast.net> arranged some electrons, so they looked
> like this:
>
> ...
> ... "Wouter Valentijn" <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote in message
> ... news:47f277d8$0$14350$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
> ... > Ken from Chicago wrote:
> ... >> "David E. Powell" <David_Powell3006@msn.com> wrote in message
> ... >>
> news:4199c96f-2a06-4724-8ca1-3b0ae54319be@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> ... >
> ... > <snip>
> ... >
> ... >>> An extended version of this report appears as a Cosmic Log posting
> on
> ... >>> msnbc.com.
> ... >>
> ... >> Could someone please call in Col. Carter or Dr. McKay? ASAP!
> ... >>
> ... >
> ... > Carter?
> ... > Oh, sure. You actually *want* the Earth destroyed.
> ... >
> ... > --
> ... > www.woutervalentijn.net
> ... >
> ... > www.nksf.scifics.com/nksfseries.html
> ... >
> ... > liam=mail
> ... >
> ... >
> ...
> ... Hey, the PLANET's safe.
> ...
> ... The Sun, ... maybe not so much.
>
> We'll have about eight minutes to live once the Sun is destroyed. In the
> best hypothesis,
> that is.
>
> =====
> It sounds much better in French, but then, everything does.

Earth could survive the Sun's destruction.

The people, ... maybe not so much.

-- Optimistic Ken from Chicago

On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 22:30:12 -0400, Thanatos <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

>In article <nqq4v39esmofobb15e2p8t1791gahdp0vq@4ax.com>,
> John Schilling <schillin@spock.usc.edu> wrote:

>> On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 06:17:35 -0400, Thanatos <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

>> >In article <HcWdna6MotpGZ3LanZ2dnUVZ_o3inZ2d@comcast.com>,
>> > "Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1b_nospam@comcast.net> wrote:

>> >> > Last Friday, Wagner and another critic of the LHC's safety measures,
>> >> > Luis Sancho, filed a lawsuit in Hawaii's U.S. District Court. The suit
>> >> > calls on the U.S. Department of Energy, Fermilab, the National Science
>> >> > Foundation and CERN to ease up on their LHC preparations for several
>> >> > months while the collider's safety was reassessed.

>> >What jurisdiction does a U.S. federal court have over a scientific
>> >project in Switzerland?

>> That would depend on the specific contractual arrangements made between
>> the US government and the project's management. But seeing as how the
>> US government sent something like half a billion dollars to Switzerland
>> to help build the thing, I kind of suspect they got something in writing
>> giving the US some control over how it is used.

>And if the Swiss say, "Yeah, well "some control" doesn't mean an
>American judge gets to shut the whole thing down with the stroke of a
>penb because some crank files a lawsuit in America. You go ahead and
>have your court case but don't think we're going to let your judges tell
>us what we can and can't do in Switzerland"... then what?

As I said, that depends on the wording of the contract. But if the
contract has terms that would allow the US partners to veto or even
just delay startup, and I can think of several ways that's likely to
be true, then your hypothetical Swiss judge is also saying, "...and
we won't let the contracts we signed tell us what we can and can't
do in Switzerland!"

Then what?

Thousands of Americans who have between them billions of dollars
deposited in Swiss banks say to themselves, "Hmm, I thought my Swiss
bank deposits were pretty secure on account of that contract that
says I can withdraw my money at any time, and I know that any American
judge would rule in my favor if I had to sue to get my money back, but
now Swiss judges are saying that the Swiss will just ignore both the
contracts and the American judges whenever they want to do something
different? What if they decide they want to just keep all my money
and never give it back? Hmm, do judges in the Cayman Islands do that
sort of thing? Not that anyone's heard of recently? Perhaps I should
reconsider my banking arrangements..."

Which means that what *really* happens is that A: the Swiss judge is
not going to make such a daft ruling, and B: if he did, the Swiss
government would reverse the decision before anyone in the US had
even heard about it.


>It's not like the judge can force the Swiss to comply with any of his
>orders.

So what?

Law, and diplomacy, are for very good and sound reasons very, very
conservative (in the apolitical sense) professions. They do not, ever,
proceed on the basis of, "the other guy can't/won't force me to do
things his way by sending Men With Guns at me, so I'll just do whatever
I want and to hell with him, there's nothing he can do about it!"

Law and diplomacy favor the status quo over everything. The status
quo *does not change*, until A: everyone involved has agreed that it
should change, and how, or B: everyone involved has spent at least
six months trying to come to an agreement, failed, and some of them
have decided the issue is worth making an enemy over.


The status quo is that the LHC is turned off. Most likely, after an
American judge has had a quick chuckle at the American nutcases who
wasted his time with a dumbass lawsuit, all the lawyers and diplomats
involved will agree that the LHC should be turned on, on schedule.

But the status quo is that the LHC is turned off. If any of the
partners in the project, for any reason, want it to stay turned off,
it's not going to be turned on for at least six months, even if it
is in Switzerland where American Men With Guns can't/wouldn't dare
force the issue.

Because spending six months trying to do it right, is what convinces
the bystanders that you're also going to do the right thing when it
comes to e.g. their bank accounts.


--
*John Schilling * "Anything worth doing, *
*Member:AIAA,NRA,ACLU,SAS,LP * is worth doing for money" *
*Chief Scientist & General Partner * -13th Rule of Acquisition *
*White Elephant Research, LLC * "There is no substitute *
*schillin@spock.usc.edu * for success" *
*661-718-0955 or 661-275-6795 * -58th Rule of Acquisition *

On Wed, 2 Apr 2008 19:46:05 -0500, in alt.tv.stargate-sg1, "Ken from Chicago"
<kwicker1b_nospam@comcast.net> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this:

...
... "Magda" <hello@keepthis.thankyou> wrote in message
... news:7vn6v3l2a8ckcf1e5hef9ofi0479s5mgqu@4ax.com...
... > On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 20:14:10 -0500, in alt.tv.stargate-sg1, "Ken from
... > Chicago"
... > <kwicker1b_nospam@comcast.net> arranged some electrons, so they looked
... > like this:
... >
... > ...
... > ... "Wouter Valentijn" <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote in message
... > ... news:47f277d8$0$14350$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
... > ... > Ken from Chicago wrote:
... > ... >> "David E. Powell" <David_Powell3006@msn.com> wrote in message
... > ... >>
... > news:4199c96f-2a06-4724-8ca1-3b0ae54319be@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
... > ... >
... > ... > <snip>
... > ... >
... > ... >>> An extended version of this report appears as a Cosmic Log posting
... > on
... > ... >>> msnbc.com.
... > ... >>
... > ... >> Could someone please call in Col. Carter or Dr. McKay? ASAP!
... > ... >>
... > ... >
... > ... > Carter?
... > ... > Oh, sure. You actually *want* the Earth destroyed.
... > ... >
... > ... > --
... > ... > www.woutervalentijn.net
... > ... >
... > ... > www.nksf.scifics.com/nksfseries.html
... > ... >
... > ... > liam=mail
... > ... >
... > ... >
... > ...
... > ... Hey, the PLANET's safe.
... > ...
... > ... The Sun, ... maybe not so much.
... >
... > We'll have about eight minutes to live once the Sun is destroyed. In the
... > best hypothesis,
... > that is.
... >
... > =====
... > It sounds much better in French, but then, everything does.
...
... Earth could survive the Sun's destruction.
...
... The people, ... maybe not so much.

How much champagne can I drink in eight minutes...? I'll keep a bottle in the fridge, just
in case.

(If I have to die, at least let it be in style! ;))


=====
It sounds much better in French, but then, everything does.

In article <8qpav3tfmk1s66rornv1nsnq6orhh60dfc@4ax.com>,
John Schilling <schillin@spock.usc.edu> wrote:

> On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 22:30:12 -0400, Thanatos <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>
> >In article <nqq4v39esmofobb15e2p8t1791gahdp0vq@4ax.com>,
> > John Schilling <schillin@spock.usc.edu> wrote:
>
> >> On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 06:17:35 -0400, Thanatos <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

> >And if the Swiss say, "Yeah, well "some control" doesn't mean an
> >American judge gets to shut the whole thing down with the stroke of a
> >penb because some crank files a lawsuit in America. You go ahead and
> >have your court case but don't think we're going to let your judges tell
> >us what we can and can't do in Switzerland"... then what?
>
> As I said, that depends on the wording of the contract. But if the
> contract has terms that would allow the US partners to veto or even
> just delay startup, and I can think of several ways that's likely to
> be true, then your hypothetical Swiss judge is also saying, "...and
> we won't let the contracts we signed tell us what we can and can't
> do in Switzerland!"

First, my hypothetical judge was American, not Swiss.

Second, even if the contract has terms that would "allow the US partners
to veto or even just delay startup", then only the *partners* could use
those terms to sue to stop the project. Some cranky third party would
have no standing under the contract to demand an injunction and no
American court would have jurisdiction to grant him one.

> Then what?
>
> Thousands of Americans who have between them billions of dollars
> deposited in Swiss banks say to themselves, "Hmm, I thought my Swiss
> bank deposits were pretty secure on account of that contract that
> says I can withdraw my money at any time, and I know that any American
> judge would rule in my favor if I had to sue to get my money back

Umm... no. An American court would tell the plaintiff "Your contract was
signed and executed with a Swiss bank in Switzerland. The proper place
for your lawsuit is in a Swiss court, not an American court."

> but now Swiss judges are saying that the Swiss will just
> ignore both the contracts

Why do you think Swiss courts will just allow banks to ignore banking
contracts executed in Switzerland under Swiss law? You seem to think the
entire world economy will collapse without American courts to enforce
other countries' laws for them.

> Law and diplomacy favor the status quo over everything.

The judge hearing this case is not a diplomat and the diplomats in
Switzerland don't much care what other governments think or want when
their best interests are at stake. If they did, Switzerland wouldn't
tell the other governments of the world to go pound sand when it comes
to banking secrecy. The Swiss are notorious pain in the *** when it
comes to such things. It took something on the scale of 9-11 to get them
to agree to small concessions in banking secrecy in terrorism cases and
even those concessions have since reverted back to the status quo.

> The status quo *does not change*, until A: everyone involved
> has agreed that it should change, and how, or B: everyone
> involved has spent at least six months trying to come to an
> agreement, failed, and some of them have decided the issue is
> worth making an enemy over.

Really? Where do you get this stuff? Where is this six month requirement
set out?

In article <oo19v3lonkvseduk5fqvkp13vvvucgh3p3@4ax.com>,
Magda <hello@keepthis.thankyou> wrote:

> On Wed, 2 Apr 2008 19:46:05 -0500, in alt.tv.stargate-sg1, "Ken from Chicago"
> <kwicker1b_nospam@comcast.net> arranged some electrons, so they looked like
> this:

> ... > We'll have about eight minutes to live once the Sun
> ... > is destroyed. In the best hypothesis, that is.

> How much champagne can I drink in eight minutes...? I'll keep
> a bottle in the fridge, just in case.

> (If I have to die, at least let it be in style! ;))

The thing is, you won't know when that 8-minute clock starts counting
down. Since nothing can travel faster than the speed of light, your
first clue that something has happened will be when the countdown
reaches zero and the earth is flash-fried to a cinder.

On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 06:36:13 -0400, in alt.tv.stargate-sg1, Thanatos <atropos@mac.com>
arranged some electrons, so they looked like this:

... In article <oo19v3lonkvseduk5fqvkp13vvvucgh3p3@4ax.com>,
... Magda <hello@keepthis.thankyou> wrote:
...
... > On Wed, 2 Apr 2008 19:46:05 -0500, in alt.tv.stargate-sg1, "Ken from Chicago"
... > <kwicker1b_nospam@comcast.net> arranged some electrons, so they looked like
... > this:
...
... > ... > We'll have about eight minutes to live once the Sun
... > ... > is destroyed. In the best hypothesis, that is.
...
... > How much champagne can I drink in eight minutes...? I'll keep
... > a bottle in the fridge, just in case.
...
... > (If I have to die, at least let it be in style! ;))
...
... The thing is, you won't know when that 8-minute clock starts counting
... down. Since nothing can travel faster than the speed of light, your
... first clue that something has happened will be when the countdown
... reaches zero and the earth is flash-fried to a cinder.

Spoil sport. :((


=====
It sounds much better in French, but then, everything does.

In article <atropos-A3E6A7.06361303042008@news.giganews.com>,
atropos@mac.com says...
> The thing is, you won't know when that 8-minute clock starts counting
> down. Since nothing can travel faster than the speed of light, your
> first clue that something has happened will be when the countdown
> reaches zero and the earth is flash-fried to a cinder.

What if it just kinda goes...

"Whuff?"

In the sacred domain of alt.tv.stargate-sg1,
Magda <hello@keepthis.thankyou> didnst hastily scribble thusly:
> ... The thing is, you won't know when that 8-minute clock starts counting
> ... down. Since nothing can travel faster than the speed of light, your
> ... first clue that something has happened will be when the countdown
> ... reaches zero and the earth is flash-fried to a cinder.

> Spoil sport. :((

OK, look on the bright side...
The sun might not explode/go nova...
It might just go out...
Or get mysteriously teleported to some distant corner of the universe by
powerful aliens (because their sunlamp died)

If that happens, then the first you'll know of it will be 8 minutes later
when it becomes instant night globally, the earth is wracked by earthquakes
and tsunami as it's unleashed into the void as its gravitational tethers are
cut... It'll also get very cold very quickly, which will be nice at chilling
your champagun.
:)

In those circumstances, you might have a day to enjoy an entire crate of
champagun before all the heat has bled into space and the atmpsphere has
begun to condense.
--
__________________________________________________ ____________________________
| spike1@freenet.co.uk | "I'm alive!!! I can touch! I can taste! |
|Andrew Halliwell BSc(hons)| I can SMELL!!! KRYTEN!!! Unpack Rachel and |
| in | get out the puncture repair kit!" |
| Computer Science | Arnold Judas Rimmer- Red Dwarf |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Thu, 3 Apr 2008 12:43:27 +0100, in alt.tv.stargate-sg1, spike1@freenet.co.uk arranged
some electrons, so they looked like this:

... In the sacred domain of alt.tv.stargate-sg1,
... Magda <hello@keepthis.thankyou> didnst hastily scribble thusly:
... > ... The thing is, you won't know when that 8-minute clock starts counting
... > ... down. Since nothing can travel faster than the speed of light, your
... > ... first clue that something has happened will be when the countdown
... > ... reaches zero and the earth is flash-fried to a cinder.
...
... > Spoil sport. :((
...
... OK, look on the bright side...
... The sun might not explode/go nova...
... It might just go out...

Hardly. It's not a bulb.

... Or get mysteriously teleported to some distant corner of the universe by
... powerful aliens (because their sunlamp died)

Sam Carter is still in the sun blowing business?

... If that happens, then the first you'll know of it will be 8 minutes later
... when it becomes instant night globally, the earth is wracked by earthquakes
... and tsunami as it's unleashed into the void as its gravitational tethers are
... cut... It'll also get very cold very quickly, which will be nice at chilling
... your champagun.
... :)

No one to drink it. Duh.

... In those circumstances, you might have a day to enjoy an entire crate of
... champagun before all the heat has bled into space and the atmpsphere has
... begun to condense.

Ok, I'll open a bottle of chardonnay and enjoy it today. :))


=====
It sounds much better in French, but then, everything does.

Magda wrote:

> On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 06:36:13 -0400, in alt.tv.stargate-sg1, Thanatos <atropos@mac.com>
> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this:
>
> ... In article <oo19v3lonkvseduk5fqvkp13vvvucgh3p3@4ax.com>,
> ... Magda <hello@keepthis.thankyou> wrote:
> ...
> ... > On Wed, 2 Apr 2008 19:46:05 -0500, in alt.tv.stargate-sg1, "Ken from Chicago"
> ... > <kwicker1b_nospam@comcast.net> arranged some electrons, so they looked like
> ... > this:
> ...
> ... > ... > We'll have about eight minutes to live once the Sun
> ... > ... > is destroyed. In the best hypothesis, that is.
> ...
> ... > How much champagne can I drink in eight minutes...? I'll keep
> ... > a bottle in the fridge, just in case.
> ...
> ... > (If I have to die, at least let it be in style! ;))
> ...
> ... The thing is, you won't know when that 8-minute clock starts counting
> ... down. Since nothing can travel faster than the speed of light, your
> ... first clue that something has happened will be when the countdown
> ... reaches zero and the earth is flash-fried to a cinder.
>
> Spoil sport. :((
>



Better drink the champagne now, just in case.

Thanatos wrote:
> In article <oo19v3lonkvseduk5fqvkp13vvvucgh3p3@4ax.com>,
> Magda <hello@keepthis.thankyou> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 2 Apr 2008 19:46:05 -0500, in alt.tv.stargate-sg1, "Ken from
>> Chicago" <kwicker1b_nospam@comcast.net> arranged some electrons, so
>> they looked like this:
>
>> ... > We'll have about eight minutes to live once the Sun
>> ... > is destroyed. In the best hypothesis, that is.
>
>> How much champagne can I drink in eight minutes...? I'll keep
>> a bottle in the fridge, just in case.
>
>> (If I have to die, at least let it be in style! ;))
>
> The thing is, you won't know when that 8-minute clock starts counting
> down. Since nothing can travel faster than the speed of light, your
> first clue that something has happened will be when the countdown
> reaches zero and the earth is flash-fried to a cinder.

Not if you have some advanced warning.
Suppose Carter is using some machine to do something nasty to the sun and
you are standing right next to her. Provided that machine sends something
out with the speed op light you know it will take those 8 minutes to reach
the Sun, and if it works instantly there, 8 minutes for its effects to reach
Earth. You will have a *full* sixteen minutes left. That's more than a
quarter of an hour. Rejoice!


--
www.woutervalentijn.net

www.nksf.scifics.com/nksfseries.html

liam=mail

In article <47f51629$0$14361$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>,
"Wouter Valentijn" <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote:

> Thanatos wrote:
> > In article <oo19v3lonkvseduk5fqvkp13vvvucgh3p3@4ax.com>,
> > Magda <hello@keepthis.thankyou> wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, 2 Apr 2008 19:46:05 -0500, in alt.tv.stargate-sg1, "Ken from
> >> Chicago" <kwicker1b_nospam@comcast.net> arranged some electrons, so
> >> they looked like this:
> >
> >> ... > We'll have about eight minutes to live once the Sun
> >> ... > is destroyed. In the best hypothesis, that is.
> >
> >> How much champagne can I drink in eight minutes...? I'll keep
> >> a bottle in the fridge, just in case.
> >
> >> (If I have to die, at least let it be in style! ;))
> >
> > The thing is, you won't know when that 8-minute clock starts counting
> > down. Since nothing can travel faster than the speed of light, your
> > first clue that something has happened will be when the countdown
> > reaches zero and the earth is flash-fried to a cinder.
>
> Not if you have some advanced warning.
> Suppose Carter is using some machine to do something nasty to the sun and
> you are standing right next to her. Provided that machine sends something
> out with the speed op light you know it will take those 8 minutes to reach
> the Sun, and if it works instantly there, 8 minutes for its effects to reach
> Earth. You will have a *full* sixteen minutes left. That's more than a
> quarter of an hour. Rejoice!

And, you've got Carter standing right there . . .

--
Star Trek 09:

No Shat, No Show.
http://www.disneysub.com/board/noshat.jpg

Anim8rFSK wrote:
> In article <47f51629$0$14361$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>,
> "Wouter Valentijn" <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote:
>
>> Thanatos wrote:
>>> In article <oo19v3lonkvseduk5fqvkp13vvvucgh3p3@4ax.com>,
>>> Magda <hello@keepthis.thankyou> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 2 Apr 2008 19:46:05 -0500, in alt.tv.stargate-sg1, "Ken
>>>> from Chicago" <kwicker1b_nospam@comcast.net> arranged some
>>>> electrons, so they looked like this:
>>>
>>>> ... > We'll have about eight minutes to live once the Sun
>>>> ... > is destroyed. In the best hypothesis, that is.
>>>
>>>> How much champagne can I drink in eight minutes...? I'll keep
>>>> a bottle in the fridge, just in case.
>>>
>>>> (If I have to die, at least let it be in style! ;))
>>>
>>> The thing is, you won't know when that 8-minute clock starts
>>> counting down. Since nothing can travel faster than the speed of
>>> light, your first clue that something has happened will be when the
>>> countdown reaches zero and the earth is flash-fried to a cinder.
>>
>> Not if you have some advanced warning.
>> Suppose Carter is using some machine to do something nasty to the
>> sun and you are standing right next to her. Provided that machine
>> sends something out with the speed op light you know it will take
>> those 8 minutes to reach the Sun, and if it works instantly there, 8
>> minutes for its effects to reach Earth. You will have a *full*
>> sixteen minutes left. That's more than a quarter of an hour. Rejoice!
>
> And, you've got Carter standing right there . . .

Exactly! :-D

--
www.woutervalentijn.net

www.nksf.scifics.com/nksfseries.html

liam=mail

"Wouter Valentijn" <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote in message
news:47f541f9$0$14347$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
> Anim8rFSK wrote:
>> In article <47f51629$0$14361$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>,
>> "Wouter Valentijn" <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanatos wrote:
>>>> In article <oo19v3lonkvseduk5fqvkp13vvvucgh3p3@4ax.com>,
>>>> Magda <hello@keepthis.thankyou> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 2 Apr 2008 19:46:05 -0500, in alt.tv.stargate-sg1, "Ken
>>>>> from Chicago" <kwicker1b_nospam@comcast.net> arranged some
>>>>> electrons, so they looked like this:
>>>>
>>>>> ... > We'll have about eight minutes to live once the Sun
>>>>> ... > is destroyed. In the best hypothesis, that is.
>>>>
>>>>> How much champagne can I drink in eight minutes...? I'll keep
>>>>> a bottle in the fridge, just in case.
>>>>
>>>>> (If I have to die, at least let it be in style! ;))
>>>>
>>>> The thing is, you won't know when that 8-minute clock starts
>>>> counting down. Since nothing can travel faster than the speed of
>>>> light, your first clue that something has happened will be when the
>>>> countdown reaches zero and the earth is flash-fried to a cinder.
>>>
>>> Not if you have some advanced warning.
>>> Suppose Carter is using some machine to do something nasty to the
>>> sun and you are standing right next to her. Provided that machine
>>> sends something out with the speed op light you know it will take
>>> those 8 minutes to reach the Sun, and if it works instantly there, 8
>>> minutes for its effects to reach Earth. You will have a *full*
>>> sixteen minutes left. That's more than a quarter of an hour. Rejoice!
>>
>> And, you've got Carter standing right there . . .
>
> Exactly! :-D
>
> --
> www.woutervalentijn.net
>
> www.nksf.scifics.com/nksfseries.html
>
> liam=mail
>
>

Oh puhlease, like that'll happen.

'sides, she's smitten over McKay.

-- Ken from Chicago

In article <vfsec5-qku.ln1@ponder.sky.com>, spike1@freenet.co.uk says...
> OK, look on the bright side...
> The sun might not explode/go nova...
> It might just go out...
> Or get mysteriously teleported to some distant corner of the universe by
> powerful aliens (because their sunlamp died)

Suns with the mass that our sun has don't blow up and they don't just go
out. They swell up over a period of about eight billion years or so
until the Earth's orbit is inside its radius.

In the sacred domain of alt.tv.stargate-atlantis,
Forge <forge@killallspammers.youneedageek.com> didnst hastily scribble thusly:
> In article <vfsec5-qku.ln1@ponder.sky.com>, spike1@freenet.co.uk says...
>> OK, look on the bright side...
>> The sun might not explode/go nova...
>> It might just go out...
>> Or get mysteriously teleported to some distant corner of the universe by
>> powerful aliens (because their sunlamp died)

> Suns with the mass that our sun has don't blow up and they don't just go
> out. They swell up over a period of about eight billion years or so
> until the Earth's orbit is inside its radius.

I *knooooow*
I was being silly.
--
__________________________________________________ ____________________________
| spike1@freenet.co.uk | "I'm alive!!! I can touch! I can taste! |
|Andrew Halliwell BSc(hons)| I can SMELL!!! KRYTEN!!! Unpack Rachel and |
| in | get out the puncture repair kit!" |
| Computer Science | Arnold Judas Rimmer- Red Dwarf |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In article <MPG.225f49ad775a47b098990c@newsgroups.comcast.net>,
Forge <forge@killallspammers.youneedageek.com> wrote:

> In article <vfsec5-qku.ln1@ponder.sky.com>, spike1@freenet.co.uk says...
> > OK, look on the bright side...
> > The sun might not explode/go nova...
> > It might just go out...
> > Or get mysteriously teleported to some distant corner
> > of the universe by powerful aliens (because their sunlamp died)
>
> Suns with the mass that our sun has don't blow up and they
> don't just go out.

You obviously haven't watched enough Star Trek movies.

On Fri, 04 Apr 2008 06:15:02 -0400, in alt.tv.stargate-sg1, Thanatos <atropos@mac.com>
arranged some electrons, so they looked like this:

... In article <MPG.225f49ad775a47b098990c@newsgroups.comcast.net>,
... Forge <forge@killallspammers.youneedageek.com> wrote:
...
... > In article <vfsec5-qku.ln1@ponder.sky.com>, spike1@freenet.co.uk says...
... > > OK, look on the bright side...
... > > The sun might not explode/go nova...
... > > It might just go out...
... > > Or get mysteriously teleported to some distant corner
... > > of the universe by powerful aliens (because their sunlamp died)
... >
... > Suns with the mass that our sun has don't blow up and they
... > don't just go out.
...
... You obviously haven't watched enough Star Trek movies.

He might have learned enough Physics, though.

=====
It sounds much better in French, but then, everything does.

In article <to1hc5-b7e.ln1@ponder.sky.com>, spike1@freenet.co.uk says...
> > Suns with the mass that our sun has don't blow up and they don't just go
> > out. They swell up over a period of about eight billion years or so
> > until the Earth's orbit is inside its radius.
>
> I *knooooow*
> I was being silly.

dang, I figured that was probably the case. Oh well!!

In article <atropos-0886EB.06150204042008@news.giganews.com>,
atropos@mac.com says...
> In article <MPG.225f49ad775a47b098990c@newsgroups.comcast.net>,
> Forge <forge@killallspammers.youneedageek.com> wrote:
>
> > In article <vfsec5-qku.ln1@ponder.sky.com>, spike1@freenet.co.uk says...
> > > OK, look on the bright side...
> > > The sun might not explode/go nova...
> > > It might just go out...
> > > Or get mysteriously teleported to some distant corner
> > > of the universe by powerful aliens (because their sunlamp died)
> >
> > Suns with the mass that our sun has don't blow up and they
> > don't just go out.
>
> You obviously haven't watched enough Star Trek movies.

Heh. Well, you might get a star like ours to blow up if you actually
blew it up, say, by messing with gravity or some other manipulation of
spacetime. But not with anything we can do with TODAY'S physics.

Forge wrote:
> In article <atropos-0886EB.06150204042008@news.giganews.com>,
> atropos@mac.com says...
>> In article <MPG.225f49ad775a47b098990c@newsgroups.comcast.net>,
>> Forge <forge@killallspammers.youneedageek.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <vfsec5-qku.ln1@ponder.sky.com>, spike1@freenet.co.uk
>>> says...
>>>> OK, look on the bright side...
>>>> The sun might not explode/go nova...
>>>> It might just go out...
>>>> Or get mysteriously teleported to some distant corner
>>>> of the universe by powerful aliens (because their sunlamp died)
>>>
>>> Suns with the mass that our sun has don't blow up and they
>>> don't just go out.
>>
>> You obviously haven't watched enough Star Trek movies.
>
> Heh. Well, you might get a star like ours to blow up if you actually
> blew it up, say, by messing with gravity or some other manipulation of
> spacetime. But not with anything we can do with TODAY'S physics.

Or by somehow changing regular matter inside its core into anti-matter.

--
www.woutervalentijn.net

www.nksf.scifics.com/nksfseries.html

liam=mail

Ken from Chicago wrote:
> "Wouter Valentijn" <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote in message
> news:47f541f9$0$14347$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
>> Anim8rFSK wrote:
>>> In article <47f51629$0$14361$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>,
>>> "Wouter Valentijn" <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanatos wrote:
>>>>> In article <oo19v3lonkvseduk5fqvkp13vvvucgh3p3@4ax.com>,
>>>>> Magda <hello@keepthis.thankyou> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, 2 Apr 2008 19:46:05 -0500, in alt.tv.stargate-sg1, "Ken
>>>>>> from Chicago" <kwicker1b_nospam@comcast.net> arranged some
>>>>>> electrons, so they looked like this:
>>>>>
>>>>>> ... > We'll have about eight minutes to live once the Sun
>>>>>> ... > is destroyed. In the best hypothesis, that is.
>>>>>
>>>>>> How much champagne can I drink in eight minutes...? I'll keep
>>>>>> a bottle in the fridge, just in case.
>>>>>
>>>>>> (If I have to die, at least let it be in style! ;))
>>>>>
>>>>> The thing is, you won't know when that 8-minute clock starts
>>>>> counting down. Since nothing can travel faster than the speed of
>>>>> light, your first clue that something has happened will be when
>>>>> the countdown reaches zero and the earth is flash-fried to a
>>>>> cinder.
>>>>
>>>> Not if you have some advanced warning.
>>>> Suppose Carter is using some machine to do something nasty to the
>>>> sun and you are standing right next to her. Provided that machine
>>>> sends something out with the speed op light you know it will take
>>>> those 8 minutes to reach the Sun, and if it works instantly there,
>>>> 8 minutes for its effects to reach Earth. You will have a *full*
>>>> sixteen minutes left. That's more than a quarter of an hour.
>>>> Rejoice!
>>>
>>> And, you've got Carter standing right there . . .
>>
>> Exactly! :-D
>
> Oh puhlease, like that'll happen.

This is a woman who allowed her replicator self get away....
Her sense of judgment will work in my favor.
Just saying.

>
> 'sides, she's smitten over McKay.
>

Who said he was an issue?
He would be somewhere else of course.
It would be just me and Samantha. On a deserted island. No hatches.

--
www.woutervalentijn.net

www.nksf.scifics.com/nksfseries.html

liam=mail

In article <atropos-AC8B4B.06173531032008@news.giganews.com>,
atropos@mac.com says...
> In article <HcWdna6MotpGZ3LanZ2dnUVZ_o3inZ2d@comcast.com>,
> "Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1b_nospam@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > > Last Friday, Wagner and another critic of the LHC's safety measures,
> > > Luis Sancho, filed a lawsuit in Hawaii's U.S. District Court. The suit
> > > calls on the U.S. Department of Energy, Fermilab, the National Science
> > > Foundation and CERN to ease up on their LHC preparations for several
> > > months while the collider's safety was reassessed.
>
> What jurisdiction does a U.S. federal court have over a scientific
> project in Switzerland?

The US has jurisdiction over the world, didn't you know? ;)

In article <vfsec5-qku.ln1@ponder.sky.com>, <spike1@freenet.co.uk> wrote:
>In the sacred domain of alt.tv.stargate-sg1,
>Magda <hello@keepthis.thankyou> didnst hastily scribble thusly:
>> ... The thing is, you won't know when that 8-minute clock starts counting
>> ... down. Since nothing can travel faster than the speed of light, your
>> ... first clue that something has happened will be when the countdown
>> ... reaches zero and the earth is flash-fried to a cinder.
>
>> Spoil sport. :((
>
>OK, look on the bright side...
>The sun might not explode/go nova...
>It might just go out...
>Or get mysteriously teleported to some distant corner of the universe by
>powerful aliens (because their sunlamp died)
>
>If that happens, then the first you'll know of it will be 8 minutes later
>when it becomes instant night globally, the earth is wracked by earthquakes
>and tsunami as it's unleashed into the void as its gravitational tethers are
>cut... It'll also get very cold very quickly, which will be nice at chilling
>your champagun.
>:)
>
>In those circumstances, you might have a day to enjoy an entire crate of
>champagun before all the heat has bled into space and the atmpsphere has
>begun to condense.

There's a short story about this. The main character is on the night
side of the planet and learns of the solar ray or nova or whatever
it is and has some minutes left to live because the bulk of the
earth is protection.

Jill
--
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++
The colors blend, the edges soften. Swirling and mixing
we are becoming white light.
jill@tuells.org

In article <ZdudnfdpNchz5GjanZ2dnUVZ_uidnZ2d@comcast.com>,
Ken from Chicago <kwicker1b_nospam@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>"Wouter Valentijn" <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote in message
>news:47f541f9$0$14347$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
>> Anim8rFSK wrote:
>>> In article <47f51629$0$14361$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>,
>>> "Wouter Valentijn" <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanatos wrote:
>>>>> In article <oo19v3lonkvseduk5fqvkp13vvvucgh3p3@4ax.com>,
>>>>> Magda <hello@keepthis.thankyou> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, 2 Apr 2008 19:46:05 -0500, in alt.tv.stargate-sg1, "Ken
>>>>>> from Chicago" <kwicker1b_nospam@comcast.net> arranged some
>>>>>> electrons, so they looked like this:
>>>>>
>>>>>> ... > We'll have about eight minutes to live once the Sun
>>>>>> ... > is destroyed. In the best hypothesis, that is.
>>>>>
>>>>>> How much champagne can I drink in eight minutes...? I'll keep
>>>>>> a bottle in the fridge, just in case.
>>>>>
>>>>>> (If I have to die, at least let it be in style! ;))
>>>>>
>>>>> The thing is, you won't know when that 8-minute clock starts
>>>>> counting down. Since nothing can travel faster than the speed of
>>>>> light, your first clue that something has happened will be when the
>>>>> countdown reaches zero and the earth is flash-fried to a cinder.
>>>>
>>>> Not if you have some advanced warning.
>>>> Suppose Carter is using some machine to do something nasty to the
>>>> sun and you are standing right next to her. Provided that machine
>>>> sends something out with the speed op light you know it will take
>>>> those 8 minutes to reach the Sun, and if it works instantly there, 8
>>>> minutes for its effects to reach Earth. You will have a *full*
>>>> sixteen minutes left. That's more than a quarter of an hour. Rejoice!
>>>
>>> And, you've got Carter standing right there . . .
>>
>> Exactly! :-D
>>
>> --
>> www.woutervalentijn.net
>>
>> www.nksf.scifics.com/nksfseries.html
>>
>> liam=mail
>>
>>
>
>Oh puhlease, like that'll happen.
>
>'sides, she's smitten over McKay.
>
>-- Ken from Chicago

*blech* She is _not_! She is still smitten over Jack.

Jill
--
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++
The colors blend, the edges soften. Swirling and mixing
we are becoming white light.
jill@tuells.org

<spike1@freenet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:vfsec5-qku.ln1@ponder.sky.com...
> In the sacred domain of alt.tv.stargate-sg1,
> Magda <hello@keepthis.thankyou> didnst hastily scribble thusly:
>> ... The thing is, you won't know when that 8-minute clock starts counting
>> ... down. Since nothing can travel faster than the speed of light, your
>> ... first clue that something has happened will be when the countdown
>> ... reaches zero and the earth is flash-fried to a cinder.
>
>> Spoil sport. :((
>
> OK, look on the bright side...
> The sun might not explode/go nova...
> It might just go out...
> Or get mysteriously teleported to some distant corner of the universe by
> powerful aliens (because their sunlamp died)
>
> If that happens, then the first you'll know of it will be 8 minutes later
> when it becomes instant night globally, the earth is wracked by
> earthquakes
> and tsunami as it's unleashed into the void as its gravitational tethers
> are
> cut... It'll also get very cold very quickly, which will be nice at
> chilling
> your champagun.
> :)
>
> In those circumstances, you might have a day to enjoy an entire crate of
> champagun before all the heat has bled into space and the atmpsphere has
> begun to condense.


See, all day to get wasted. By the end of it you won't care it was your
last. :-)

Eva
--
Join the Stargate SG-1 SETI@home Team
http://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/team_display.php?teamid=30516

"Ceremonies have killed religions for they provide the masked comforts to
delusionals..."

Wouter Valentijn <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote:

> Forge wrote:
> > In article <atropos-0886EB.06150204042008@news.giganews.com>,
> > atropos@mac.com says...
> >> In article <MPG.225f49ad775a47b098990c@newsgroups.comcast.net>,
> >> Forge <forge@killallspammers.youneedageek.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> In article <vfsec5-qku.ln1@ponder.sky.com>, spike1@freenet.co.uk
> >>> says...
> >>>> OK, look on the bright side...
> >>>> The sun might not explode/go nova...
> >>>> It might just go out...
> >>>> Or get mysteriously teleported to some distant corner
> >>>> of the universe by powerful aliens (because their sunlamp died)
> >>>
> >>> Suns with the mass that our sun has don't blow up and they
> >>> don't just go out.
> >>
> >> You obviously haven't watched enough Star Trek movies.
> >
> > Heh. Well, you might get a star like ours to blow up if you actually
> > blew it up, say, by messing with gravity or some other manipulation of
> > spacetime. But not with anything we can do with TODAY'S physics.
>
> Or by somehow changing regular matter inside its core into anti-matter.

Or by the infinitely improbable event of all the particles in the sun
simultaneously deciding to be somewhere else - or at least enough of
them that it loses its grip on the planets.

In the sacred domain of alt.tv.stargate-sg1,
Mark Nobles <cmn-nospam@comcast.net> didnst hastily scribble thusly:
>> Or by somehow changing regular matter inside its core into anti-matter.

> Or by the infinitely improbable event of all the particles in the sun
> simultaneously deciding to be somewhere else - or at least enough of
> them that it loses its grip on the planets.

Yep, it's improbable, (almost) infinitely so...
But it's not impossible if quantum physics works as they think it does.
Just have to hope the Heart of Gold doesn't do a fly past any time soon.
--
| |What to do if you find yourself stuck in a crack|
| spike1@freenet.co.uk |in the ground beneath a giant boulder, which you|
| |can't move, with no hope of rescue. |
|Andrew Halliwell BSc(hons)|Consider how lucky you are that life has been |
| in |good to you so far... |
| Computer Science | -The BOOK, Hitch-hiker's guide to the galaxy.|

spike1@freenet.co.uk wrote:
> In the sacred domain of alt.tv.stargate-sg1,
> Mark Nobles <cmn-nospam@comcast.net> didnst hastily scribble thusly:
>>> Or by somehow changing regular matter inside its core into
>>> anti-matter.
>
>> Or by the infinitely improbable event of all the particles in the sun
>> simultaneously deciding to be somewhere else - or at least enough of
>> them that it loses its grip on the planets.
>

Now you're talking! ;-)

> Yep, it's improbable, (almost) infinitely so...
> But it's not impossible if quantum physics works as they think it
> does. Just have to hope the Heart of Gold doesn't do a fly past any
> time soon.

Which they?

--
www.woutervalentijn.net

www.nksf.scifics.com/nksfseries.html

liam=mail

In the sacred domain of alt.tv.stargate-atlantis,
Wouter Valentijn <liam@valentijn.nu> didnst hastily scribble thusly:
> spike1@freenet.co.uk wrote:
>> In the sacred domain of alt.tv.stargate-sg1,
>> Mark Nobles <cmn-nospam@comcast.net> didnst hastily scribble thusly:
>>>> Or by somehow changing regular matter inside its core into
>>>> anti-matter.
>>
>>> Or by the infinitely improbable event of all the particles in the sun
>>> simultaneously deciding to be somewhere else - or at least enough of
>>> them that it loses its grip on the planets.
>>

> Now you're talking! ;-)

>> Yep, it's improbable, (almost) infinitely so...
>> But it's not impossible if quantum physics works as they think it
>> does. Just have to hope the Heart of Gold doesn't do a fly past any
>> time soon.

> Which they?

Hmmm?
Starship heart of gold?
Propulsion: Infinite improbability drive which means when it reaches
infinite improbability, it passes through every point in the universe
simultaneously... and also tends to cause wild improbable events randomly
throughout the universe.
--
__________________________________________________ ____________________________
| spike1@freenet.co.uk | "I'm alive!!! I can touch! I can taste! |
|Andrew Halliwell BSc(hons)| I can SMELL!!! KRYTEN!!! Unpack Rachel and |
| in | get out the puncture repair kit!" |
| Computer Science | Arnold Judas Rimmer- Red Dwarf |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

spike1@freenet.co.uk wrote:
> In the sacred domain of alt.tv.stargate-atlantis,
> Wouter Valentijn <liam@valentijn.nu> didnst hastily scribble thusly:
>> spike1@freenet.co.uk wrote:
>>> In the sacred domain of alt.tv.stargate-sg1,
>>> Mark Nobles <cmn-nospam@comcast.net> didnst hastily scribble thusly:
>>>>> Or by somehow changing regular matter inside its core into
>>>>> anti-matter.
>>>
>>>> Or by the infinitely improbable event of all the particles in the
>>>> sun simultaneously deciding to be somewhere else - or at least
>>>> enough of them that it loses its grip on the planets.
>>>
>
>> Now you're talking! ;-)
>
>>> Yep, it's improbable, (almost) infinitely so...
>>> But it's not impossible if quantum physics works as they think it
>>> does. Just have to hope the Heart of Gold doesn't do a fly past any
>>> time soon.
>
>> Which they?
>
> Hmmm?
> Starship heart of gold?

The they of 'as they think it does'.

> Propulsion: Infinite improbability drive which means when it reaches
> infinite improbability, it passes through every point in the universe
> simultaneously... and also tends to cause wild improbable events
> randomly throughout the universe.

Adams! ;-)

--
www.woutervalentijn.net

www.nksf.scifics.com/nksfseries.html

liam=mail

In article <86jkc5-mdm.ln1@ponder.sky.com>, <spike1@freenet.co.uk> wrote:
>In the sacred domain of alt.tv.stargate-atlantis,
>Wouter Valentijn <liam@valentijn.nu> didnst hastily scribble thusly:
>> spike1@freenet.co.uk wrote:
>>> In the sacred domain of alt.tv.stargate-sg1,
>>> Mark Nobles <cmn-nospam@comcast.net> didnst hastily scribble thusly:
>>>>> Or by somehow changing regular matter inside its core into
>>>>> anti-matter.
>>>
>>>> Or by the infinitely improbable event of all the particles in the sun
>>>> simultaneously deciding to be somewhere else - or at least enough of
>>>> them that it loses its grip on the planets.
>>>
>
>> Now you're talking! ;-)
>
>>> Yep, it's improbable, (almost) infinitely so...
>>> But it's not impossible if quantum physics works as they think it
>>> does. Just have to hope the Heart of Gold doesn't do a fly past any
>>> time soon.
>
>> Which they?
>
>Hmmm?
>Starship heart of gold?
>Propulsion: Infinite improbability drive which means when it reaches
>infinite improbability, it passes through every point in the universe
>simultaneously... and also tends to cause wild improbable events randomly
>throughout the universe.

Which is what happens in hitchhikers guide to the galaxy :)

Jill
--
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++
The colors blend, the edges soften. Swirling and mixing
we are becoming white light.
jill@tuells.org

In the sacred domain of alt.tv.stargate-sg1,
jill <jill@tuells.org> didnst hastily scribble thusly:
>>Hmmm?
>>Starship heart of gold?
>>Propulsion: Infinite improbability drive which means when it reaches
>>infinite improbability, it passes through every point in the universe
>>simultaneously... and also tends to cause wild improbable events randomly
>>throughout the universe.

> Which is what happens in hitchhikers guide to the galaxy :)

Hence the "It might be improbable, almost infinitely so... let's just hope
the heart of gold doesn't do a flypast"...
--
__________________________________________________ ____________________________
| spike1@freenet.co.uk | "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell BSc(hons)| |
| in | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
| Computer Science | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

spike1@freenet.co.uk wrote:
> In the sacred domain of alt.tv.stargate-sg1,
> jill <jill@tuells.org> didnst hastily scribble thusly:
>>> Hmmm?
>>> Starship heart of gold?
>>> Propulsion: Infinite improbability drive which means when it reaches
>>> infinite improbability, it passes through every point in the
>>> universe simultaneously... and also tends to cause wild improbable
>>> events randomly throughout the universe.
>
>> Which is what happens in hitchhikers guide to the galaxy :)
>
> Hence the "It might be improbable, almost infinitely so... let's just
> hope the heart of gold doesn't do a flypast"...

The 'passes though every point in the universe simultaneously' sadly also
reminds me of an episode of Star Trek Voyager named 'Threshold.'. Which in
hindsight might be a tribute to THGTTG.

--
www.woutervalentijn.net

www.nksf.scifics.com/nksfseries.html

liam=mail

In the sacred domain of alt.tv.stargate-sg1,
Wouter Valentijn <liam@valentijn.nu> didnst hastily scribble thusly:
> spike1@freenet.co.uk wrote:
>> In the sacred domain of alt.tv.stargate-sg1,
>> jill <jill@tuells.org> didnst hastily scribble thusly:
>>>> Hmmm?
>>>> Starship heart of gold?
>>>> Propulsion: Infinite improbability drive which means when it reaches
>>>> infinite improbability, it passes through every point in the
>>>> universe simultaneously... and also tends to cause wild improbable
>>>> events randomly throughout the universe.
>>
>>> Which is what happens in hitchhikers guide to the galaxy :)
>>
>> Hence the "It might be improbable, almost infinitely so... let's just
>> hope the heart of gold doesn't do a flypast"...

> The 'passes though every point in the universe simultaneously' sadly also
> reminds me of an episode of Star Trek Voyager named 'Threshold.'. Which in
> hindsight might be a tribute to THGTTG.

Ah yes, the one where Janeway and Tom Paris have kiddies...

--
__________________________________________________ ____________________________
| spike1@freenet.co.uk | |
|Andrew Halliwell BSc(hons)| "ARSE! GERLS!! DRINK! DRINK! DRINK!!!" |
| in | "THAT WOULD BE AN ECUMENICAL MATTER!...FECK!!!! |
| Computer Science | - Father Jack in "Father Ted" |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

spike1@freenet.co.uk wrote:
> In the sacred domain of alt.tv.stargate-sg1,
> Wouter Valentijn <liam@valentijn.nu> didnst hastily scribble thusly:
>> spike1@freenet.co.uk wrote:
>>> In the sacred domain of alt.tv.stargate-sg1,
>>> jill <jill@tuells.org> didnst hastily scribble thusly:
>>>>> Hmmm?
>>>>> Starship heart of gold?
>>>>> Propulsion: Infinite improbability drive which means when it
>>>>> reaches infinite improbability, it passes through every point in
>>>>> the universe simultaneously... and also tends to cause wild
>>>>> improbable events randomly throughout the universe.
>>>
>>>> Which is what happens in hitchhikers guide to the galaxy :)
>>>
>>> Hence the "It might be improbable, almost infinitely so... let's
>>> just hope the heart of gold doesn't do a flypast"...
>
>> The 'passes though every point in the universe simultaneously' sadly
>> also reminds me of an episode of Star Trek Voyager named
>> 'Threshold.'. Which in hindsight might be a tribute to THGTTG.
>
> Ah yes, the one where Janeway and Tom Paris have kiddies...
>

Maybe the most logical romance of ST Voy.


--
www.woutervalentijn.net

www.nksf.scifics.com/nksfseries.html

liam=mail

[Default] Thus spake "Eva" <eva1removethis@ukonline.co.uk>:

>"Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1b_nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:HcWdna6MotpGZ3LanZ2dnUVZ_o3inZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>
><snip>
>
>> -- Ken from Chicago (who notes a supercollider is basically a giant
>> circle)
>
>Basically.
>
>Eva

Had the US not screwed the pooch many years ago, we would already have
done this in the US. There are several dozen deep holes in the Texas
prarie near Hillsboro that were dug for the Superconducting Super
Collider. We could have ended the universe ten years ago!!!!

[Default] Thus spake Thanatos <atropos@mac.com>:

>In article <HcWdna6MotpGZ3LanZ2dnUVZ_o3inZ2d@comcast.com>,
> "Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1b_nospam@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> > Last Friday, Wagner and another critic of the LHC's safety measures,
>> > Luis Sancho, filed a lawsuit in Hawaii's U.S. District Court. The suit
>> > calls on the U.S. Department of Energy, Fermilab, the National Science
>> > Foundation and CERN to ease up on their LHC preparations for several
>> > months while the collider's safety was reassessed.
>
>What jurisdiction does a U.S. federal court have over a scientific
>project in Switzerland?

It's worth noting that several previous suits that one of these
nutcases have filed have been tossed and at least once he's been
sanctioned by the judge. Maybe next time he should be sanctioned by
Eastwood.

On Mar 30, 1:40 pm, "Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1b_nos...@comcast.net>
wrote:
> "David E. Powell" <David_Powell3...@msn.com> wrote in messagenews:4199c96f-2a06-4724-8ca1-3b0ae54319be@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> >http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23844529/?GT1=43001
>
> > Doomsday fears spark lawsuit over collider
> > Critics worry about mini-black holes, strangelets; experts reject
> > claims
> > A hardhat worker is dwarfed by the inner workings of the Large Hadron
> > Collider's ATLAS detector, deep beneath the French-Swiss border.
> > View related photos
> > EIROforum / CERN
>
> > FREE VIDEO
>
> > Secrets of the universe
> > March 1, 2007: Scientists are edging closer to launching an experiment
> > designed to uncover the origins of the universe, known as the Large
> > Hadron Collider.
> > NBC News Web Extra
>
> >  Related stories     What's this?
> > Smash! The search for 'sparticles'
>
> > By Alan Boyle
> > Science editor
> > MSNBC
> > updated 11:23 a.m. ET, Fri., March. 28, 2008
>
> > Alan Boyle
> > Science editor
>
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------­-----
>
> > * Profile
> > * E-mail
>
> > The builders of the world's biggest particle collider are being sued
> > in federal court over fears that the experiment might create globe-
> > gobbling black holes or never-before-seen strains of matter that would
> > destroy the planet.
>
> > Representatives at Fermilab in Illinois and at Europe's CERN
> > laboratory, two of the defendants in the case, say there's no chance
> > that the Large Hadron Collider would cause such cosmic catastrophes.
> > Nevertheless, they're bracing to defend themselves in the courtroom as
> > well as the court of public opinion.
>
> > The Large Hadron Collider, or LHC, is due for startup later this year
> > at CERN's headquarters on the French-Swiss border. It's expected to
> > tackle some of the deepest questions in science: Is the foundation of
> > modern physics right or wrong? What existed during the very first
> > moment of the universe's existence? Why do some particles have mass
> > while others don't? What is the nature of dark matter? Are there extra
> > dimensions of space out there that we haven't yet detected?
>
> > Some folks outside the scientific mainstream have asked darker
> > questions as well: Could the collider create mini-black holes that
> > last long enough and get big enough to turn into a matter-sucking
> > maelstrom? Could exotic particles known as magnetic monopoles throw
> > atomic nuclei out of whack? Could quarks recombine into "strangelets"
> > that would turn the whole Earth into one big lump of exotic matter?
>
> > Former nuclear safety officer Walter Wagner has been raising such
> > questions for years - first about an earlier-generation "big bang
> > machine" known as the Relativistic Heavy-Ion Collider, and more
> > recently about the LHC.
>
> > Last Friday, Wagner and another critic of the LHC's safety measures,
> > Luis Sancho, filed a lawsuit in Hawaii's U.S. District Court. The suit
> > calls on the U.S. Department of Energy, Fermilab, the National Science
> > Foundation and CERN to ease up on their LHC preparations for several
> > months while the collider's safety was reassessed.
>
> > "We're going to need a minimum of four months to review whatever
> > they're putting out," Wagner told me on Monday. The suit seeks a
> > temporary restraining order that would put the LHC on hold, pending
> > the release and review of an updated CERN safety assessment. It also
> > calls on the U.S. government to do a full environmental review
> > addressing the LHC project, including the debate over the doomsday
> > scenario.
>
> > On Monday, District Judge Helen Gillmor assigned the case to a
> > magistrate judge, Kevin S.C. Chang, for an initial conference on June
> > 16. Wagner said he planned to ask for a more immediate hearing on the
> > request for a restraining order - that is, once he has served the
> > federal government with the court papers.
>
> > The case is currently being handled by the U.S. attorney's office in
> > Hawaii, where Wagner and Sancho both live,`but that may not
> > necessarily be where the legal proceedings end up. The Justice
> > Department's Environmental and Natural Resources Division, based in
> > Washington, is also being brought in on the case, assistant U.S.
> > attorney Derrick Watson told me in an e-mail Wednesday.
>
> > In Washington, Justice Department spokesman Andrew Ames noted that the
> > court papers had not yet been received. "We don't have any comment,"
> > he told me Thursday. "We'll comment in court when it's appropriate."
>
> > Debating doomsday
> > The defense attorneys would likely dwell on the regulatory and
> > procedural questions rather than the worries over a cosmic
> > catastrophe. Those worries have been around for years, and most
> > physicists have scoffed at them for almost as long. The doomsday
> > scenarios raised by Sancho and Wagner include:
>
> > Runaway black holes: Some physicists say the LHC could create
> > microscopic black holes that would hang around for just a tiny
> > fraction of a second and then decay. Sancho and Wagner worry that
> > millions of black holes might somehow persist and coalesce into a
> > compact gravitational mass that would draw in other matter and grow
> > bigger. That's pure science fiction, said Michio Kaku, a theoretical
> > physicist at the City College of New York. "These black holes don't
> > live very long, and they have microscopic energy, and so they are
> > harmless," he told me.
>
> > Strangelets: Smashing protons together at high enough energies could
> > create new combinations of quarks, the particles that protons are made
> > of. Sancho and Wagner worry that a nasty combination known as a
> > stable, negatively charged strangelet could theoretically turn
> > everything it touches into strangelets as well. Kaku compared this to
> > the ancient myth of the Midas touch. "We see no evidence of this
> > bizarre theory," he said. "Once in a while, we trot it out to scare
> > the pants off people. But it's not serious."
>
> > Magnetic monopoles: One theory suggests that high-energy particle
> > collisions might give rise to massive particles that have only one
> > magnetic pole - only north, or only south, but not the north-south
> > magnetism that dominates nature. Sancho and Wagner worry that such
> > particles could be created in the LHC and start a runaway reaction
> > that converts atoms into other forms of matter. But physicists have
> > seen no evidence of such reactions, which should have occurred already
> > as the result of more energetic cosmic-ray collisions in Earth's upper
> > atmosphere.
> > The cosmic-ray argument has been applied to the black-hole and
> > strangelet scenarios as well. If such dangerous things can be created,
> > why haven't they already eaten up Earth, along with other planets,
> > stars or whole galaxies in the billions of years since the universe
> > arose? To answer that question, Sancho and Wagner pose a
> > counterargument: Perhaps cosmic-ray collisions really are creating
> > tiny black holes or strangelets, but those little bits of doomsday zip
> > by too fast to cause any trouble. In the LHC, they say, the bad stuff
> > could hang around long enough to be captured by Earth's gravity and
> > set off a catastrophe.
>
> > In response, particle physicists are developing counter-
> > counterarguments -  based on their theoretical work as well as data
> > from astronomical observations and experiments at the Relativistic
> > Heavy-Ion Collider. For instance, the physicists would say that enough
> > of the doomsday particles still should have been captured by neutron
> > stars or cosmic gas clouds to have an impact. No such impact has ever
> > been seen. Therefore, no doomsday.
>
> > CERN spokesman James Gillies told me that a 2003 assessment of the
> > doomsday scenarios was being updated with the new information. Release
> > of that updated report - the one that Sancho and Wagner apparently
> > have been waiting for - is "imminent," Gillies told me.
>
> > Questions about the doomsday scenarios may well come up at CERN on
> > April 6, during a public open house at the LHC. Some researchers have
> > gotten the word to be prepared to talk about microscopic black holes
> > and strangelets if asked.
>
> > Reality check
> > Saying something is absolutely impossible doesn't always come easy.
> > Some scientists find it difficult to state categorically that such-and-
> > such a theoretical catastrophe has no chance of happening, and
> > Fermilab spokeswoman Judy Jackson told me that the doomsayers have
> > "cynically distorted" that natural reluctance to rule out even the
> > most outlandish theoretical possibilities.
>
> > The doomsaying can continue as long as scientists hold out even a tiny
> > sliver of uncertainty. Jackson cited the example of Paul Dixon, a
> > psychology professor at the University of Hawaii at Hilo who has been
> > saying for more than a decade that experiments at Fermilab's Tevatron
> > accelerator are in danger of touching off an artificial supernova.
> > Dixon is still going strong: He submitted an affidavit in support of
> > the LHC lawsuit filed by Sancho and Wagner.
>
> > The current lawsuit could well be decided not by scientific arguments
> > but rather by narrower regulatory issues. On that point, Jackson said
> > that Fermilab has followed U.S. environmental regulations, just as
> > CERN has followed European regulations. "Of course there are plenty of
> > environmental laws and regulations, and they have all been followed to
> > the letter," she said.
>
> > However, Jackson said CERN shouldn't be held to U.S. requirements when
> > it comes to operating the LHC - even if the collider happens to be
> > using magnets built by Fermilab. "Just because we built them doesn't
> > mean we have any say over French environmental regulations," she said.
>
> > For his part, Wagner said he hoped Fermilab and the other defendants
> > in the lawsuit would take another look at the doomsday scenarios - and
> > speculated that a restraining order might not even be necessary. He
> > noted that the startup schedule for the LHC has been repeatedly
> > delayed, which would give more time for further safety assessments.
> > (CERN's schedule currently calls for first
>
> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


Isn't this the same thread that said the A/H bombs would "Ignite the
Atmosphere!..."?


TBerk

In article <kt7iv35j5m6hrfbmsd7874an3mo18shj8p@4ax.com>,
Dillon Pyron <invaliddmpyron@austin.rr.com> wrote:

> [Default] Thus spake "Eva" <eva1removethis@ukonline.co.uk>:
>
> >"Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1b_nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message
> >news:HcWdna6MotpGZ3LanZ2dnUVZ_o3inZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> >
> ><snip>
> >
> >> -- Ken from Chicago (who notes a supercollider is basically a giant
> >> circle)
> >
> >Basically.
> >
> >Eva
>
> Had the US not screwed the pooch many years ago, we would already have
> done this in the US. There are several dozen deep holes in the Texas
> prarie near Hillsboro that were dug for the Superconducting Super
> Collider.

There aren't just holes. They actually built most of the circular tunnel
ring. When the project was canceled, I always thought they should have
used the existing tunnel as a prison. It could have housed hundreds of
thousands of inmates.

In article <atropos-B67A93.06190307042008@news.giganews.com>,
Thanatos <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

> In article <kt7iv35j5m6hrfbmsd7874an3mo18shj8p@4ax.com>,
> Dillon Pyron <invaliddmpyron@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > [Default] Thus spake "Eva" <eva1removethis@ukonline.co.uk>:
> >
> > >"Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1b_nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message
> > >news:HcWdna6MotpGZ3LanZ2dnUVZ_o3inZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> > >
> > ><snip>
> > >
> > >> -- Ken from Chicago (who notes a supercollider is basically a giant
> > >> circle)
> > >
> > >Basically.
> > >
> > >Eva
> >
> > Had the US not screwed the pooch many years ago, we would already have
> > done this in the US. There are several dozen deep holes in the Texas
> > prarie near Hillsboro that were dug for the Superconducting Super
> > Collider.
>
> There aren't just holes. They actually built most of the circular tunnel
> ring. When the project was canceled, I always thought they should have
> used the existing tunnel as a prison. It could have housed hundreds of
> thousands of inmates.

Single file. :)

--
Star Trek 09:

No Shat, No Show.
http://www.disneysub.com/board/noshat.jpg

In article <ANIM8Rfsk-3393CA.07433407042008@news.west.cox.net>,
Anim8rFSK <ANIM8Rfsk@cox.net> wrote:

> In article <atropos-B67A93.06190307042008@news.giganews.com>,
> Thanatos <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>
> > In article <kt7iv35j5m6hrfbmsd7874an3mo18shj8p@4ax.com>,
> > Dillon Pyron <invaliddmpyron@austin.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> > > [Default] Thus spake "Eva" <eva1removethis@ukonline.co.uk>:
> > >
> > > >"Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1b_nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message
> > > >news:HcWdna6MotpGZ3LanZ2dnUVZ_o3inZ2d@comca