By MICHAEL HINMAN
Source: TrekWeb
Apr-09-2008

This story contains MINOR SPOILERS for the upcoming film "Star Trek."

Yesterday, a car accident near the set exposed the fact that J.J. Abrams
was in town filming scenes for his upcoming "Star Trek" movie in
Bakersfield, Calif. But what convinced him to travel a hundred miles
from Los Angeles?

"Star Trek" executive producer Jeffery Chernoz told KGET-Channel 17 that
the site they're using to film scenes looks a lot like Capt. Kirk's home
state of Iowa, and it was a great way to get those scenes in without
actually having to make the trip to Iowa.

"We wanted something that looked like Iowa, and we also wanted to stay
close to Los Angeles," Chernoz said. "So, we came out here and scouted
and realized that we can kind of make Iowa out of Bakersfield."

Bakersfield is located about equidistant from Los Angeles and Fresno, a
city of more than 300,000 people who have had their fair share of
television and movie filming in the past including the CBS series
"Jericho" as well as the film "The Running Man."

"We often market ourselves as Hollywood's back lot to the north," said
Rick Davis, a member of the Kern County Board of Trustees, about
Bakersfield. "We've also been very proud of the fact that if you were
going to shoot a movie in Maine and end up in Los Angeles, every scene
you would need, we have here in Kern County."

The filming will provide a $2 million influx into the Kern County
economy, Davis said, from local casting of extras and other expenses.

TrekMovie says their spies have spotted a 1960s red Corvette convertible
in the location shoot that is likely being used for the film, but it's
not quite clear how that would tie into scenes being shot there.

"Star Trek" is gearing up for a May 2009 release.

http://www.syfyportal.com/news424923.html


--
Steven L.
Email: sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net
Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

Steven L. wrote:
> TrekMovie says their spies have spotted a 1960s red Corvette convertible
> in the location shoot that is likely being used for the film, but it's
> not quite clear how that would tie into scenes being shot there.

It better not be Kirk's because he never drove a car until Piece Of The
Action.

ToolPackinMama wrote:
> Steven L. wrote:
>> TrekMovie says their spies have spotted a 1960s red Corvette
>> convertible in the location shoot that is likely being used for the
>> film, but it's not quite clear how that would tie into scenes being
>> shot there.
>
> It better not be Kirk's because he never drove a car until Piece Of
> The Action.

Indeed!
And it was one of the few things he wasn't very good at.
If it is 'Kirk'... Well, it is /not/ the original universe. Even the
remastered episodes are /not/ the original universe with those canon
changes.

--
www.woutervalentijn.net

www.nksf.scifics.com/nksfseries.html

liam=mail

"Wouter Valentijn" <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote in message
news:47fe5238$0$14358$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
> ToolPackinMama wrote:
>> Steven L. wrote:
>>> TrekMovie says their spies have spotted a 1960s red Corvette
>>> convertible in the location shoot that is likely being used for the
>>> film, but it's not quite clear how that would tie into scenes being
>>> shot there.
>>
>> It better not be Kirk's because he never drove a car until Piece Of
>> The Action.
>
> Indeed!
> And it was one of the few things he wasn't very good at.
> If it is 'Kirk'... Well, it is /not/ the original universe. Even the
> remastered episodes are /not/ the original universe with those canon
> changes.


Yet more Fanon. No where was it categorically stated that Kirk had never
driven a car.
But then again this is from a woman that can't believe two men can be close
friends with out being lovers.
--

Qapla'
Kweeg
Ten of Canadian Clubs in the Eeeevil Trek Cabal
"Half a gallon a'scotch!" Scotty (Spectre of the Gun)
1,079,252,848.8 km/h, not just a good idea, it's the law.
"So say we all!"

ToolPackinMama <philnblanc@comcast.net> wrote in
news:b6idnbEF2-6f02PanZ2dnUVZ_hWdnZ2d@comcast.com:

> Steven L. wrote:
>> TrekMovie says their spies have spotted a 1960s red Corvette
>> convertible in the location shoot that is likely being used for the
>> film, but it's not quite clear how that would tie into scenes being
>> shot there.
>
> It better not be Kirk's because he never drove a car until Piece Of
> The Action.

That's right and he clearly didn't know how to drive.

Gisele

Wouter Valentijn wrote:
> ToolPackinMama wrote:
>> Steven L. wrote:
>>> TrekMovie says their spies have spotted a 1960s red Corvette
>>> convertible in the location shoot that is likely being used for the
>>> film, but it's not quite clear how that would tie into scenes being
>>> shot there.
>> It better not be Kirk's because he never drove a car until Piece Of
>> The Action.
>
> Indeed!
> And it was one of the few things he wasn't very good at.

Right you are, he sucked at it.

:)

Kweeg wrote:

> Yet more Fanon. No where was it categorically stated that Kirk had never
> driven a car.

Have you SEEN "A piece of the action"? Do you remember the scene where
he drove?

Wheels, Mr. Spock.

A flivver, Captain.
Key in the ignition. Turn the ignition on ...
and nothing happens. Where's the starter? There's the starter.[Engine
Starts] Yes!

Interesting.

[Grinding]

Oops! Gears.

Yes. Oh, I believe they had a device known as a ... clutch. Clutch,
Captain. Perhaps one of those pedals on the floor.

I kind of like this. I'm going to get one myself.

[Crash]

[Backfiring]

[Honk]

Captain, you are an excellent starship commander. But as a taxi driver,
you leave much to be desired.

===

OK, Kweeg, explain how me saying Kirk couldn't drive is "fanon"?
Everything you say only makes me look good, keep talking.

bc_gisele wrote:
> ToolPackinMama <philnblanc@comcast.net> wrote in
> news:b6idnbEF2-6f02PanZ2dnUVZ_hWdnZ2d@comcast.com:
>
>> Steven L. wrote:
>>> TrekMovie says their spies have spotted a 1960s red Corvette
>>> convertible in the location shoot that is likely being used for the
>>> film, but it's not quite clear how that would tie into scenes being
>>> shot there.
>> It better not be Kirk's because he never drove a car until Piece Of
>> The Action.
>
> That's right and he clearly didn't know how to drive.

That's right he didn't. Expected the thing to just turn on. Didn't
know what a clutch was. Had only a vague idea about gears. Spock
criticized his driving, saying,

"Captain, you are an excellent starship commander. But as a taxi driver,
you leave much to be desired."

Kirk couldn't drive. That was obviously his first hands-on experience
with a 20th century style automobile.

Isn't it fun to be right Gisele? I love being right, don't you!? :)

Now if only Kweeg would get with the program... I mean actually WATCH
the program.

Kweeg wrote:
> "Wouter Valentijn" <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote in message
> news:47fe5238$0$14358$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
>> ToolPackinMama wrote:
>>> Steven L. wrote:
>>>> TrekMovie says their spies have spotted a 1960s red Corvette
>>>> convertible in the location shoot that is likely being used for the
>>>> film, but it's not quite clear how that would tie into scenes being
>>>> shot there.
>>>
>>> It better not be Kirk's because he never drove a car until Piece Of
>>> The Action.
>>
>> Indeed!
>> And it was one of the few things he wasn't very good at.
>> If it is 'Kirk'... Well, it is /not/ the original universe. Even the
>> remastered episodes are /not/ the original universe with those canon
>> changes.
>
>
> Yet more Fanon. No where was it categorically stated that Kirk had
> never driven a car.
> But then again this is from a woman that can't believe two men can be
> close friends with out being lovers.

It is based on this scene:
[Honk]
Wheels, Mr. Spock.
A fliwer, Captain.
Key in the ignition. Turn the ignition on ...
and nothing happens. Where's the starter?
There's the starter.
[Engine Starts]
Yes!
Interesting.
[Grinding]
Oops!
Gears.
Yes. Oh ...
I believe they had a device
known as a ... clutch.
Clutch, Captain.
Perhaps one of those pedals on the floor.
I kind of like this.
I'm going to get one myself.
[Crash]
[Backfiring]
[Honk]
Captain, you are an excellent starship commander.
But as a taxi driver,
you leave much to be desired.

From this conversation between Kirk and Spock I think it is clear that
driving a car (at least with a hand controled transmission) is not something
Kirk experienced before.

--
www.woutervalentijn.net

www.nksf.scifics.com/nksfseries.html

liam=mail

ToolPackinMama wrote:
> Wouter Valentijn wrote:
>> ToolPackinMama wrote:
>>> Steven L. wrote:
>>>> TrekMovie says their spies have spotted a 1960s red Corvette
>>>> convertible in the location shoot that is likely being used for the
>>>> film, but it's not quite clear how that would tie into scenes being
>>>> shot there.
>>> It better not be Kirk's because he never drove a car until Piece Of
>>> The Action.
>>
>> Indeed!
>> And it was one of the few things he wasn't very good at.
>
> Right you are, he sucked at it.
>
> :)

He's forgiven.


--
www.woutervalentijn.net

www.nksf.scifics.com/nksfseries.html

liam=mail

"Wouter Valentijn" <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote in message
news:47fe77d9$0$14357$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
> Kweeg wrote:
>> "Wouter Valentijn" <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote in message
>> news:47fe5238$0$14358$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
>>> ToolPackinMama wrote:
>>>> Steven L. wrote:
>>>>> TrekMovie says their spies have spotted a 1960s red Corvette
>>>>> convertible in the location shoot that is likely being used for the
>>>>> film, but it's not quite clear how that would tie into scenes being
>>>>> shot there.
>>>>
>>>> It better not be Kirk's because he never drove a car until Piece Of
>>>> The Action.
>>>
>>> Indeed!
>>> And it was one of the few things he wasn't very good at.
>>> If it is 'Kirk'... Well, it is /not/ the original universe. Even the
>>> remastered episodes are /not/ the original universe with those canon
>>> changes.
>>
>>
>> Yet more Fanon. No where was it categorically stated that Kirk had
>> never driven a car.
>> But then again this is from a woman that can't believe two men can be
>> close friends with out being lovers.
>
> It is based on this scene:
> [Honk]
> Wheels, Mr. Spock.
> A fliwer, Captain.
> Key in the ignition. Turn the ignition on ...
> and nothing happens. Where's the starter?
> There's the starter.
> [Engine Starts]
> Yes!
> Interesting.
> [Grinding]
> Oops!
> Gears.
> Yes. Oh ...
> I believe they had a device
> known as a ... clutch.
> Clutch, Captain.
> Perhaps one of those pedals on the floor.
> I kind of like this.
> I'm going to get one myself.
> [Crash]
> [Backfiring]
> [Honk]
> Captain, you are an excellent starship commander.
> But as a taxi driver,
> you leave much to be desired.
>
> From this conversation between Kirk and Spock I think it is clear that
> driving a car (at least with a hand controled transmission) is not
> something Kirk experienced before.


Put most people in a "vintage" car today that have only driven modern
vehicles and see how well they do, especially if they have never driven
stick.

--

Qapla'
Kweeg
Ten of Canadian Clubs in the Eeeevil Trek Cabal
"Half a gallon a'scotch!" Scotty (Spectre of the Gun)
1,079,252,848.8 km/h, not just a good idea, it's the law.
"So say we all!"

In article <oYuLj.41276$Cj7.31720@pd7urf2no>, "Kweeg" <kweeg@nospam.shaw.ca> wrote:
>"Wouter Valentijn" <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote in message
>news:47fe77d9$0$14357$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
>> Kweeg wrote:
>>> "Wouter Valentijn" <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote in message
>>> news:47fe5238$0$14358$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
>>>> ToolPackinMama wrote:
>>>>> Steven L. wrote:
>>>>>> TrekMovie says their spies have spotted a 1960s red Corvette
>>>>>> convertible in the location shoot that is likely being used for the
>>>>>> film, but it's not quite clear how that would tie into scenes being
>>>>>> shot there.
>>>>>
>>>>> It better not be Kirk's because he never drove a car until Piece Of
>>>>> The Action.
>>>>
>>>> Indeed!
>>>> And it was one of the few things he wasn't very good at.
>>>> If it is 'Kirk'... Well, it is /not/ the original universe. Even the
>>>> remastered episodes are /not/ the original universe with those canon
>>>> changes.
>>>
>>>
>>> Yet more Fanon. No where was it categorically stated that Kirk had
>>> never driven a car.
>>> But then again this is from a woman that can't believe two men can be
>>> close friends with out being lovers.
>>
>> It is based on this scene:
>> [Honk]
>> Wheels, Mr. Spock.
>> A fliwer, Captain.
>> Key in the ignition. Turn the ignition on ...
>> and nothing happens. Where's the starter?
>> There's the starter.
>> [Engine Starts]
>> Yes!
>> Interesting.
>> [Grinding]
>> Oops!
>> Gears.
>> Yes. Oh ...
>> I believe they had a device
>> known as a ... clutch.
>> Clutch, Captain.
>> Perhaps one of those pedals on the floor.
>> I kind of like this.
>> I'm going to get one myself.
>> [Crash]
>> [Backfiring]
>> [Honk]
>> Captain, you are an excellent starship commander.
>> But as a taxi driver,
>> you leave much to be desired.
>>
>> From this conversation between Kirk and Spock I think it is clear that
>> driving a car (at least with a hand controled transmission) is not
>> something Kirk experienced before.
>
>
>Put most people in a "vintage" car today that have only driven modern
>vehicles and see how well they do, especially if they have never driven
>stick.
>

I cant believe any High School Drivers Ed course can even pass kids and not
require teaching them stick.

While intrepidly exploring the bowels of USENET on Thursday, April 10,
2008, ToolPackinMama rolled initiative and posted the following:

> Steven L. wrote:
>> TrekMovie says their spies have spotted a 1960s red Corvette convertible
>> in the location shoot that is likely being used for the film, but it's
>> not quite clear how that would tie into scenes being shot there.
>
> It better not be Kirk's because he never drove a car until Piece Of The
> Action.

Actually, what's clear from the script is that he'd not driven with a
standard transmission until then. He appears to steer ok, once he gets
it into gear.

In the mid-60s, you could actually get an automatic transmission in a
Vette. And Kirk does have a known penchant for antiques.

--
Derek

"Your life story would not make a good book. Don't even try." -- Fran
Lebowitz

While intrepidly exploring the bowels of USENET on Thursday, April 10,
2008, ToolPackinMama rolled initiative and posted the following:

> Kweeg wrote:
>
>> Yet more Fanon. No where was it categorically stated that Kirk had never
>> driven a car.
>
> Have you SEEN "A piece of the action"? Do you remember the scene where
> he drove?
>
> Wheels, Mr. Spock.
>
> A flivver, Captain.
> Key in the ignition. Turn the ignition on ...
> and nothing happens. Where's the starter? There's the starter.[Engine
> Starts] Yes!

Clearly demonstrating that he knew that if a car didn't start when you
turned the key that you had to look for a starter button/switch.

How many drivers today do you think would know to look for a starter?

> Interesting.
>
> [Grinding]
>
> Oops! Gears.
>
> Yes. Oh, I believe they had a device known as a ... clutch. Clutch,
> Captain. Perhaps one of those pedals on the floor.

Ever seen someone drive with a manual transmission for the first time?
Looks rather similar to POTA, even if they're experienced with an
automatic transmission.

> I kind of like this. I'm going to get one myself.
>
> [Crash]
>
> [Backfiring]
>
> [Honk]
>
> Captain, you are an excellent starship commander. But as a taxi driver,
> you leave much to be desired.
>
> ===
>
> OK, Kweeg, explain how me saying Kirk couldn't drive is "fanon"?
> Everything you say only makes me look good, keep talking.

Fanon or not, the claim does ignore the knowledge Kirk demonstrates,
even if he's going to rip that clutch from the transmission.

--
Derek

A friend asks only for your time, not your money.

ToolPackinMama wrote:
> Wouter Valentijn wrote:
>> ToolPackinMama wrote:
>>> Steven L. wrote:
>>>> TrekMovie says their spies have spotted a 1960s red Corvette
>>>> convertible in the location shoot that is likely being used for the
>>>> film, but it's not quite clear how that would tie into scenes being
>>>> shot there.
>>> It better not be Kirk's because he never drove a car until Piece Of
>>> The Action.
>>
>> Indeed!
>> And it was one of the few things he wasn't very good at.
>
> Right you are, he sucked at it.

He was better at driving than I was the first time I got behind the
wheel at age 17.


--
Steven L.
Email: sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net
Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

Derek wrote:
> While intrepidly exploring the bowels of USENET on Thursday, April 10,
> 2008, ToolPackinMama rolled initiative and posted the following:
>
>> Steven L. wrote:
>>> TrekMovie says their spies have spotted a 1960s red Corvette convertible
>>> in the location shoot that is likely being used for the film, but it's
>>> not quite clear how that would tie into scenes being shot there.
>> It better not be Kirk's because he never drove a car until Piece Of The
>> Action.
>
> Actually, what's clear from the script is that he'd not driven with a
> standard transmission until then. He appears to steer ok, once he gets
> it into gear.
>
> In the mid-60s, you could actually get an automatic transmission in a
> Vette. And Kirk does have a known penchant for antiques.

Yep. Young Kirk might not have been driving the antique Corvette, just
restoring it.



--
Steven L.
Email: sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net
Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

"Derek" <news@gwinn.us> wrote in message news:1esuxtgutumrh$.dlg@gwinn.us...
> While intrepidly exploring the bowels of USENET on Thursday, April 10,
> 2008, ToolPackinMama rolled initiative and posted the following:
>
>> Kweeg wrote:
>>
>>> Yet more Fanon. No where was it categorically stated that Kirk had never
>>> driven a car.
>>
>> Have you SEEN "A piece of the action"? Do you remember the scene where
>> he drove?
>>
>> Wheels, Mr. Spock.
>>
>> A flivver, Captain.
>> Key in the ignition. Turn the ignition on ...
>> and nothing happens. Where's the starter? There's the starter.[Engine
>> Starts] Yes!
>
> Clearly demonstrating that he knew that if a car didn't start when you
> turned the key that you had to look for a starter button/switch.
>
> How many drivers today do you think would know to look for a starter?
>
>> Interesting.
>>
>> [Grinding]
>>
>> Oops! Gears.
>>
>> Yes. Oh, I believe they had a device known as a ... clutch. Clutch,
>> Captain. Perhaps one of those pedals on the floor.
>
> Ever seen someone drive with a manual transmission for the first time?
> Looks rather similar to POTA, even if they're experienced with an
> automatic transmission.
>
>> I kind of like this. I'm going to get one myself.
>>
>> [Crash]
>>
>> [Backfiring]
>>
>> [Honk]
>>
>> Captain, you are an excellent starship commander. But as a taxi driver,
>> you leave much to be desired.
>>
>> ===
>>
>> OK, Kweeg, explain how me saying Kirk couldn't drive is "fanon"?
>> Everything you say only makes me look good, keep talking.
>
> Fanon or not, the claim does ignore the knowledge Kirk demonstrates,
> even if he's going to rip that clutch from the transmission.


Indeed.
TPM ignores facts (as well as out and out denying them) when they are
inconvenient or do not suit her needs for her flimsy theories.
No amount of actual facts and logical debate will convince her other wise.
Sorta like arguing with a 4 year old.
--

Qapla'
Kweeg
Ten of Canadian Clubs in the Eeeevil Trek Cabal
"Half a gallon a'scotch!" Scotty (Spectre of the Gun)
1,079,252,848.8 km/h, not just a good idea, it's the law.
"So say we all!"

Kweeg wrote:
> "Wouter Valentijn" <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote in message
> news:47fe5238$0$14358$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
>> ToolPackinMama wrote:
>>> Steven L. wrote:
>>>> TrekMovie says their spies have spotted a 1960s red Corvette
>>>> convertible in the location shoot that is likely being used for the
>>>> film, but it's not quite clear how that would tie into scenes being
>>>> shot there.
>>>
>>> It better not be Kirk's because he never drove a car until Piece Of
>>> The Action.
>>
>> Indeed!
>> And it was one of the few things he wasn't very good at.
>> If it is 'Kirk'... Well, it is /not/ the original universe. Even the
>> remastered episodes are /not/ the original universe with those canon
>> changes.
>
>
> Yet more Fanon. No where was it categorically stated that Kirk had
> never driven a car.

I have to disagree with you on this one, Kweeg. I think a fair
interpretation of that script as written is that automobiles are an
"ancient" device with which Kirk is aware in a historical sense, but he's
never driven one before. A bit like one of us finding ourselves in Victorian
times and having to drive a horse and buggy. We'd sort of know some stuff
about it, like steering with the reins and saying "woah", but would have no
practical experience of it. Most of us, anyway.

I think it's a pretty safe bet that the Trek level of technology would have
rendered the internal combustion engine obsolete.


Ian

--
http://www.jaxtrawstudios.com
sci-fi comics with shagging in

While intrepidly exploring the bowels of USENET on Thursday, April 10,
2008, Steven L. rolled initiative and posted the following:

> Derek wrote:
>> While intrepidly exploring the bowels of USENET on Thursday, April 10,
>> 2008, ToolPackinMama rolled initiative and posted the following:
>>
>>> Steven L. wrote:
>>>> TrekMovie says their spies have spotted a 1960s red Corvette convertible
>>>> in the location shoot that is likely being used for the film, but it's
>>>> not quite clear how that would tie into scenes being shot there.
>>> It better not be Kirk's because he never drove a car until Piece Of The
>>> Action.
>>
>> Actually, what's clear from the script is that he'd not driven with a
>> standard transmission until then. He appears to steer ok, once he gets
>> it into gear.
>>
>> In the mid-60s, you could actually get an automatic transmission in a
>> Vette. And Kirk does have a known penchant for antiques.
>
> Yep. Young Kirk might not have been driving the antique Corvette, just
> restoring it.

I had another idea while mowing the lawn. Admittedly, it's a stretch
but here it is.

We know Kirk likes antiques. What's the possibility that the Vette (if
actually included in the film) gets described as the 23rd century
equivalent of a "kit car"? That is, it looks like it was made in 1964,
but doesn't run on a fossil fuel.

--
Derek

A bachelor is a man whom women are still sampling.

While intrepidly exploring the bowels of USENET on Thursday, April 10,
2008, Jaxtraw rolled initiative and posted the following:

> Kweeg wrote:
>> "Wouter Valentijn" <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote in message
>> news:47fe5238$0$14358$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
>>> ToolPackinMama wrote:
>>>> Steven L. wrote:
>>>>> TrekMovie says their spies have spotted a 1960s red Corvette
>>>>> convertible in the location shoot that is likely being used for the
>>>>> film, but it's not quite clear how that would tie into scenes being
>>>>> shot there.
>>>>
>>>> It better not be Kirk's because he never drove a car until Piece Of
>>>> The Action.
>>>
>>> Indeed!
>>> And it was one of the few things he wasn't very good at.
>>> If it is 'Kirk'... Well, it is /not/ the original universe. Even the
>>> remastered episodes are /not/ the original universe with those canon
>>> changes.
>>
>>
>> Yet more Fanon. No where was it categorically stated that Kirk had
>> never driven a car.
>
> I have to disagree with you on this one, Kweeg. I think a fair
> interpretation of that script as written is that automobiles are an
> "ancient" device with which Kirk is aware in a historical sense, but he's
> never driven one before. A bit like one of us finding ourselves in Victorian
> times and having to drive a horse and buggy. We'd sort of know some stuff
> about it, like steering with the reins and saying "woah", but would have no
> practical experience of it. Most of us, anyway.
>
> I think it's a pretty safe bet that the Trek level of technology would have
> rendered the internal combustion engine obsolete.
>
>
> Ian

The internal combustion engine rendered the steam engine obsolete,
also. But that doesn't mean people don't still collect, repair,
rebuild and show them off.

--
Derek

"Our great democracies still tend to think that a stupid man is more
likely to be honest than a clever man." -- Bertrand Russell

Derek wrote:
> While intrepidly exploring the bowels of USENET on Thursday, April 10,
> 2008, Jaxtraw rolled initiative and posted the following:
>
>> Kweeg wrote:
>>> "Wouter Valentijn" <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote in message
>>> news:47fe5238$0$14358$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
>>>> ToolPackinMama wrote:
>>>>> Steven L. wrote:
>>>>>> TrekMovie says their spies have spotted a 1960s red Corvette
>>>>>> convertible in the location shoot that is likely being used for
>>>>>> the film, but it's not quite clear how that would tie into
>>>>>> scenes being shot there.
>>>>>
>>>>> It better not be Kirk's because he never drove a car until Piece
>>>>> Of The Action.
>>>>
>>>> Indeed!
>>>> And it was one of the few things he wasn't very good at.
>>>> If it is 'Kirk'... Well, it is /not/ the original universe. Even
>>>> the remastered episodes are /not/ the original universe with
>>>> those canon changes.
>>>
>>>
>>> Yet more Fanon. No where was it categorically stated that Kirk had
>>> never driven a car.
>>
>> I have to disagree with you on this one, Kweeg. I think a fair
>> interpretation of that script as written is that automobiles are an
>> "ancient" device with which Kirk is aware in a historical sense, but
>> he's never driven one before. A bit like one of us finding ourselves
>> in Victorian times and having to drive a horse and buggy. We'd sort
>> of know some stuff about it, like steering with the reins and saying
>> "woah", but would have no practical experience of it. Most of us,
>> anyway.
>>
>> I think it's a pretty safe bet that the Trek level of technology
>> would have rendered the internal combustion engine obsolete.
>>
>>
>> Ian
>
> The internal combustion engine rendered the steam engine obsolete,
> also. But that doesn't mean people don't still collect, repair,
> rebuild and show them off.

True, but we're talking about a pretend universe here. If a writer intends
some aspect of it to exist, they have to put that in the script, or it
doesn't exist, as there's no "real" extra stuff to know. For instance, it's
no use speculating whether Jim Kirk breeds pedigree guinea pigs as a hobby;
since we haven't been told he does, then the answer is "no, he doesn't",
right up until some script includes a reference to Jim's guinea pig breeding
hobby.

There's nothing in the script of APOTA which says, or implies, anything
other than Kirk not knowing how to drive a car, which is consistent with the
general Trek setting too. So it's pointless to speculate otherwise.

It's just a bit of light comedy in a light comedy episode based on how
people in the future wouldn't know how to drive cars because they don't have
cars in the future. That's all there is. There isn't anything deeper,
because fiction is only script deep.

It's like that thing where Scotty tried to talk to a 1986 Apple Mac, then
reprogammed it to display transparent aluminium in a few seconds of typing.
That's just a dumb joke too.


Ian

--
http://www.jaxtrawstudios.com
sci-fi comics with shagging in

On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 13:27:56 -0400, ToolPackinMama
<philnblanc@comcast.net> wrote:

>Steven L. wrote:
>> TrekMovie says their spies have spotted a 1960s red Corvette convertible
>> in the location shoot that is likely being used for the film, but it's
>> not quite clear how that would tie into scenes being shot there.
>
>It better not be Kirk's because he never drove a car until Piece Of The
>Action.

If the car scene is because young Jim and George are trying to escape
Eric Bana's character's attempt on Jim's life in the past (which seems
plausible, given what little we know of the plot), then history is
changed and the events in "Piece of the Action" exist in a different
timeline (one in which there was no attempt on young Kirk's life.)

Brian

Derek wrote:
> While intrepidly exploring the bowels of USENET on Thursday, April 10,
> 2008, Steven L. rolled initiative and posted the following:
>
>> Derek wrote:
>>> While intrepidly exploring the bowels of USENET on Thursday, April 10,
>>> 2008, ToolPackinMama rolled initiative and posted the following:
>>>
>>>> Steven L. wrote:
>>>>> TrekMovie says their spies have spotted a 1960s red Corvette convertible
>>>>> in the location shoot that is likely being used for the film, but it's
>>>>> not quite clear how that would tie into scenes being shot there.
>>>> It better not be Kirk's because he never drove a car until Piece Of The
>>>> Action.
>>> Actually, what's clear from the script is that he'd not driven with a
>>> standard transmission until then. He appears to steer ok, once he gets
>>> it into gear.
>>>
>>> In the mid-60s, you could actually get an automatic transmission in a
>>> Vette. And Kirk does have a known penchant for antiques.
>> Yep. Young Kirk might not have been driving the antique Corvette, just
>> restoring it.
>
> I had another idea while mowing the lawn. Admittedly, it's a stretch
> but here it is.
>
> We know Kirk likes antiques. What's the possibility that the Vette (if
> actually included in the film) gets described as the 23rd century
> equivalent of a "kit car"? That is, it looks like it was made in 1964,
> but doesn't run on a fossil fuel.

Then it would be a faux antique, for retro nostalgia, sort of like
buying a Chrysler PT Cruiser today. That doesn't seem like Kirk's
style; from what we saw in his apartment ST II:TWOK, those were actual
antiques.

It's more likely that Kirk is restoring the Corvette, but he hasn't
gotten around to driving it yet.


--
Steven L.
Email: sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net
Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

Jaxtraw wrote:
> I have to disagree with you on this one, Kweeg. I think a fair
> interpretation of that script as written is that automobiles are an
> "ancient" device with which Kirk is aware in a historical sense, but he's
> never driven one before. A bit like one of us finding ourselves in Victorian
> times and having to drive a horse and buggy. We'd sort of know some stuff
> about it, like steering with the reins and saying "woah", but would have no
> practical experience of it. Most of us, anyway.
>
> I think it's a pretty safe bet that the Trek level of technology would have
> rendered the internal combustion engine obsolete.

Thank you.

Derek wrote:
> We know Kirk likes antiques. What's the possibility that the Vette (if
> actually included in the film) gets described as the 23rd century
> equivalent of a "kit car"? That is, it looks like it was made in 1964,
> but doesn't run on a fossil fuel.

I'd be OK with that.

Jaxtraw wrote:

> There's nothing in the script of APOTA which says, or implies, anything
> other than Kirk not knowing how to drive a car, which is consistent with the
> general Trek setting too. So it's pointless to speculate otherwise.

Thank you. I agree.

The logical next assumption is that Kweeg's complaints against me
generally are similarly unfounded.

Steven L. wrote:

> Then it would be a faux antique, for retro nostalgia, sort of like
> buying a Chrysler PT Cruiser today. That doesn't seem like Kirk's
> style; from what we saw in his apartment ST II:TWOK, those were actual
> antiques.

Agreed.
>
> It's more likely that Kirk is restoring the Corvette, but he hasn't
> gotten around to driving it yet.

OK, but please realize that a true enthusiast would know what gears were.

Kweeg wrote:

> TPM ignores facts

::shrug::

Oh?

Derek wrote:
> We know Kirk likes antiques. What's the possibility that the Vette (if
> actually included in the film) gets described as the 23rd century
> equivalent of a "kit car"? That is, it looks like it was made in 1964,
> but doesn't run on a fossil fuel.

Kirk likes antiques, but not just any antiques. We have no reason to
believe that he values antiques from the 20th century. He is never
presented as a fan of 20th century men, and their artifacts. He likes
things from the 19th century and earlier.

The two people who are closest to him know this. In ST2, Spock gives
Kirk a novel written by a Victorian era man about the French Revolution.
Dr. McCoy gives him a pair of glasses that are clearly as ancient as
he could afford.

If Kirk was a fan of CARS, we would have seen models of cars in his
apartment, not models of SAILING SHIPS.

Kirk has been presented as a lover of SAILING SHIPS, not a lover of
automobiles.

ToolPackinMama wrote:

> Kirk has been presented as a lover of SAILING SHIPS, not a lover of
> automobiles.

http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/kirkships.jpg

Hey Kweeg, explain now how Kirk being a obvious fan of sailing ships
must mean that he automatically must be a fan of automobiles too.

Oh and while you are at it, explain away the fact that Roddenberry
publicly acknowledged that the Kirk/Spock relationship was designed by
him from the start to be a love relationship.

ToolPackinMama wrote:
> ToolPackinMama wrote:
>
>> Kirk has been presented as a lover of SAILING SHIPS, not a lover of
>> automobiles.
>
> http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/kirkships.jpg

I have gazed and gazed, but can detect not even one car model in that image.

ToolPackinMama wrote:
> ToolPackinMama wrote:
>> ToolPackinMama wrote:
>>
>>> Kirk has been presented as a lover of SAILING SHIPS, not a lover of
>>> automobiles.
>>
>> http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/kirkships.jpg
>
> I have gazed and gazed, but can detect not even one car model in that
> image.

Note also the firearms mounted on the wall. They do not look like 20th
century armaments, do they?

It sure looks as if Jim Kirk likes artifacts that are CLEARLY
PRE-TWENTIETH CENTURY. Any of you darling people see something I don't?

If you do, take your medication and look again.

While intrepidly exploring the bowels of USENET on Friday, April 11,
2008, ToolPackinMama rolled initiative and posted the following:

> Derek wrote:
>> We know Kirk likes antiques. What's the possibility that the Vette (if
>> actually included in the film) gets described as the 23rd century
>> equivalent of a "kit car"? That is, it looks like it was made in 1964,
>> but doesn't run on a fossil fuel.
>
> Kirk likes antiques, but not just any antiques. We have no reason to
> believe that he values antiques from the 20th century. He is never
> presented as a fan of 20th century men, and their artifacts. He likes
> things from the 19th century and earlier.
>
> The two people who are closest to him know this. In ST2, Spock gives
> Kirk a novel written by a Victorian era man about the French Revolution.
> Dr. McCoy gives him a pair of glasses that are clearly as ancient as
> he could afford.
>
> If Kirk was a fan of CARS, we would have seen models of cars in his
> apartment, not models of SAILING SHIPS.
>
> Kirk has been presented as a lover of SAILING SHIPS, not a lover of
> automobiles.

Which, of course, completely rules out the possibility that Kirk likes
cars too. After all, how many people who own expensive sailing yachts
get to the marina by some means OTHER than public transportation?
--
Derek

"Life is a long lesson in humility." -- James M. Barrie

While intrepidly exploring the bowels of USENET on Friday, April 11,
2008, ToolPackinMama rolled initiative and posted the following:

> Hey Kweeg, explain now how Kirk being a obvious fan of sailing ships
> must mean that he automatically must be a fan of automobiles too.
>
> Oh and while you are at it, explain away the fact that Roddenberry
> publicly acknowledged that the Kirk/Spock relationship was designed by
> him from the start to be a love relationship.

Explain how Kirk being an obvious fan of sailing ships must mean that
he automatically CAN'T be a fan of automobiles, too?

--
Derek

"I never took hallucinogenic drugs because I never wanted my
consciousness expanded one unnecessary iota." -- Fran Lebowitz

While intrepidly exploring the bowels of USENET on Friday, April 11,
2008, ToolPackinMama rolled initiative and posted the following:

> ToolPackinMama wrote:
>> ToolPackinMama wrote:
>>
>>> Kirk has been presented as a lover of SAILING SHIPS, not a lover of
>>> automobiles.
>>
>> http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/kirkships.jpg
>
> I have gazed and gazed, but can detect not even one car model in that image.

Is that because Kirk doesn't like cars or because he chose to decorate
his study/living room in a nautical theme which would be disrupted by
the presence of a 20th century automobile?

Where're the photos of the rest of his apartment?

--
Derek

"Live in such a way that you would not be ashamed to sell your parrot
to the town gossip." -- Will Rogers

While intrepidly exploring the bowels of USENET on Friday, April 11,
2008, ToolPackinMama rolled initiative and posted the following:

> ToolPackinMama wrote:
>> ToolPackinMama wrote:
>>> ToolPackinMama wrote:
>>>
>>>> Kirk has been presented as a lover of SAILING SHIPS, not a lover of
>>>> automobiles.
>>>
>>> http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/kirkships.jpg
>>
>> I have gazed and gazed, but can detect not even one car model in that
>> image.
>
> Note also the firearms mounted on the wall. They do not look like 20th
> century armaments, do they?
>
> It sure looks as if Jim Kirk likes artifacts that are CLEARLY
> PRE-TWENTIETH CENTURY. Any of you darling people see something I don't?
>
> If you do, take your medication and look again.

No, it looks like Jim Kirk (or his interior decorator) stuck with a
single theme for one area of his apartment.

Are you really going to suggest that the sum total of Jim Kirk's
"extracurricular activities" is limited to what we saw in one area of
his apartment in STIII?

People's interests do change, you know. At one time in my life, I had
Star Trek and Star Wars posters on my bedroom walls. Now I have nicely
painted water colors. That doesn't mean that I don't like Star Trek
anymore.

After all, we've never seen his bedroom back at his parents' place in
Iowa. Do you assume that it could only have been decorated with 18th
century sailing ships?

We know far less about the lives and interests of the characters of
Star Trek than we see in "canon."

--
Derek

Dignity is one thing that cannot be preserved in alcohol.

Derek wrote:
> While intrepidly exploring the bowels of USENET on Thursday, April 10,
> 2008, Jaxtraw rolled initiative and posted the following:
>
>> Kweeg wrote:
>>> "Wouter Valentijn" <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote in message
>>> news:47fe5238$0$14358$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
>>>> ToolPackinMama wrote:
>>>>> Steven L. wrote:
>>>>>> TrekMovie says their spies have spotted a 1960s red Corvette
>>>>>> convertible in the location shoot that is likely being used for
>>>>>> the film, but it's not quite clear how that would tie into
>>>>>> scenes being shot there.
>>>>>
>>>>> It better not be Kirk's because he never drove a car until Piece
>>>>> Of The Action.
>>>>
>>>> Indeed!
>>>> And it was one of the few things he wasn't very good at.
>>>> If it is 'Kirk'... Well, it is /not/ the original universe. Even
>>>> the remastered episodes are /not/ the original universe with
>>>> those canon changes.
>>>
>>>
>>> Yet more Fanon. No where was it categorically stated that Kirk had
>>> never driven a car.
>>
>> I have to disagree with you on this one, Kweeg. I think a fair
>> interpretation of that script as written is that automobiles are an
>> "ancient" device with which Kirk is aware in a historical sense, but
>> he's never driven one before. A bit like one of us finding ourselves
>> in Victorian times and having to drive a horse and buggy. We'd sort
>> of know some stuff about it, like steering with the reins and saying
>> "woah", but would have no practical experience of it. Most of us,
>> anyway.
>>
>> I think it's a pretty safe bet that the Trek level of technology
>> would have rendered the internal combustion engine obsolete.

Exactly!

>>
>>
>> Ian
>
> The internal combustion engine rendered the steam engine obsolete,
> also. But that doesn't mean people don't still collect, repair,
> rebuild and show them off.

Yes.
But this is about Kirk and not about Paris.

--
www.woutervalentijn.net

www.nksf.scifics.com/nksfseries.html

liam=mail

On Apr 10, 2:00�pm, "bc_gisele" <giselelaro...@nospamyahoo.com> wrote:

> That's right and he clearly didn't know how to drive.
>
> Gisele

Well he clearly didn't know how to drive "STICK." I'd probably look
the same trying to drive that thing.

50s Vettes were certainly available as an automatic.

"Derek" <news@gwinn.us> wrote in message news:htfum4n16vbx$.dlg@gwinn.us...
> While intrepidly exploring the bowels of USENET on Friday, April 11,
> 2008, ToolPackinMama rolled initiative and posted the following:
>
>> ToolPackinMama wrote:
>>> ToolPackinMama wrote:
>>>> ToolPackinMama wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Kirk has been presented as a lover of SAILING SHIPS, not a lover of
>>>>> automobiles.
>>>>
>>>> http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/kirkships.jpg
>>>
>>> I have gazed and gazed, but can detect not even one car model in that
>>> image.
>>
>> Note also the firearms mounted on the wall. They do not look like 20th
>> century armaments, do they?
>>
>> It sure looks as if Jim Kirk likes artifacts that are CLEARLY
>> PRE-TWENTIETH CENTURY. Any of you darling people see something I don't?
>>
>> If you do, take your medication and look again.
>
> No, it looks like Jim Kirk (or his interior decorator) stuck with a
> single theme for one area of his apartment.
>
> Are you really going to suggest that the sum total of Jim Kirk's
> "extracurricular activities" is limited to what we saw in one area of
> his apartment in STIII?
>
> People's interests do change, you know. At one time in my life, I had
> Star Trek and Star Wars posters on my bedroom walls. Now I have nicely
> painted water colors. That doesn't mean that I don't like Star Trek
> anymore.
>
> After all, we've never seen his bedroom back at his parents' place in
> Iowa. Do you assume that it could only have been decorated with 18th
> century sailing ships?
>
> We know far less about the lives and interests of the characters of
> Star Trek than we see in "canon."


My point exactly. When people start whining, "Kirk didn't drive a car till
"A Piece of the Action" They are not quoting anything canon. The canon is
Kik drove a ('31 V-12 Cadillac) automobile very badly, but still knew enough
to make sure the key was in then look for a starter.

--

Qapla'
Kweeg
Ten of Canadian Clubs in the Eeeevil Trek Cabal
"Half a gallon a'scotch!" Scotty (Spectre of the Gun)
1,079,252,848.8 km/h, not just a good idea, it's the law.
"So say we all!"

Kweeg wrote:
> "Derek" <news@gwinn.us> wrote in message

>
> My point exactly. When people start whining, "Kirk didn't drive a car
> till "A Piece of the Action" They are not quoting anything canon. The
> canon is Kik drove a ('31 V-12 Cadillac) automobile very badly, but
> still knew enough to make sure the key was in then look for a starter.

Maybe he read about it and/or observed others operating such a vehicle.


--
www.woutervalentijn.net

www.nksf.scifics.com/nksfseries.html

liam=mail

"Kweeg" <kweeg@nospam.shaw.ca> wrote...
> My point exactly. When people start whining, "Kirk didn't drive a car
> till "A Piece of the Action" They are not quoting anything canon. The
> canon is Kik drove a ('31 V-12 Cadillac) automobile very badly, but
> still knew enough to make sure the key was in then look for a starter.

Sheer speculation, but I'd guess that if the car is in the family,
it's an heirloom handed down from one of Kirk's 20th century
ancestors, preserved, polished and maintained and possibly
even occaisionally started up over the centuries, but never
actually driven except in slow circles on the Kirk homestead,
because most of the roads in Trek's time appear to have been
turned into mass transit roadbeds or pedestrian right-of-ways
and fossil fuel products are about as readily obtained as a 2E5
vacuum tube. Young Kirk has probably been admonished
from childhood not to scratch great-great-great-great-grand-
uncle's vette if he knows what's good for him; naturally, in
the course of the film he will scratch it and then some.

GeneK

"GeneK" <gene@genek_hates_spammers.com> wrote in message
news:BFPLj.2719$lU5.2602@newsread1.mlpsca01.us.to. verio.net...
>
> "Kweeg" <kweeg@nospam.shaw.ca> wrote...
>> My point exactly. When people start whining, "Kirk didn't drive a car
>> till "A Piece of the Action" They are not quoting anything canon. The
>> canon is Kik drove a ('31 V-12 Cadillac) automobile very badly, but still
>> knew enough to make sure the key was in then look for a starter.
>
> Sheer speculation, but I'd guess that if the car is in the family,
> it's an heirloom handed down from one of Kirk's 20th century
> ancestors, preserved, polished and maintained and possibly
> even occaisionally started up over the centuries, but never
> actually driven except in slow circles on the Kirk homestead,
> because most of the roads in Trek's time appear to have been
> turned into mass transit roadbeds or pedestrian right-of-ways
> and fossil fuel products are about as readily obtained as a 2E5
> vacuum tube. Young Kirk has probably been admonished
> from childhood not to scratch great-great-great-great-grand-
> uncle's vette if he knows what's good for him; naturally, in
> the course of the film he will scratch it and then some.



Could very well be a possible explanation... sorta makes me think of that
Rush song "Red Barchetta"
(kinda cool side show for the song)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epr144KsKGI

--

Qapla'
Kweeg
Ten of Canadian Clubs in the Eeeevil Trek Cabal
"Half a gallon a'scotch!" Scotty (Spectre of the Gun)
1,079,252,848.8 km/h, not just a good idea, it's the law.
"So say we all!"

"Kweeg" <kweeg@nospam.shaw.ca> wrote in
news:IeyLj.40225$rd2.7319@pd7urf3no:

> "Derek" <news@gwinn.us> wrote in message
> news:1esuxtgutumrh$.dlg@gwinn.us...
>> While intrepidly exploring the bowels of USENET on Thursday, April
>> 10, 2008, ToolPackinMama rolled initiative and posted the following:
>>
>>> Kweeg wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yet more Fanon. No where was it categorically stated that Kirk had
>>>> never driven a car.
>>>
>>> Have you SEEN "A piece of the action"? Do you remember the scene
>>> where he drove?
>>>
>>> Wheels, Mr. Spock.
>>>
>>> A flivver, Captain.
>>> Key in the ignition. Turn the ignition on ...
>>> and nothing happens. Where's the starter? There's the
>>> starter.[Engine Starts] Yes!
>>
>> Clearly demonstrating that he knew that if a car didn't start when
>> you turned the key that you had to look for a starter button/switch.
>>
>> How many drivers today do you think would know to look for a starter?
>>
>>> Interesting.
>>>
>>> [Grinding]
>>>
>>> Oops! Gears.
>>>
>>> Yes. Oh, I believe they had a device known as a ... clutch. Clutch,
>>> Captain. Perhaps one of those pedals on the floor.
>>
>> Ever seen someone drive with a manual transmission for the first
>> time? Looks rather similar to POTA, even if they're experienced with
>> an automatic transmission.
>>
>>> I kind of like this. I'm going to get one myself.
>>>
>>> [Crash]
>>>
>>> [Backfiring]
>>>
>>> [Honk]
>>>
>>> Captain, you are an excellent starship commander. But as a taxi
>>> driver, you leave much to be desired.
>>>
>>> ===
>>>
>>> OK, Kweeg, explain how me saying Kirk couldn't drive is "fanon"?
>>> Everything you say only makes me look good, keep talking.
>>
>> Fanon or not, the claim does ignore the knowledge Kirk demonstrates,
>> even if he's going to rip that clutch from the transmission.
>
>
> Indeed.
> TPM ignores facts (as well as out and out denying them) when they are
> inconvenient or do not suit her needs for her flimsy theories.
> No amount of actual facts and logical debate will convince her other
> wise. Sorta like arguing with a 4 year old.

Well, I don't know about that. He would know that a car or any motor
vehicle would need some sort of starter so that doesn't show that he knows
how to drive. Seems to me, that even once the car got started and he was
moving forward, he still didn't know how to drive.

Gisele

"Kweeg" <kweeg@nospam.shaw.ca> wrote in news:oYuLj.41276$Cj7.31720
@pd7urf2no:

> "Wouter Valentijn" <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote in message
> news:47fe77d9$0$14357$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
>> Kweeg wrote:
>>> "Wouter Valentijn" <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote in message
>>> news:47fe5238$0$14358$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
>>>> ToolPackinMama wrote:
>>>>> Steven L. wrote:
>>>>>> TrekMovie says their spies have spotted a 1960s red Corvette
>>>>>> convertible in the location shoot that is likely being used for the
>>>>>> film, but it's not quite clear how that would tie into scenes being
>>>>>> shot there.
>>>>>
>>>>> It better not be Kirk's because he never drove a car until Piece Of
>>>>> The Action.
>>>>
>>>> Indeed!
>>>> And it was one of the few things he wasn't very good at.
>>>> If it is 'Kirk'... Well, it is /not/ the original universe. Even the
>>>> remastered episodes are /not/ the original universe with those canon
>>>> changes.
>>>
>>>
>>> Yet more Fanon. No where was it categorically stated that Kirk had
>>> never driven a car.
>>> But then again this is from a woman that can't believe two men can be
>>> close friends with out being lovers.
>>
>> It is based on this scene:
>> [Honk]
>> Wheels, Mr. Spock.
>> A fliwer, Captain.
>> Key in the ignition. Turn the ignition on ...
>> and nothing happens. Where's the starter?
>> There's the starter.
>> [Engine Starts]
>> Yes!
>> Interesting.
>> [Grinding]
>> Oops!
>> Gears.
>> Yes. Oh ...
>> I believe they had a device
>> known as a ... clutch.
>> Clutch, Captain.
>> Perhaps one of those pedals on the floor.
>> I kind of like this.
>> I'm going to get one myself.
>> [Crash]
>> [Backfiring]
>> [Honk]
>> Captain, you are an excellent starship commander.
>> But as a taxi driver,
>> you leave much to be desired.
>>
>> From this conversation between Kirk and Spock I think it is clear that
>> driving a car (at least with a hand controled transmission) is not
>> something Kirk experienced before.
>
>
> Put most people in a "vintage" car today that have only driven modern
> vehicles and see how well they do, especially if they have never driven
> stick.

Yes but once it's started, they know how to steer the thing. Kirk didn't.
And he didn't know about pedals which *any* car has.

Gisele

ToolPackinMama <philnblanc@comcast.net> wrote in
news:NvSdnc72R8r66WPanZ2dnUVZ_t6onZ2d@comcast.com:

> bc_gisele wrote:
>> ToolPackinMama <philnblanc@comcast.net> wrote in
>> news:b6idnbEF2-6f02PanZ2dnUVZ_hWdnZ2d@comcast.com:
>>
>>> Steven L. wrote:
>>>> TrekMovie says their spies have spotted a 1960s red Corvette
>>>> convertible in the location shoot that is likely being used for the
>>>> film, but it's not quite clear how that would tie into scenes being
>>>> shot there.
>>> It better not be Kirk's because he never drove a car until Piece Of
>>> The Action.
>>
>> That's right and he clearly didn't know how to drive.
>
> That's right he didn't. Expected the thing to just turn on. Didn't
> know what a clutch was. Had only a vague idea about gears. Spock
> criticized his driving, saying,
>
> "Captain, you are an excellent starship commander. But as a taxi driver,
> you leave much to be desired."
>
> Kirk couldn't drive. That was obviously his first hands-on experience
> with a 20th century style automobile.
>
> Isn't it fun to be right Gisele? I love being right, don't you!? :)

Yep but even being right sometimes can turn bad especially if the majority
don't agree with you......<g>

Gisele

"bc_gisele" <giselelaroche@nospamyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A7DB1C05C48Cgiselelarochenospamy@194.177. 96.26...
> "Kweeg" <kweeg@nospam.shaw.ca> wrote in news:oYuLj.41276$Cj7.31720
> @pd7urf2no:
>
>> "Wouter Valentijn" <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote in message
>> news:47fe77d9$0$14357$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
>>> Kweeg wrote:
>>>> "Wouter Valentijn" <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote in message
>>>> news:47fe5238$0$14358$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
>>>>> ToolPackinMama wrote:
>>>>>> Steven L. wrote:
>>>>>>> TrekMovie says their spies have spotted a 1960s red Corvette
>>>>>>> convertible in the location shoot that is likely being used for the
>>>>>>> film, but it's not quite clear how that would tie into scenes being
>>>>>>> shot there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It better not be Kirk's because he never drove a car until Piece Of
>>>>>> The Action.
>>>>>
>>>>> Indeed!
>>>>> And it was one of the few things he wasn't very good at.
>>>>> If it is 'Kirk'... Well, it is /not/ the original universe. Even the
>>>>> remastered episodes are /not/ the original universe with those canon
>>>>> changes.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yet more Fanon. No where was it categorically stated that Kirk had
>>>> never driven a car.
>>>> But then again this is from a woman that can't believe two men can be
>>>> close friends with out being lovers.
>>>
>>> It is based on this scene:
>>> [Honk]
>>> Wheels, Mr. Spock.
>>> A fliwer, Captain.
>>> Key in the ignition. Turn the ignition on ...
>>> and nothing happens. Where's the starter?
>>> There's the starter.
>>> [Engine Starts]
>>> Yes!
>>> Interesting.
>>> [Grinding]
>>> Oops!
>>> Gears.
>>> Yes. Oh ...
>>> I believe they had a device
>>> known as a ... clutch.
>>> Clutch, Captain.
>>> Perhaps one of those pedals on the floor.
>>> I kind of like this.
>>> I'm going to get one myself.
>>> [Crash]
>>> [Backfiring]
>>> [Honk]
>>> Captain, you are an excellent starship commander.
>>> But as a taxi driver,
>>> you leave much to be desired.
>>>
>>> From this conversation between Kirk and Spock I think it is clear that
>>> driving a car (at least with a hand controled transmission) is not
>>> something Kirk experienced before.
>>
>>
>> Put most people in a "vintage" car today that have only driven modern
>> vehicles and see how well they do, especially if they have never driven
>> stick.
>
> Yes but once it's started, they know how to steer the thing. Kirk didn't.
> And he didn't know about pedals which *any* car has.


How do you get "didn't know about pedals" from "Clutch, Captain. Perhaps one
of those pedals on the floor" and how do you get "Kirk didn't know how to
sear," from what little we saw? Did he hit any thing? (the answer is no)


--

Qapla'
Kweeg
Ten of Canadian Clubs in the Eeeevil Trek Cabal
"Half a gallon a'scotch!" Scotty (Spectre of the Gun)
1,079,252,848.8 km/h, not just a good idea, it's the law.
"So say we all!"

"bc_gisele" <giselelaroche@nospamyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A7DB271F4933giselelarochenospamy@194.177. 96.26...
> ToolPackinMama <philnblanc@comcast.net> wrote in
> news:NvSdnc72R8r66WPanZ2dnUVZ_t6onZ2d@comcast.com:
>
>> bc_gisele wrote:
>>> ToolPackinMama <philnblanc@comcast.net> wrote in
>>> news:b6idnbEF2-6f02PanZ2dnUVZ_hWdnZ2d@comcast.com:
>>>
>>>> Steven L. wrote:
>>>>> TrekMovie says their spies have spotted a 1960s red Corvette
>>>>> convertible in the location shoot that is likely being used for the
>>>>> film, but it's not quite clear how that would tie into scenes being
>>>>> shot there.
>>>> It better not be Kirk's because he never drove a car until Piece Of
>>>> The Action.
>>>
>>> That's right and he clearly didn't know how to drive.
>>
>> That's right he didn't. Expected the thing to just turn on. Didn't
>> know what a clutch was. Had only a vague idea about gears. Spock
>> criticized his driving, saying,
>>
>> "Captain, you are an excellent starship commander. But as a taxi driver,
>> you leave much to be desired."
>>
>> Kirk couldn't drive. That was obviously his first hands-on experience
>> with a 20th century style automobile.
>>
>> Isn't it fun to be right Gisele? I love being right, don't you!? :)
>
> Yep but even being right sometimes can turn bad especially if the majority
> don't agree with you......<g>


Or you're just wrong

--

Qapla'
Kweeg
Ten of Canadian Clubs in the Eeeevil Trek Cabal
"Half a gallon a'scotch!" Scotty (Spectre of the Gun)
1,079,252,848.8 km/h, not just a good idea, it's the law.
"So say we all!"

While intrepidly exploring the bowels of USENET on Friday, April 11,
2008, Wouter Valentijn rolled initiative and posted the following:

> Derek wrote:
>> While intrepidly exploring the bowels of USENET on Thursday, April 10,
>> 2008, Jaxtraw rolled initiative and posted the following:
>>
>>> Kweeg wrote:
>>>> "Wouter Valentijn" <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote in message
>>>> news:47fe5238$0$14358$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
>>>>> ToolPackinMama wrote:
>>>>>> Steven L. wrote:
>>>>>>> TrekMovie says their spies have spotted a 1960s red Corvette
>>>>>>> convertible in the location shoot that is likely being used for
>>>>>>> the film, but it's not quite clear how that would tie into
>>>>>>> scenes being shot there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It better not be Kirk's because he never drove a car until Piece
>>>>>> Of The Action.
>>>>>
>>>>> Indeed!
>>>>> And it was one of the few things he wasn't very good at.
>>>>> If it is 'Kirk'... Well, it is /not/ the original universe. Even
>>>>> the remastered episodes are /not/ the original universe with
>>>>> those canon changes.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yet more Fanon. No where was it categorically stated that Kirk had
>>>> never driven a car.
>>>
>>> I have to disagree with you on this one, Kweeg. I think a fair
>>> interpretation of that script as written is that automobiles are an
>>> "ancient" device with which Kirk is aware in a historical sense, but
>>> he's never driven one before. A bit like one of us finding ourselves
>>> in Victorian times and having to drive a horse and buggy. We'd sort
>>> of know some stuff about it, like steering with the reins and saying
>>> "woah", but would have no practical experience of it. Most of us,
>>> anyway.
>>>
>>> I think it's a pretty safe bet that the Trek level of technology
>>> would have rendered the internal combustion engine obsolete.
>
> Exactly!
>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ian
>>
>> The internal combustion engine rendered the steam engine obsolete,
>> also. But that doesn't mean people don't still collect, repair,
>> rebuild and show them off.
>
> Yes.
> But this is about Kirk and not about Paris.

Point taken.

--
Derek

"Failure is not the only punishment for laziness; there is also the
success of others." -- Jules Renard

While intrepidly exploring the bowels of USENET on Friday, April 11,
2008, bc_gisele rolled initiative and posted the following:

> "Kweeg" <kweeg@nospam.shaw.ca> wrote in
> news:IeyLj.40225$rd2.7319@pd7urf3no:
>
>> "Derek" <news@gwinn.us> wrote in message
>> news:1esuxtgutumrh$.dlg@gwinn.us...
>>> While intrepidly exploring the bowels of USENET on Thursday, April
>>> 10, 2008, ToolPackinMama rolled initiative and posted the following:
>>>
>>>> Kweeg wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Yet more Fanon. No where was it categorically stated that Kirk had
>>>>> never driven a car.
>>>>
>>>> Have you SEEN "A piece of the action"? Do you remember the scene
>>>> where he drove?
>>>>
>>>> Wheels, Mr. Spock.
>>>>
>>>> A flivver, Captain.
>>>> Key in the ignition. Turn the ignition on ...
>>>> and nothing happens. Where's the starter? There's the
>>>> starter.[Engine Starts] Yes!
>>>
>>> Clearly demonstrating that he knew that if a car didn't start when
>>> you turned the key that you had to look for a starter button/switch.
>>>
>>> How many drivers today do you think would know to look for a starter?
>>>
>>>> Interesting.
>>>>
>>>> [Grinding]
>>>>
>>>> Oops! Gears.
>>>>
>>>> Yes. Oh, I believe they had a device known as a ... clutch. Clutch,
>>>> Captain. Perhaps one of those pedals on the floor.
>>>
>>> Ever seen someone drive with a manual transmission for the first
>>> time? Looks rather similar to POTA, even if they're experienced with
>>> an automatic transmission.
>>>
>>>> I kind of like this. I'm going to get one myself.
>>>>
>>>> [Crash]
>>>>
>>>> [Backfiring]
>>>>
>>>> [Honk]
>>>>
>>>> Captain, you are an excellent starship commander. But as a taxi
>>>> driver, you leave much to be desired.
>>>>
>>>> ===
>>>>
>>>> OK, Kweeg, explain how me saying Kirk couldn't drive is "fanon"?
>>>> Everything you say only makes me look good, keep talking.
>>>
>>> Fanon or not, the claim does ignore the knowledge Kirk demonstrates,
>>> even if he's going to rip that clutch from the transmission.
>>
>>
>> Indeed.
>> TPM ignores facts (as well as out and out denying them) when they are
>> inconvenient or do not suit her needs for her flimsy theories.
>> No amount of actual facts and logical debate will convince her other
>> wise. Sorta like arguing with a 4 year old.
>
> Well, I don't know about that. He would know that a car or any motor
> vehicle would need some sort of starter so that doesn't show that he knows
> how to drive. Seems to me, that even once the car got started and he was
> moving forward, he still didn't know how to drive.
>
> Gisele

Watch someone driving stick for the first time. He or she will get so
focussed on controlling both their left foot and the stick at the same
time that they will drive poorly until they get the hang of it.

That's why most people try it in a parking lot the first time, and not
on the street.

As I recall - Kirk was driving better by the time they stopped and got
out. This suggests that steering the car wasn't a problem once he got
the gear shifting under control.

--
Derek

A man who turns green has eschewed protein.

While intrepidly exploring the bowels of USENET on Friday, April 11,
2008, bc_gisele rolled initiative and posted the following:

> "Kweeg" <kweeg@nospam.shaw.ca> wrote in news:oYuLj.41276$Cj7.31720
> @pd7urf2no:
>
>> "Wouter Valentijn" <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote in message
>> news:47fe77d9$0$14357$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
>>> Kweeg wrote:
>>>> "Wouter Valentijn" <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote in message
>>>> news:47fe5238$0$14358$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
>>>>> ToolPackinMama wrote:
>>>>>> Steven L. wrote:
>>>>>>> TrekMovie says their spies have spotted a 1960s red Corvette
>>>>>>> convertible in the location shoot that is likely being used for the
>>>>>>> film, but it's not quite clear how that would tie into scenes being
>>>>>>> shot there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It better not be Kirk's because he never drove a car until Piece Of
>>>>>> The Action.
>>>>>
>>>>> Indeed!
>>>>> And it was one of the few things he wasn't very good at.
>>>>> If it is 'Kirk'... Well, it is /not/ the original universe. Even the
>>>>> remastered episodes are /not/ the original universe with those canon
>>>>> changes.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yet more Fanon. No where was it categorically stated that Kirk had
>>>> never driven a car.
>>>> But then again this is from a woman that can't believe two men can be
>>>> close friends with out being lovers.
>>>
>>> It is based on this scene:
>>> [Honk]
>>> Wheels, Mr. Spock.
>>> A fliwer, Captain.
>>> Key in the ignition. Turn the ignition on ...
>>> and nothing happens. Where's the starter?
>>> There's the starter.
>>> [Engine Starts]
>>> Yes!
>>> Interesting.
>>> [Grinding]
>>> Oops!
>>> Gears.
>>> Yes. Oh ...
>>> I believe they had a device
>>> known as a ... clutch.
>>> Clutch, Captain.
>>> Perhaps one of those pedals on the floor.
>>> I kind of like this.
>>> I'm going to get one myself.
>>> [Crash]
>>> [Backfiring]
>>> [Honk]
>>> Captain, you are an excellent starship commander.
>>> But as a taxi driver,
>>> you leave much to be desired.
>>>
>>> From this conversation between Kirk and Spock I think it is clear that
>>> driving a car (at least with a hand controled transmission) is not
>>> something Kirk experienced before.
>>
>>
>> Put most people in a "vintage" car today that have only driven modern
>> vehicles and see how well they do, especially if they have never driven
>> stick.
>
> Yes but once it's started, they know how to steer the thing. Kirk didn't.
> And he didn't know about pedals which *any* car has.
>
> Gisele

A) He did know how to steer the thing, he was distracted by the clutch
and the gear shift. Watch novice stick-shift drivers. They do the same
thing.

B) He knew about the pedals. He forgot about the clutch. As I recall,
he and Spock both said the word at or about the same time.
--
Derek

"It is a waste of energy to be angry with a man who behaves badly,
just as it is to be angry with a car that won't go." -- Bertrand
Russell

Derek <news@gwinn.us> wrote in news:5zz15uwopn60$.dlg@gwinn.us:

>> Well, I don't know about that. He would know that a car or any motor
>> vehicle would need some sort of starter so that doesn't show that he
>> knows how to drive. Seems to me, that even once the car got started
>> and he was moving forward, he still didn't know how to drive.
>>
>> Gisele
>
> Watch someone driving stick for the first time. He or she will get so
> focussed on controlling both their left foot and the stick at the same
> time that they will drive poorly until they get the hang of it.
>
> That's why most people try it in a parking lot the first time, and not
> on the street.
>
> As I recall - Kirk was driving better by the time they stopped and got
> out. This suggests that steering the car wasn't a problem once he got
> the gear shifting under control.

Yes but it shows he didn't know how to drive. Moreover, Spock had to tell
him about the pedals, etc.

Gisele

While intrepidly exploring the bowels of USENET on Friday, April 11,
2008, bc_gisele rolled initiative and posted the following:

> ToolPackinMama <philnblanc@comcast.net> wrote in
> news:NvSdnc72R8r66WPanZ2dnUVZ_t6onZ2d@comcast.com:
>
>> bc_gisele wrote:
>>> ToolPackinMama <philnblanc@comcast.net> wrote in
>>> news:b6idnbEF2-6f02PanZ2dnUVZ_hWdnZ2d@comcast.com:
>>>
>>>> Steven L. wrote:
>>>>> TrekMovie says their spies have spotted a 1960s red Corvette
>>>>> convertible in the location shoot that is likely being used for the
>>>>> film, but it's not quite clear how that would tie into scenes being
>>>>> shot there.
>>>> It better not be Kirk's because he never drove a car until Piece Of
>>>> The Action.
>>>
>>> That's right and he clearly didn't know how to drive.
>>
>> That's right he didn't. Expected the thing to just turn on. Didn't
>> know what a clutch was. Had only a vague idea about gears. Spock
>> criticized his driving, saying,
>>
>> "Captain, you are an excellent starship commander. But as a taxi driver,
>> you leave much to be desired."
>>
>> Kirk couldn't drive. That was obviously his first hands-on experience
>> with a 20th century style automobile.
>>
>> Isn't it fun to be right Gisele? I love being right, don't you!? :)
>
> Yep but even being right sometimes can turn bad especially if the majority
> don't agree with you......<g>
>
> Gisele

The Dunning-Kruger effect strikes again.

--
Derek

"Your life story would not make a good book. Don't even try." -- Fran
Lebowitz

"bc_gisele" <giselelaroche@nospamyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A7DC996C44BDgiselelarochenospamy@194.177. 96.26...
> Derek <news@gwinn.us> wrote in news:5zz15uwopn60$.dlg@gwinn.us:
>
>>> Well, I don't know about that. He would know that a car or any motor
>>> vehicle would need some sort of starter so that doesn't show that he
>>> knows how to drive. Seems to me, that even once the car got started
>>> and he was moving forward, he still didn't know how to drive.
>>>
>>> Gisele
>>
>> Watch someone driving stick for the first time. He or she will get so
>> focussed on controlling both their left foot and the stick at the same
>> time that they will drive poorly until they get the hang of it.
>>
>> That's why most people try it in a parking lot the first time, and not
>> on the street.
>>
>> As I recall - Kirk was driving better by the time they stopped and got
>> out. This suggests that steering the car wasn't a problem once he got
>> the gear shifting under control.
>
> Yes but it shows he didn't know how to drive. Moreover, Spock had to tell
> him about the pedals, etc.


Spock only had to tell him about the *clutch* (and just suggested it might
be one of the pedals on the floor) indicating Kirk had never drove a
standard before.

--

Qapla'
Kweeg
Ten of Canadian Clubs in the Eeeevil Trek Cabal
"Half a gallon a'scotch!" Scotty (Spectre of the Gun)
1,079,252,848.8 km/h, not just a good idea, it's the law.
"So say we all!"

"Derek" <news@gwinn.us> wrote in message news:1vlkxxrj3g7vs$.dlg@gwinn.us...
> While intrepidly exploring the bowels of USENET on Friday, April 11,
> 2008, bc_gisele rolled initiative and posted the following:
>
>> ToolPackinMama <philnblanc@comcast.net> wrote in
>> news:NvSdnc72R8r66WPanZ2dnUVZ_t6onZ2d@comcast.com:
>>
>>> bc_gisele wrote:
>>>> ToolPackinMama <philnblanc@comcast.net> wrote in
>>>> news:b6idnbEF2-6f02PanZ2dnUVZ_hWdnZ2d@comcast.com:
>>>>
>>>>> Steven L. wrote:
>>>>>> TrekMovie says their spies have spotted a 1960s red Corvette
>>>>>> convertible in the location shoot that is likely being used for the
>>>>>> film, but it's not quite clear how that would tie into scenes being
>>>>>> shot there.
>>>>> It better not be Kirk's because he never drove a car until Piece Of
>>>>> The Action.
>>>>
>>>> That's right and he clearly didn't know how to drive.
>>>
>>> That's right he didn't. Expected the thing to just turn on. Didn't
>>> know what a clutch was. Had only a vague idea about gears. Spock
>>> criticized his driving, saying,
>>>
>>> "Captain, you are an excellent starship commander. But as a taxi driver,
>>> you leave much to be desired."
>>>
>>> Kirk couldn't drive. That was obviously his first hands-on experience
>>> with a 20th century style automobile.
>>>
>>> Isn't it fun to be right Gisele? I love being right, don't you!? :)
>>
>> Yep but even being right sometimes can turn bad especially if the
>> majority
>> don't agree with you......<g>
>>
>> Gisele
>
> The Dunning-Kruger effect strikes again.


LMFAO!
Indeed.

--

Qapla'
Kweeg
Ten of Canadian Clubs in the Eeeevil Trek Cabal
"Half a gallon a'scotch!" Scotty (Spectre of the Gun)
1,079,252,848.8 km/h, not just a good idea, it's the law.
"So say we all!"

"Derek" <news@gwinn.us> wrote in message news:2r0qcv3ummjm$.dlg@gwinn.us...
> While intrepidly exploring the bowels of USENET on Friday, April 11,
> 2008, ToolPackinMama rolled initiative and posted the following:
>
>> Hey Kweeg, explain now how Kirk being a obvious fan of sailing ships
>> must mean that he automatically must be a fan of automobiles too.
>>
>> Oh and while you are at it, explain away the fact that Roddenberry
>> publicly acknowledged that the Kirk/Spock relationship was designed by
>> him from the start to be a love relationship.
>
> Explain how Kirk being an obvious fan of sailing ships must mean that
> he automatically CAN'T be a fan of automobiles, too?
>
> --
> Derek
>
> "I never took hallucinogenic drugs because I never wanted my
> consciousness expanded one unnecessary iota." -- Fran Lebowitz


Can I applaud here as well???

Truth is, anything that can be speculated on can be explained away should
TPTB choose
to stretch canon. I can accept the standard transmission issue to explain
Kirk's driving
just as I also can accept that much of his daily routine was left
unexplored. We piece together
character history from the words of many different authors who probably
never put as much
thought into canon as we do.

In article <Xns9A7DC996C44BDgiselelarochenospamy@194.177.96.26>,
"bc_gisele" <giselelaroche@nospamyahoo.com> wrote:

> Derek <news@gwinn.us> wrote in news:5zz15uwopn60$.dlg@gwinn.us:
>
> >> Well, I don't know about that. He would know that a car or any motor
> >> vehicle would need some sort of starter so that doesn't show that he
> >> knows how to drive. Seems to me, that even once the car got started
> >> and he was moving forward, he still didn't know how to drive.
> >>
> >> Gisele
> >
> > Watch someone driving stick for the first time. He or she will get so
> > focussed on controlling both their left foot and the stick at the same
> > time that they will drive poorly until they get the hang of it.
> >
> > That's why most people try it in a parking lot the first time, and not
> > on the street.
> >
> > As I recall - Kirk was driving better by the time they stopped and got
> > out. This suggests that steering the car wasn't a problem once he got
> > the gear shifting under control.
>
> Yes but it shows he didn't know how to drive. Moreover, Spock had to tell
> him about the pedals, etc.
>
> Gisele

[Honk]
Wheels, Mr. Spock.
A fliwer, Captain.
Key in the ignition. Turn the ignition on ...
and nothing happens. Where's the starter?
There's the starter.
[Engine Starts]
Yes!
Interesting.
[Grinding]
Oops!
Gears.
Yes. Oh ...
I believe they had a device
known as a ... clutch.
Clutch, Captain.
Perhaps one of those pedals on the floor.
I kind of like this.
I'm going to get one myself.
[Crash]
[Backfiring]
[Honk]
Captain, you are an excellent starship commander.
But as a taxi driver,
you leave much to be desired.
It was that bad?

later:

[Honk Honk Honk]
Must we?
It's faster than walking.
Are you afraid of cars?
Not at all.
It's your driving that alarms me.
I've got the hang of it now. Go on.

--
Star Trek 09:

No Shat, No Show.
http://www.disneysub.com/board/noshat.jpg

In article <1524a0wwhbb5y$.dlg@gwinn.us>, Derek <news@gwinn.us> wrote:

> While intrepidly exploring the bowels of USENET on Friday, April 11,
> 2008, bc_gisele rolled initiative and posted the following:
>
> > "Kweeg" <kweeg@nospam.shaw.ca> wrote in news:oYuLj.41276$Cj7.31720
> > @pd7urf2no:
> >
> >> "Wouter Valentijn" <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote in message
> >> news:47fe77d9$0$14357$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
> >>> Kweeg wrote:
> >>>> "Wouter Valentijn" <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote in message
> >>>> news:47fe5238$0$14358$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
> >>>>> ToolPackinMama wrote:
> >>>>>> Steven L. wrote:
> >>>>>>> TrekMovie says their spies have spotted a 1960s red Corvette
> >>>>>>> convertible in the location shoot that is likely being used for the
> >>>>>>> film, but it's not quite clear how that would tie into scenes being
> >>>>>>> shot there.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> It better not be Kirk's because he never drove a car until Piece Of
> >>>>>> The Action.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Indeed!
> >>>>> And it was one of the few things he wasn't very good at.
> >>>>> If it is 'Kirk'... Well, it is /not/ the original universe. Even the
> >>>>> remastered episodes are /not/ the original universe with those canon
> >>>>> changes.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Yet more Fanon. No where was it categorically stated that Kirk had
> >>>> never driven a car.
> >>>> But then again this is from a woman that can't believe two men can be
> >>>> close friends with out being lovers.
> >>>
> >>> It is based on this scene:
> >>> [Honk]
> >>> Wheels, Mr. Spock.
> >>> A fliwer, Captain.
> >>> Key in the ignition. Turn the ignition on ...
> >>> and nothing happens. Where's the starter?
> >>> There's the starter.
> >>> [Engine Starts]
> >>> Yes!
> >>> Interesting.
> >>> [Grinding]
> >>> Oops!
> >>> Gears.
> >>> Yes. Oh ...
> >>> I believe they had a device
> >>> known as a ... clutch.
> >>> Clutch, Captain.
> >>> Perhaps one of those pedals on the floor.
> >>> I kind of like this.
> >>> I'm going to get one myself.
> >>> [Crash]
> >>> [Backfiring]
> >>> [Honk]
> >>> Captain, you are an excellent starship commander.
> >>> But as a taxi driver,
> >>> you leave much to be desired.
> >>>
> >>> From this conversation between Kirk and Spock I think it is clear that
> >>> driving a car (at least with a hand controled transmission) is not
> >>> something Kirk experienced before.
> >>
> >>
> >> Put most people in a "vintage" car today that have only driven modern
> >> vehicles and see how well they do, especially if they have never driven
> >> stick.
> >
> > Yes but once it's started, they know how to steer the thing. Kirk didn't.
> > And he didn't know about pedals which *any* car has.
> >
> > Gisele
>
> A) He did know how to steer the thing, he was distracted by the clutch
> and the gear shift. Watch novice stick-shift drivers. They do the same
> thing.
>
> B) He knew about the pedals. He forgot about the clutch. As I recall,
> he and Spock both said the word at or about the same time.

You recall incorrectly. Spock tells him the word clutch, twice. Kirk
doesn't say it at all.

--
Star Trek 09:

No Shat, No Show.
http://www.disneysub.com/board/noshat.jpg

In article <5zz15uwopn60$.dlg@gwinn.us>, Derek <news@gwinn.us> wrote:

> While intrepidly exploring the bowels of USENET on Friday, April 11,
> 2008, bc_gisele rolled initiative and posted the following:
>
> > "Kweeg" <kweeg@nospam.shaw.ca> wrote in
> > news:IeyLj.40225$rd2.7319@pd7urf3no:
> >
> >> "Derek" <news@gwinn.us> wrote in message
> >> news:1esuxtgutumrh$.dlg@gwinn.us...
> >>> While intrepidly exploring the bowels of USENET on Thursday, April
> >>> 10, 2008, ToolPackinMama rolled initiative and posted the following:
> >>>
> >>>> Kweeg wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Yet more Fanon. No where was it categorically stated that Kirk had
> >>>>> never driven a car.
> >>>>
> >>>> Have you SEEN "A piece of the action"? Do you remember the scene
> >>>> where he drove?
> >>>>
> >>>> Wheels, Mr. Spock.
> >>>>
> >>>> A flivver, Captain.
> >>>> Key in the ignition. Turn the ignition on ...
> >>>> and nothing happens. Where's the starter? There's the
> >>>> starter.[Engine Starts] Yes!
> >>>
> >>> Clearly demonstrating that he knew that if a car didn't start when
> >>> you turned the key that you had to look for a starter button/switch.
> >>>
> >>> How many drivers today do you think would know to look for a starter?
> >>>
> >>>> Interesting.
> >>>>
> >>>> [Grinding]
> >>>>
> >>>> Oops! Gears.
> >>>>
> >>>> Yes. Oh, I believe they had a device known as a ... clutch. Clutch,
> >>>> Captain. Perhaps one of those pedals on the floor.
> >>>
> >>> Ever seen someone drive with a manual transmission for the first
> >>> time? Looks rather similar to POTA, even if they're experienced with
> >>> an automatic transmission.
> >>>
> >>>> I kind of like this. I'm going to get one myself.
> >>>>
> >>>> [Crash]
> >>>>
> >>>> [Backfiring]
> >>>>
> >>>> [Honk]
> >>>>
> >>>> Captain, you are an excellent starship commander. But as a taxi
> >>>> driver, you leave much to be desired.
> >>>>
> >>>> ===
> >>>>
> >>>> OK, Kweeg, explain how me saying Kirk couldn't drive is "fanon"?
> >>>> Everything you say only makes me look good, keep talking.
> >>>
> >>> Fanon or not, the claim does ignore the knowledge Kirk demonstrates,
> >>> even if he's going to rip that clutch from the transmission.
> >>
> >>
> >> Indeed.
> >> TPM ignores facts (as well as out and out denying them) when they are
> >> inconvenient or do not suit her needs for her flimsy theories.
> >> No amount of actual facts and logical debate will convince her other
> >> wise. Sorta like arguing with a 4 year old.
> >
> > Well, I don't know about that. He would know that a car or any motor
> > vehicle would need some sort of starter so that doesn't show that he knows
> > how to drive. Seems to me, that even once the car got started and he was
> > moving forward, he still didn't know how to drive.
> >
> > Gisele
>
> Watch someone driving stick for the first time. He or she will get so
> focussed on controlling both their left foot and the stick at the same
> time that they will drive poorly until they get the hang of it.
>
> That's why most people try it in a parking lot the first time, and not
> on the street.
>
> As I recall - Kirk was driving better by the time they stopped and got
> out. This suggests that steering the car wasn't a problem once he got
> the gear shifting under control.

You do not recall correctly. His driving doesn't improve, and Spock
says as much.

--
Star Trek 09:

No Shat, No Show.
http://www.disneysub.com/board/noshat.jpg

In article <Xns9A7DB1C05C48Cgiselelarochenospamy@194.177.96.26>,
"bc_gisele" <giselelaroche@nospamyahoo.com> wrote:

> "Kweeg" <kweeg@nospam.shaw.ca> wrote in news:oYuLj.41276$Cj7.31720
> @pd7urf2no:
>
> > "Wouter Valentijn" <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote in message
> > news:47fe77d9$0$14357$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
> >> Kweeg wrote:
> >>> "Wouter Valentijn" <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote in message
> >>> news:47fe5238$0$14358$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
> >>>> ToolPackinMama wrote:
> >>>>> Steven L. wrote:
> >>>>>> TrekMovie says their spies have spotted a 1960s red Corvette
> >>>>>> convertible in the location shoot that is likely being used for the
> >>>>>> film, but it's not quite clear how that would tie into scenes being
> >>>>>> shot there.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It better not be Kirk's because he never drove a car until Piece Of
> >>>>> The Action.
> >>>>
> >>>> Indeed!
> >>>> And it was one of the few things he wasn't very good at.
> >>>> If it is 'Kirk'... Well, it is /not/ the original universe. Even the
> >>>> remastered episodes are /not/ the original universe with those canon
> >>>> changes.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Yet more Fanon. No where was it categorically stated that Kirk had
> >>> never driven a car.
> >>> But then again this is from a woman that can't believe two men can be
> >>> close friends with out being lovers.
> >>
> >> It is based on this scene:
> >> [Honk]
> >> Wheels, Mr. Spock.
> >> A fliwer, Captain.
> >> Key in the ignition. Turn the ignition on ...
> >> and nothing happens. Where's the starter?
> >> There's the starter.
> >> [Engine Starts]
> >> Yes!
> >> Interesting.
> >> [Grinding]
> >> Oops!
> >> Gears.
> >> Yes. Oh ...
> >> I believe they had a device
> >> known as a ... clutch.
> >> Clutch, Captain.
> >> Perhaps one of those pedals on the floor.
> >> I kind of like this.
> >> I'm going to get one myself.
> >> [Crash]
> >> [Backfiring]
> >> [Honk]
> >> Captain, you are an excellent starship commander.
> >> But as a taxi driver,
> >> you leave much to be desired.
> >>
> >> From this conversation between Kirk and Spock I think it is clear that
> >> driving a car (at least with a hand controled transmission) is not
> >> something Kirk experienced before.
> >
> >
> > Put most people in a "vintage" car today that have only driven modern
> > vehicles and see how well they do, especially if they have never driven
> > stick.
>
> Yes but once it's started, they know how to steer the thing. Kirk didn't.
> And he didn't know about pedals which *any* car has.
>
> Gisele
>

Yep. Kirk doesn't know what a clutch is, or to try the pedals. Of
course, there was a flirtation with cars that had all the controls on
the steering wheel . . .

--
Star Trek 09:

No Shat, No Show.
http://www.disneysub.com/board/noshat.jpg

While intrepidly exploring the bowels of USENET on Friday, April 11,
2008, Anim8rFSK rolled initiative and posted the following:

> In article <1524a0wwhbb5y$.dlg@gwinn.us>, Derek <news@gwinn.us> wrote:
>
>> While intrepidly exploring the bowels of USENET on Friday, April 11,
>> 2008, bc_gisele rolled initiative and posted the following:
>>
>>> "Kweeg" <kweeg@nospam.shaw.ca> wrote in news:oYuLj.41276$Cj7.31720
>>> @pd7urf2no:
>>>
>>>> "Wouter Valentijn" <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote in message
>>>> news:47fe77d9$0$14357$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
>>>>> Kweeg wrote:
>>>>>> "Wouter Valentijn" <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:47fe5238$0$14358$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
>>>>>>> ToolPackinMama wrote:
>>>>>>>> Steven L. wrote:
>>>>>>>>> TrekMovie says their spies have spotted a 1960s red Corvette
>>>>>>>>> convertible in the location shoot that is likely being used for the
>>>>>>>>> film, but it's not quite clear how that would tie into scenes being
>>>>>>>>> shot there.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It better not be Kirk's because he never drove a car until Piece Of
>>>>>>>> The Action.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Indeed!
>>>>>>> And it was one of the few things he wasn't very good at.
>>>>>>> If it is 'Kirk'... Well, it is /not/ the original universe. Even the
>>>>>>> remastered episodes are /not/ the original universe with those canon
>>>>>>> changes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yet more Fanon. No where was it categorically stated that Kirk had
>>>>>> never driven a car.
>>>>>> But then again this is from a woman that can't believe two men can be
>>>>>> close friends with out being lovers.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is based on this scene:
>>>>> [Honk]
>>>>> Wheels, Mr. Spock.
>>>>> A fliwer, Captain.
>>>>> Key in the ignition. Turn the ignition on ...
>>>>> and nothing happens. Where's the starter?
>>>>> There's the starter.
>>>>> [Engine Starts]
>>>>> Yes!
>>>>> Interesting.
>>>>> [Grinding]
>>>>> Oops!
>>>>> Gears.
>>>>> Yes. Oh ...
>>>>> I believe they had a device
>>>>> known as a ... clutch.
>>>>> Clutch, Captain.
>>>>> Perhaps one of those pedals on the floor.
>>>>> I kind of like this.
>>>>> I'm going to get one myself.
>>>>> [Crash]
>>>>> [Backfiring]
>>>>> [Honk]
>>>>> Captain, you are an excellent starship commander.
>>>>> But as a taxi driver,
>>>>> you leave much to be desired.
>>>>>
>>>>> From this conversation between Kirk and Spock I think it is clear that
>>>>> driving a car (at least with a hand controled transmission) is not
>>>>> something Kirk experienced before.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Put most people in a "vintage" car today that have only driven modern
>>>> vehicles and see how well they do, especially if they have never driven
>>>> stick.
>>>
>>> Yes but once it's started, they know how to steer the thing. Kirk didn't.
>>> And he didn't know about pedals which *any* car has.
>>>
>>> Gisele
>>
>> A) He did know how to steer the thing, he was distracted by the clutch
>> and the gear shift. Watch novice stick-shift drivers. They do the same
>> thing.
>>
>> B) He knew about the pedals. He forgot about the clutch. As I recall,
>> he and Spock both said the word at or about the same time.
>
> You recall incorrectly. Spock tells him the word clutch, twice. Kirk
> doesn't say it at all.

Ah, well. I can accept that.

--
Derek

Molecular physicists are in on chains.

While intrepidly exploring the bowels of USENET on Friday, April 11,
2008, Anim8rFSK rolled initiative and posted the following:

> In article <5zz15uwopn60$.dlg@gwinn.us>, Derek <news@gwinn.us> wrote:
>
>> While intrepidly exploring the bowels of USENET on Friday, April 11,
>> 2008, bc_gisele rolled initiative and posted the following:
>>
>>> "Kweeg" <kweeg@nospam.shaw.ca> wrote in
>>> news:IeyLj.40225$rd2.7319@pd7urf3no:
>>>
>>>> "Derek" <news@gwinn.us> wrote in message
>>>> news:1esuxtgutumrh$.dlg@gwinn.us...
>>>>> While intrepidly exploring the bowels of USENET on Thursday, April
>>>>> 10, 2008, ToolPackinMama rolled initiative and posted the following:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Kweeg wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yet more Fanon. No where was it categorically stated that Kirk had
>>>>>>> never driven a car.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Have you SEEN "A piece of the action"? Do you remember the scene
>>>>>> where he drove?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wheels, Mr. Spock.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A flivver, Captain.
>>>>>> Key in the ignition. Turn the ignition on ...
>>>>>> and nothing happens. Where's the starter? There's the
>>>>>> starter.[Engine Starts] Yes!
>>>>>
>>>>> Clearly demonstrating that he knew that if a car didn't start when
>>>>> you turned the key that you had to look for a starter button/switch.
>>>>>
>>>>> How many drivers today do you think would know to look for a starter?
>>>>>
>>>>>> Interesting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [Grinding]
>>>>>>
>>>&