Your thoughts?

I don't understand, frankly, why anybody would really want to vote for McCain. I can see voting for him because you're so opposed to Obama's policies... I can see voting for him because you believe fervently in continuing the Bush legacy. I can even see voting for McCain because you're a stone-cold racist or a small minded bigot or whatever -- that's one of the downsides to living in a democracy.

What I don't see is how someone could really be excited to be voting for McCain. He seems like like a brittle, phony, doddering old man.

... What I don't see is how someone could really be excited to be voting for McCain. He seems like like a brittle, phony, doddering old man.It's the game of US politics. People are excited for McCain not because of him personally or for even his campaign promises that he is stumping but rather for the fact that he is the "Republican" candidate. The US political system is so broken down that it has come down to which party can get the larger number of its members to vote. And, as we saw in 2000, if the number of votes are pretty close then it becomes a matter of which party controls the decision makers in the voting process.

McCain selecting Palin as a running mate is one of the most bizarre things in recent politics but it doesn't really matter because the "true" Republicans will vote for the ticket and smile while doing it.

It is time for a change but unless something radical happens then we are doomed to futility.

Kevin, that's sort of my point. I don't know how many people are actually going to vote for McCain -- most of the people who flip that lever will just be casting their vote for the Republican candidate du jour, and not for McCain specifically.

One thing that has amazed me about this presidential campaign is how little substance there really is behind the GOP ticket. Every campaign and candidate lies, of course, but the McCain team seems to be extraordinarily shameless about it. They keep tossing out lines that are patently empty and beyond any framework of truth -- "McCain is a renegade, a maverick! Palin has plenty of experience! The Democrats are the ones that have made gas prices skyrocket, caused the mortgage crisis and put our country trillions of dollars into debt!" -- and people seem to be blithely accepting them.

Then again... when I was watching football this Sunday (go Panthers!), I saw several Budweiser commercials... and they all talked about how great this beer was, the barley and the hops, beechwood aging, etc. And it all sounded good until I remembered that Budweiser actually tastes like crap. So is the lack of substance behind the McCain/Palin message just a logical outgrowth of the whole "Budweiser, king of beers" phenomenon?

So is the lack of substance behind the McCain/Palin message just a logical outgrowth of the whole "Budweiser, king of beers" phenomenon?With the McCain ticket, I believe that the emptiness is not necessarily a reflection of our current society but rather with the fact that McCain will say & do anything to be POTUS. His stance on issues changes with whatever group he is talking to to the point where anything he says is just fluff.

Ever watch a movie or TV show where the gag is that a political debate can be won by answering every question with a statement that really doesn't say anything? That is McCain.

Now don't get me wrong... I am not exactly a card carrying Democrat that is wholly behind Obama/Biden either. When it comes to US elections the voting process usually comes down to the lesser of two evils and sometimes that is a hard choice. This year the lesser choice should be pretty apparent to most people.

Wanted to relate this story. Emblematic of the strange times we live in.

I'm sitting in a Chick-Fil-A in Winston-Salem, NC. A guy is sitting with his kid (or grandkid) right behind me. The guy is white haired, thin, balding; the son is maybe ten or eleven years old. They don't know that I'm listening in.

DAD: Looks like the Chinese are going to buy out Morgan Stanley.
KID: Who's that?
DAD: It's like the last investment bank left in America. The Chinese pretty much own America at this point.
KID: How can they own America?
DAD: They just do. And the funny thing is, they're communist. We won the Cold War, and they still own most of our economy.
KID: Why is that?

(Here I brace myself for the Sean-Hannity-esque diatribe about how Democrats and liberals have sold out this country.)

DAD: It's all because of the Republicans. It's the mess made by Reagan-Bush-Bush. They're all corrupt, and they've ruined this country.
SON: Ronald Reagan? I read about him in school...
DAD: Well, he was the worst of all. Just about wrecked all the social programs in this country, drove up our deficits that kids like you will someday have to pay back...

And so on, and so forth. I am so used to hearing the traditional right-wing rant in this most red of states that I live in... it threw me to suddenly hear the same kind of venom, of vitriol, being expressed about the other side.

In similar news... America is finally waking up and realizing that we're in too much of a muck to continue going down the same old path with the same old people. I'm getting more and more optimistic that, this time, maybe things will really change.

Looking back at the campaign up to now, did anyone think it would be as close as its' been recently.......if anything, there's been surprise after surprise this election cycle.......for instance:
(1)did anyone this time last year think either McCain OR Obama would be their parties' respective candidates?
(2)McCain picking of Sarah Palin as his VP was IMO a bold but risky gamechanger.....bold in that he's essentially offering an olive branch to women voters(especially those who voted for Hillary in the Democratic primaries), but risky in that it could undercut his attacks' on Obama's supposed inexperience
(3)considering that its' been a horrid 2 years for the GOP since the 2006 Congressional elections, its' it weird that the Democrats aren't way ahead of the Republicans at the moment
(4)remember all the talk from the Democrats about how they wanted to remake the electoral map and try capturing some traditionally "red" states such as North Carolina, for instance? Unless the polls change radically prior to Election Day, it looks as though we'll still be sweating out who wins Ohio, Florida, etc....


Is it just me, or is this going be another one of those close, we-won't-know-who-won-til'-morning type elections? :eek::eek::eek::eek:

I can't see how it matters much. The days of having a "hero" like Alexander in your army are long over, if they really did exist.
Yet this is Sci-Fi :wink:
The powers that be preach how one person can make a difference, but the truth of the matter is diametrically opposite. One you are.
You make the difference, so don't tie either your life or happiness to another.
Adapt baby!
Unless you want the job, in which case that could be used as evidence against you for being "Nuts".

And yet, what company doesn't shiver with the excitement of the hire of a new CEO, one who will turn the company around, boost stock prices and make everything better? What sports fan doesn't feel like his team could win the world championship, if only they had this coach or that coach, or if only they could add that one more player? What parent doesn't feel that their child is an honor student, unrecognized and under appreciated by their imbecile of a teacher, and if only they could get in a new classroom, a new school, suddenly everything would be better???

The idea that we can't possibly pull it around seems hopelessly pessimistic. Yes, the situation right now is dire -- our economy is on the brink of collapse, we are massively in debt, the rest of the world totters in their affection for us between loathing and indifference, and our government reeks of incompetence and corruption. But remember that this wasn't always the case. Eight years ago, we had a balanced budget with a $600 billion surplus, gas was $1.59 a gallon, we had brokered peace deals in Ireland, the Middle East and North Korea, and we were cutting down the size of our government while simultaneously making it more effective and efficient. Sure, things look bad, but if we could fall into a hole this deep in just eight short years, who's to say we couldn't pull ourselves right back out again? We're like a football team going in at halftime down 35-0. Sure, it's a big deficit, but if the other side could score 35 points in a half, so can we, and with the right QB, the right coaching, maybe we could score 36 points and actually win the game.

So yeah, I'm an optimist, but I'm also a realist. The United States is standing on a steep precipice right now, no question about it. If we keep heading in the direction we're heading -- and I'm sorry, but that's essentially what the McCain campaign is guaranteeing us we will do -- then we're going to collapse as a superpower, and begin the long fall down to irrelevance. I do believe that one person, one leader, can right this ship -- I do believe that what we need right now, more than anything, is competence and inspiration, two qualities that I believe that Barack Obama personifies more than anyone else.

Hope & change are two drugs the pusher sells for the dealer. Opiates to placate the masses.
We need many things, but false hope isn't one of them. We're over extended trying to do everything at once. Feed the world, Police the world, (both with no gratitude), and dictate policy through force if necessary, practice ultimate greed in office (corporate & Government) and then "hit the silk" in a Golden Parachute.
More of the same (with sugary rhetoric), is more of the same.
Rezko in Chicago, Reverend Wright, and a "Siamese" attachment to a mainstream party (of the same kind of crooks, with a different handle) Teddy/Hillary (both with blood on their hands, Mary Jo, & Vince) with Hollywood money. Another deadly circus.
The "Greens" ... a joke.
"There aint a dimes difference between a Republican and a Democrat" George Wallace
Libertarian ... if change is what you really want.

A lone hero (without being a "Toadie" to many) in this (Political) system? Better chance finding a Unicorn.

If you wanna see me do my thing, baby pull my string ... (Puppet Man -by- Tom Jones)

I don't think anyone is selling false hope. (I think the McCain campaign is selling false change, but that's a separate rant.) The question is, how do you approach a bad situation? Do you throw up your hands, or do you roll up your sleeves?

I think America is still a great country, even with the damage done over the past eight years. We still have tremendous potential, but we need to really get our priorities in order -- we need to invest billions of dollars here at home on broadband access, clean fusion energy, a revamped educational system, etc., instead of throwing good money after bad in Iraq, in bailing out billionaires, in tax cuts for the Sam Waltons of the world.

I don't wish to get into a P-----g contest, but here are some facts about this fella and his policies.
Body count
In the last six months 263 killed (murdered mostly with guns) in Chicago. (having one of the strictest gun control laws in America), 221 killed in Iraq.
State pension fund for Illinois $44 Billion in debt.
Cook County sales tax 10.25%, highest in the country.
Chicago & Illinois school system: Third most expensive per child after New York & California,
Top 100 (lower the number the better) ... not there
bottom 100 (higher the number the worse) ... 98, 92, 91, 87, 85, 81, 69, 62, 40
Illinois & Chicago
Senators Barrack Obama & Dick Durbin
Representative Jesse Jackson Jr.
Governor Rod Blogojevich
State House Leader Mike Madigan
Attorney General Lisa Madigan (daughter)
Mayor Richard Daley Jr ... All Democrats

Do you judge people by their record?
The way they keep their own house? ... most do.

I'm self sufficient and a survivor.
Politics is BS
Bush is a dolt, but Obama ... is not the "Messiah"

:rotflmao:

http://www.tsgnet.com/pres.php?id=46832&altf=Dppm&altl=Tdj-Gj

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

http://www.tsgnet.com/pres.php?id=46832&altf=Dppm&altl=Tdj-Gj

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:


Well, there's one endorsement.......... :eek: :eek: :eek: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :eek: :flee:

Well, it looks like that when if McCain loses the election, that it will be Palin who will be the designated sacrifice.

From CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/25/palin.tension/index.html):Palin's 'going rogue,' McCain aide says

With 10 days until Election Day, long-brewing tensions between GOP vice presidential candidate Gov. Sarah Palin and key aides to Sen. John McCain have become so intense, they are spilling out in public, sources say.

Several McCain advisers have suggested to CNN that they have become increasingly frustrated with what one aide described as Palin "going rogue."

A Palin associate, however, said the candidate is simply trying to "bust free" of what she believes was a damaging and mismanaged roll-out.

McCain sources say Palin has gone off-message several times, and they privately wonder whether the incidents were deliberate. They cited an instance in which she labeled robocalls -- recorded messages often used to attack a candidate's opponent -- "irritating" even as the campaign defended their use. Also, they pointed to her telling reporters she disagreed with the campaign's decision to pull out of Michigan.

A second McCain source says she appears to be looking out for herself more than the McCain campaign.

"She is a diva. She takes no advice from anyone," said this McCain adviser. "She does not have any relationships of trust with any of us, her family or anyone else. Also, she is playing for her own future and sees herself as the next leader of the party. Remember: Divas trust only unto themselves, as they see themselves as the beginning and end of all wisdom."

A Palin associate defended her, saying that she is "not good at process questions" and that her comments on Michigan and the robocalls were answers to process questions.

...

"Her lack of fundamental understanding of some key issues was dramatic," said another McCain source with direct knowledge of the process to prepare Palin after she was picked. The source said it was probably the "hardest" to get her "up to speed than any candidate in history."


...

I know McCain said Americans wouldn't pick lettuce (all season in Arizona) for 50 dollars an hour.
Rubbish
All I know or who have ever met would, except for a handful ...

$100,000 a year? I'm there ... working overtime.

Absolutely clueless, the both of them. New Feudalism,

Your "Choice" is as to whether what is pre-picked for you is either ...
1. Really really great, or
2. Super-duper great.

Love a choice that was never really yours to make, now that's SciFi.

To the original point/discussion, don't get too excited over either. the world will turn anyway, and what will "change" will fit on the head of a pin.

Lesser of two "chosen for you" evils is ... lose-lose.

Well, it looks like that when if McCain loses the election, that it will be Palin who will be the designated sacrifice.

From CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/25/palin.tension/index.html):
Sacrifice? No... I honestly think that the kook-wing of the Republican Party believes that Sarah Palin represents their best chance in 2012.

:eek:

McCain is their sacrifice, their Bob Dole, the GOP version of Walter Mondale. In a year when everything is stacked against you, run the wooden old party guy, as a reward for his faithful service, with no expectation of winning.

Sacrifice? No... I honestly think that the kook-wing of the Republican Party believes that Sarah Palin represents their best chance in 2012.

:eek:

McCain is their sacrifice, their Bob Dole, the GOP version of Walter Mondale. In a year when everything is stacked against you, run the wooden old party guy, as a reward for his faithful service, with no expectation of winning.If anybody thinks that Palin actually has the slimmest of chances of carrying the ticket in 2012 then they have been smoking a bit too much peyote.
:flee:

Carter had Billy. George Junior had Jeb. Clinton had Roger. McCain has Joe.

Did John McCain's Brother Make 911 Call About Traffic? (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/10/report-john-mcc.html)

Angry because he was stuck in traffic, a man named Joe McCain -- possibly the brother of the presidential candidate -- placed a call earlier in the week to 911 emergency, ABC News affiliate, WJLA, reports.

The October 21 call went to the city of Alexandria, Virginia emergency operations. This is the transcript of the call:Operator: 911 state your emergency
Caller: It's not an emergency but do you know why on one side at the damn drawbridge of 95 traffic is stopped for 15 minutes and yet traffic's coming the other way?
Operator: Sir, are you calling 911 to complain about traffic? (pause)
Caller: "(Expletive) you." (caller hangs up)
The 911 operator, apparently, unnerved by use of the 911 emergency number to complain about bad traffic, called back the phone number that placed the call.
The operator reached a voice mail message that said, "Hi this is Joe McCain I can't take this message now because I'm involved in a very (inaudible) important political project... I hope on Nov. 4th we have elected John."
Outraged by the operator's action, the man called 911 a second time. That conversation went as follows:Caller: Somebody gave me this riot act about the violation of police.
Operator: Did you just call 911 in reference to this?
Caller: Yeah.
Operator: 911 is to be used for emergencies only, not just because you're sitting in traffic.
WJLA reports that the McCain campaign would not comment.

Well, it looks like that when if McCain loses the election, that it will be Palin who will be the designated sacrifice.

From CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/25/palin.tension/index.html):


I think I said this in an earlier post, but I felt McCain's pick of Palin as his VP was a bold, yet risky game-changing decision......looks like its' not helping him one bit; I'm wondering......did the McCain campaign even bother vetting Palin before they tapped her as the VP nominee? :eek::eek::eek::eek:

Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.
Unfortunately, only then will you see whether it's lives up to the hype.

The 911 thing is funny. We all know those "operators" are beyond reproach.
There's a recent story (as well) where one of these operators told a caller (who was in mortal danger) to write her Social Security number on her arm, so the Police could identify the correct body, when they got there.
Thanks bunches ... 911 ... what would we do without you? Um ... same thing?
Tax money well spent.
Yes, spend more, so more than one can tell you that (from a safe distance).
More & more (the Democrat way) is not better.
Improve what you/we have.
Just adding to it is a "Placebo" A feel good ... nothing but worse change.

On the bright side, after this term we may never see a Democrat again, and the newspapers/media will have laughing targets for a lifetime.

Welcome to "Hooverville" ;)

I think I said this in an earlier post, but I felt McCain's pick of Palin as his VP was a bold, yet risky game-changing decision......looks like its' not helping him one bit; I'm wondering......did the McCain campaign even bother vetting Palin before they tapped her as the VP nominee? :eek::eek::eek::eek:My money has always been on Palin being picked soley as a knee-jerk reaction to the then popularity of Hillary Clinton in the polls & with her road show audiences. Obama's choice, Biden, is obviously a bit more experienced but his selection I feel has more to do with trying to appease the border-line conseratives than anything else. Biden has stumbled a bit as well but it would be interesting to find out if the DNC is also paying for his clothes while on the road. ;)

The 911 thing is funny. We all know those "operators" are beyond reproach.
There's a recent story (as well) where one of these operators told a caller (who was in mortal danger) to write her Social Security number on her arm, so the Police could identify the correct body, when they got there.
Thanks bunches ... 911 ... what would we do without you? Um ... same thing?
Tax money well spent.So because some 911 operators are bad at their job it is OK then to call them for traffic issues? The two have nothing to do with each other. Nothing. That is just a classic case of deflecting the subject to a different matter to avoid the actual topic.

Of course not, 911 is for emergencies only, and they should respond in kind ... urgently. Not pathetically, ignorantly.
The McCain incident is typical of what either the privileged/stupid (both) consider an emergency. Anything that has to do with them.
He should be charged for the total cost of mobilizing Police, EMT, and Fire crews, from the time they were activated until the time they were back in place at whatever rate they wish to charge, as should any other abuser of a life/property, tax-payer funded, Rescue system.
Royal privilege? Immunity? ... my A$$.
Hence lies most of the problems we have today. Helplessness, dependent on others/a system, not just for their life, but for their comfort & joy.
Many think someone/anyone "owes" them more than what they have or are getting. It's all THEIRfault (happiness/comfort/life) someone/anyone else's, duty, job, to make sure you're in Nirvana 24/7.

Whiners! (with immunity)

Neither candidate is worth spit. In case I didn't get my opinion on the topic across.
Chosen for you to choose from (like it's your idea), both totally in the tank, to Party lines & special interests, big business, and campaign contributors.
We'd be better off to fire every Politician immediately and replace them by picking every thousandth name out of the phone book (go around again for small towns) of their area. You want "Change"? There it is, real change from the professional crooks to real people.

... and it is over.

One way or another, history was going to be made last night. Either the first non-caucasian was going to be elected POTUS or the eldest person + the first female VP were going to be elected.

We can look back in about 3 years (when the 2012 campaigns start kicking into gear <sigh>) to see if the majority of the US & the rest of the world made the right choice.

Looks like my prediction of Palin bearing the brunt, or at least some of it, for losing the election was spot on.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/167581/page/1 (interesting article, you should read the whole thing)

...

NEWSWEEK has also learned that Palin's shopping spree at high-end department stores was more extensive than previously reported. While publicly supporting Palin, McCain's top advisers privately fumed at what they regarded as her outrageous profligacy. One senior aide said that Nicolle Wallace had told Palin to buy three suits for the convention and hire a stylist. But instead, the vice presidential nominee began buying for herself and her family—clothes and accessories from top stores such as Saks Fifth Avenue and Neiman Marcus. According to two knowledgeable sources, a vast majority of the clothes were bought by a wealthy donor, who was shocked when he got the bill. Palin also used low-level staffers to buy some of the clothes on their credit cards. The McCain campaign found out last week when the aides sought reimbursement. One aide estimated that she spent "tens of thousands" more than the reported $150,000, and that $20,000 to $40,000 went to buy clothes for her husband. Some articles of clothing have apparently been lost. An angry aide characterized the shopping spree as "Wasilla hillbillies looting Neiman Marcus from coast to coast," and said the truth will eventually come out when the Republican Party audits its books.

A Palin aide said: "Governor Palin was not directing staffers to put anything on their personal credit cards, and anything that staffers put on their credit cards has been reimbursed, like an expense. Nasty and false accusations following a defeat say more about the person who made them than they do about Governor Palin."

McCain himself rarely spoke to Palin during the campaign, and aides kept him in the dark about the details of her spending on clothes because they were sure he would be offended. Palin asked to speak along with McCain at his Arizona concession speech Tuesday night, but campaign strategist Steve Schmidt vetoed the request.

...

Palin launched her attack on Obama's association with William Ayers, the former Weather Underground bomber, before the campaign had finalized a plan to raise the issue. McCain's advisers were working on a strategy that they hoped to unveil the following week, but McCain had not signed off on it, and top adviser Mark Salter was resisting.

...

A lot of people are celebrating right now because America has finally elected a black president. While I'm happy to see this milestone pass in my lifetime -- and I'd had my doubts -- I frankly am even more delighted and amazed that the American people finally looked past the smokescreen of smears and fear and innuendo and political stunts, and truly elected a president based on the issues.

A lot of people are celebrating right now because America has finally elected a black president. While I'm happy to see this milestone pass in my lifetime -- and I'd had my doubts -- I frankly am even more delighted and amazed that the American people finally looked past the smokescreen of smears and fear and innuendo and political stunts, and truly elected a president based on the issues.I think the biggest test is just starting. For some, yes, their decision was based on race alone, sad to say, but I truly feel that the majority of those who voted for Obama voted with their minds instead of campaign party allegiance. Essentially the Obama campaign said to the citizens of the US "This country needs a change and we believe Barack Obama can do that. Are you willing to take action by voting and taking a chance?" and the the US collectively replied with an "OK" quite loudly.

What happens in the next year may be some of the most critical times for our country. The US is on the borderline of several explosive issues that, with a slight tip to either side, could either help the US once again become the leader of the free world or will forever relegate the US as beings the world's *former* top super power. That is not rhetoric... what is happening in our country is just a glimpse at what is going on with how the world currently views the US.

For those interested in politics, take a look at the Obama-Biden Transition Team's web site...

http://change.gov/

Whether you're for or against Obama, there are some very useful links on the site. In particular, check out this site...

http://directory.presidentialtransition.gov/